Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Breaking Barriers in Taekwondo: Grandmaster Gerard Robbins' Historic Journey and Lasting Legacy
Step into the storied halls of Madison Square Garden and relive the glory days where martial arts legends like Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee became household names. Grandmaster Robbins takes us through the exhilarating experience of competing in this iconic venue, the camaraderie among fighters, and the challenges of those early tournaments. We also travel back to the second World Taekwondo Championships in Korea, highlighting the cultural and competitive differences that made the event unforgettable. Hear firsthand accounts that bring these historic moments to life, illustrating the resilience and dedication required to excel in such a prestigious arena.
In this episode, we also tackle the evolution of Taekwondo, from the impact of electronic scoring systems to the establishment of the Taekwondo Hall of Fame. Grandmaster Robbins shares his thoughts on preserving the sport’s rich history and the importance of proper referee training to maintain fairness in competitions. We close with reflections on memorable matches and the life lessons Taekwondo imparts, emphasizing the indomitable spirit and perseverance that martial arts instill in its practitioners. Don't miss this inspiring episode that celebrates the legacy and ongoing influence of Taekwondo through the eyes of a true pioneer.
Welcome to the Masters Alliance podcast, Uncut. And I'm Herb Perez. In every podcast we try to bring you someone who is not only interesting but very important to what we do as martial artists, and especially in the Olympic sport of Taekwondo. And today is no exception. We are joined by Grandmaster Gerard Robbins, who is a ninth-degree black belt and the first person of African descent to receive that honor. His instructor was one of the most famous people in the history of our sport, Don Kumpar. He has won and competed in virtually every form that our sport allows, including the 1988 National Championships for the Olympic team drawings. His passion caused him to create and become the director of the Taekwondo Hall of Fame, which recognizes the best martial artists in our sport across the world. Strap in, take a seat and listen to this amazing conversation.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Masters of Reliance podcast, uncut. And today we're joined by one of my seniors and certainly someone that I looked up to as I grew up, because I was fortunate enough to grow up in one of the best places, in my opinion, to learn taekwondo and some of the best people, and he was fortunate as I was, because we eventually ended up with two of the best instructors in that area, but, more importantly, I got to watch him fight at Madison Square Garden, amongst other places, against the best of the best. Today we are joined by an inspirational and amazing individual Master, Grandmaster Robbins. How are you today, sir?
Speaker 2:Fantastic. It's an honor to be here and I appreciate the fact that you allow me to communicate with the people of all your fantastic podcast podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, you are entirely too kind and I want to start with. You have an amazing and an impressive list of accomplishments, but I wonder if you could tell us more about the journey that led you to become the first person of African descent to receive a ninth on a taekwondo from South Korea, and what unique challenges and triumphs did you experience along the way?
Speaker 2:Sure, but before we talk about that I want to give you a little bit of my background. I actually started in Japanese-style karate in the 60s. My instructor at that time was Bill Adams and he wasn't really into competition as much but he's a great instructor. He taught mainly self-defense. It was around 1971 that I had met my instructor Duncan Park. I'd seen him do a demonstration in New York the Richard Trans Tournament this man was. He flew. It was unbelievable. He flew over six, seven people and broke boards. I mean his skill was just amazing. So I walked up to him and I said, sir, I mean I really would like to join your school and he did have a price at the time. But by that time I was already a black belt and I'd competed.
Speaker 2:In fact, when I had seen him, I was competing in Richard Chun's tournament in the breaking division and this little short guy walks up in the breaking division and an African-American and he jumps up the breaking division and an African-American and he jumps up. He's like floating there like eight feet in the air and he throws an unbelievable double kick and he wins the competition. I had done a spinning kick and I thought I had won the event. That man was Joseph Hayes and he amazed me, and so I. So, master Park, I spoke with him. He said, sir, I saw you do that kick. I think you should come to my school. You can really learn more about Taekwondo. And that's how it started. And when I went to his school I told him, sir, I was a kid. I said I really can't afford it. And he said don't worry, don't worry about it, you just train hard.
Speaker 2:So that was my actual beginning in Taekwondo and that Go ahead, sir taekwondo and that and then go ahead, sir, yeah, so uh, I, I would imagine, uh, I guess it was around 19 oh 72 I really began competing in black belt in the taekwondo circuit and, um, what he, the things he had taught me had elevated my skills so much, so much more, that by only three years later I ended up competing in the world championships after winning a national championships in New Haven, connecticut. I mean, it's just an amazing journey. Beginning with Master Park, we went to the world championships in 1975, but let me back up a little bit. In 1973, there was another world championship and it was in Texas and I believe it was a one-day event and the competitors there were Joseph Hayes, michael Warren and Albert Cheeks. They qualified for that first team, they went to Korea and they I mean they just did a fantastic job. I spoke to Richard Chern about that. He said the match with Michael Warren and the final Korean was no match.
Speaker 2:But that first team, the second team okay, which I was on, you have to remember, and I'm sure you know already, in 1974, united States Taekwondo Union was formed, which turned into the AAU Taekwondo, was later called the AAU Taekwondo, and that was such a significant team and I consider it to be the first official team because in 75, the first time the United States was brought into the World Taekwondo Federation as a member and that was the first time that United States was organized on a national level and we had regional events throughout the country. So that team was comprised of people who competed in regional events and that's why I consider it the actual official Taekwondo team and that's why I consider it the actual official Taekwondo team.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. No, go ahead, sir. I'm sorry. Yeah, so you're referring to what does it feel like to be the first African-American night band? I respect, first of all, all schools, all bands, whether it's Muda Kwan, jida Kwan I just happen to be Jida Kwan. I highly respect Kuki Wan, and what Kuki Wan did in the beginning to organize and standardize the rules was fantastic. But what's special about my ninth dance is that the people who signed my certificates, for instance, my eighth dance certificate was signed by Chung Woo Lee, and Chung Woo Lee was the person in Korea who actually formulated the World Taekwondo Federation. As you know, I'm speaking to the choir, I'm sure my ninth, then, was signed by Sung Won Lee, who was a member of the National Korean Team back in the 60s. So it wasn't so much the fact that the band came from korea that was important, but the people who awarded the dam. That's what made it very special and that's a, that's a.
Speaker 1:Those are certainly, I mean, the most important people in taekwondo. And, and having met uh yi jung woo, he was arguably the architect of modern sport, of Taekwondo and its competition rules, and uh he's. He's left us the, but before he left, you know, he had much to say about where we were headed and what we're doing, but you've done something equally as impressive. The Taekwondo hall of fame is a Testament to your dedication to our sport. Could you share the story behind its founding and and, and what inspired you to create this institution? What do you hope for its future?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, let's go back to 2003. Well, actually 1998, because of the people I'd met and what I had seen competing, I decided to put those players and pioneers in a website which I call the Taekwondo Hall of Fame, which is taekwondohalloffamecom. That's the website. My first ceremony was in 2007. But in 2003, I had a meeting of all the champions of the All-American in Madison Square Garden and I spoke to Greg Fierce, mike Warren, albert Cheeks, and the idea was let's do something to remember everyone that competed all over the globe, not just in the United States, and I had seen over the years that there were so many people that contributed so much in different countries that were unknown Champions, pioneers, countries that were unknown Champions, pioneers, and that's basically what began my journey into creating the Taekwondo Hall of Fame, which I had trademarked at that time, actually in 2006., and my first ceremony was actually in 2007. That first ceremony brought most of the original pioneers together. June Ri, who brought Taekwondo to the United States, was my keynote speaker. Mitchell Bob Rau, who had won the All-American, just as you had, he was my chairman. He was my honorary chairman. We had CK Choi Sangmin Cho, of course, my instructor, duncan Park, ricky Ha from Great Britain, many of the original pioneers. Then we had the United States team Albert Cheeks, michael Warren, let's see, fred Absher was on the team, jim Butin. So that was really the beginning and I think that's what gave us the credibility to go further into creating the Taekwondo Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2:So how can I put it? I would say a A major event was 2011, when I actually contacted the Kukyuan in Korea, the world headquarters, and I'd written them and asked them if I could give a ceremony there. They agreed. One of the biggest problems I had was the communication and language, but I had a representative, al Cole, travel to Korea and make the initial connections. So we had that ceremony August 25th in 2011. Absolutely amazing. I mean hit all the newspapers in Korea and from there we just seemed to grow. That's where we continue to get more credibility after that event in South.
Speaker 1:Korea. Well, you mentioned the All-American and for those that I mean we all know what it is, but for those that are uninitiated in what it was, it was the largest event competitively where everybody from anywhere in any martial art could compete. And you would compete in the hallways if you were an underbelt and people would watch from the outside, and then you'd gradually make your way closer to the arena and then eventually you get to fight in the hallways if you were an underbelt and people would watch from the outside, and then you'd gradually make your way closer to the arena and then eventually you get to fight in the ring in the center of Madison Square Garden. Competing at Madison Square Garden is a dream for many athletes. Could you describe the atmosphere and the emotions you felt while you were participating at the All-American?
Speaker 2:What a great question you felt while you were participating at the All-American. What a great question. First of all, the Madison Square Garden, where the All-American was held, is considered and is the mecca of sports. I mean Muhammad Ali, joe Freezer, the Knicks, the greatest hockey teams I mean it was the mecca. I mean, in New York, just walking into the garden just to be able to compete in that arena, I mean I would get off the subway and I look up and here's the felt form. It's just, you know, it's really hard to describe, but, as you said, you know we competed on hardwood floors in the beginning and it was a little overwhelming the first couple of times I competed there. You know, I mean we had some of the greatest players that had fought in the garden. Chuck Norris actually met Bruce Lee there in 67. Chuck Norris fought there. Mitchell, bob Brown, byung-yoo, pat Worley, joseph Hayes, james Robert, jeff Smith, albert Cheeks, michael Warren, daniel Richer from Canada, William Oliver Just an amazing, just an amazing tournament.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes I talk to people about the tournament itself and the majority of the winners are actually from your school, your instructor's school, and Keewon Kim in Washington DC. You know, I mean I think Mark Williams won it five times. Jimmy Roberts won like 12 times in forms. You won Keith Kelly won. Ricky Feist backs from Washington DC. So I refer to that period of time because the majority of people won that tournament. The Kim the Kim Dynasty. It's an incredible time, but I really enjoyed meeting all the players won. That tournament is the kim the kim dynasty. You know it's incredible time, but uh, I, I really enjoyed, uh uh, meeting all the players and the thing about the garden also. You had everybody there. You had kung fu fighters, karate fighters, you had a good mixture of of people. We talk about trembling shock a little bit several years later. Okay, uh, but there was trembling shock there without chance protectors. I mean, it was tough. You had to block, you had to be on your top game. But just to compete in the Garden, just to say you competed in the Garden, was a wonderful thing, it was a privilege, I mean, and even today, I mean as a matter of fact, in 2003, we gave a reunion after so many years and it was a thrill to meet most of those players that competed at that time, in fact, all of the grand champions with the exception of Chuck Norris, and I have a little story about that as well.
Speaker 2:I think Chuck Norris had found out about the All-American reunion in 2003. And he gave me a call. He said, jerry, I understand you're having a reunion of us Grand Champions. I said, yeah. I said I am, can you make it? He said, yes, that's what I'll do. You talk to Henry Cho, see if you can get the videotapes and I'll be there. I'll pick up Alan Steen, I'll pick up Skipper Mullins and we'll land in it and you can pick us all up. I went back to Henry Cho, I explained that to him, but I think they, I think he wanted to pay me or something like that, but in any case, um, uh, it didn't work out because, uh, it just didn't work out. It didn't work out. I think money was a problem and uh, but it was. You know, the event itself was still, was still wonderful because we had most of the champions that were there.
Speaker 1:I remember that story and I, like you, I know the inside details to that and it was probably. It's an. It was a short sighted decision because it would have been a better event with Chuck Norris attending, and I remember you fighting there and watching you compete against some others, including, I think, mark Williams at one point and some of these guys. So it's I always. To be honest, I think that was one of the toughest tournaments that I ever fought in and it's one of the things that I, when I mentioned my career, it's one of the first things I mentioned because of the nature of who you had to fight. First things I mentioned because of the nature of who you had to fight.
Speaker 1:I remember fighting a monkey Kung Fu stylist who was rolling on the floor and jumping up in the air and trying to hit me and stuff. So I had I had uh, luckily, if you grew up in the New York area like you did and I did, um, you got to fight everybody everywhere, from every different style and and in some cases, guys who made up their own styles and came in and fought, but you then went on to listen. We need to talk about it. You competed in the second world taekwondo championships in Korea, and that's a significant achievement. Could you, could you take us back to that time and maybe share some memories of that competition or tell us about how it felt to compete at that level? Us about how it felt to compete at that level.
Speaker 2:You know, coming from, coming from Elizabeth, new Jersey, I had never really gone much further than New York and Pennsylvania. So when I qualified for the team and I was and I traveled to Korea with the team, it was it was a dream. I mean we got off on the plane in Korea and the first thing I remember was the smell. I mean it was all it was. It was all like paddy fields. The Kukkiwon at that time was sitting at the top of the hill. There was nothing there, no buildings. Today, as you know, it's a metropolis and from a hotel room you can see it sitting in the middle. But I get to meet a lot of the international players. I got to see the Korean team.
Speaker 2:I think the major difference at that time from my observation, was they had this stepping. That was the one thing that they had and they had been used to the chest protectors. They didn't use their hands, it was just constant kicking, constant kicking. They were very Let me see how can I put this? You would clash, for instance, and you know how you see people in a tournament. They'd clash, they'd hurt their leg and they'd be walking around. They showed no pain whatsoever, absolutely nothing. And I remember my instructor always telling me very important your spirit, never show any pain. And this was exemplified by the Korean national team At that time. They were coached by Hu-Min Ko and I'm sure you know Hu-Min Ko, a spectacular coach. He had come to our room and that's part of the experience meeting him for the very first time. And so he walks into the room. He's got these bell bottoms on. You remember how he used to dress right and he said you guys think you're good, you think you're going to win this thing, and he started throwing sidekicks. I couldn't believe it. I mean, it was unbelievable, you know.
Speaker 2:But for me, the experience of being in a foreign country for the very first time, coming from Elizabeth, the food, the people, you know, I remember walking down the street and little kids touching my hair, you know, I guess some of them never seen, you know my type of hair, but I watched the competition. I learned a lot. It was what I wasn't used to because, you know, here back in the United States it's usually pointy punching and in fact my first match I kicked most of the time. My second match, I fought Taipei and all he did was kick. So what I had always been trained to do was they kick, they attack, you step in and punch. So probably a lot of points were called because of that. But in any case, it was a wonderful experience being in Korea. The smells, the sights, the food, the people it was just a wonderful experience. It's very hard to describe.
Speaker 1:And that I, you know. Many years later, I went and lived in Korea and trained there and I can remember getting off the plane and the things being like you, you know, young kid from New York, new Jersey, and uh, getting off a plane, not being able to speak the language, trying to figure out the food and then, and training with you know the best of the best and Coey men, grandmaster Coey men, who recently passed away as well, you know, it was just arguably the best coach ever in the history of the sport, between him and and Kim Sayuk. Um who-hyuk was his student, actually, and they were both, at different points, part of the Lee Jung-woo group. But listen, let's get back to you. I mean, you're a trailblazer in taekwondo and you've faced obstacles and challenges, I would imagine. Could you shed some light on any specific difficulties you encountered as a pioneer in the sport and and how did you overcome and what advice would you give to others?
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, in terms of the sport and I can, I can look at the Tech Wonder Hall of Fame, for instance. When I began, people would tell me they are not going to allow you to do it, you're not going to be allowed to do this, it's their sport. That was probably. I just basically ignored it. My instructor always taught me just, you know, have confidence in yourself. You can do whatever it is you want to do. Don't think negatively about anything you want to do, just do it. And so maybe I was a little naive at the time, but so I created the website, I had the ceremonies and for me it's over the years, it's been something that has been good for me. Internally. I've learned a lot that has been good for me. Internally, I've learned a lot. I've learned from other people from all around the world.
Speaker 2:But in terms of difficulties, the primary difficulties, all right, let me go back a little bit. There was actually a precursor to that 1978, I connected with a company called Koonin Travel in Elizabeth, new Jersey, connected with a company called Kunin Travel in Elizabeth, new Jersey, and I tried to bring the very first group of people to Korea from different styles to compete in the Kukuiwan, and you know, at that time there's yellow pages. I mean. So what I would do is I would write, you know, copy the yellow pages, send letters to the instructors, but nothing, I mean no response. At that time it was prior to Facebook. Of course. I would say that was the most difficult part communicating with people on a global scale. Then came Facebook, then came, you know, came, other ways of contacting people. I would say the most.
Speaker 2:The thing that gave me the most success in creating the Hall of Fame was creating a group of how can I put it? National directors. All right, because I didn't know who was who in these other countries. For instance, I had how can I put it? Ruben Ayala, michael Cormac, andreas Grazou from Europe, taimin Ajin from Denmark, momi Koenig, puring Garan from India, sarah Chung from Malaysia. Sarah Chung was one of the greatest players, by the way, in Malaysia. Sarah Chung from Malaysia Sarah Chung was one of the greatest players, by the way, in Malaysia. Oscar Passaro, les Hutchinson, from different countries. That was really the only way I could create the Hall of Fame. The most difficult part was knowing who was who in which country, and I solved that problem by incorporating national directors and continental directors into the program for young people who are inspired by your journey and interested in pursuing Taekwondo.
Speaker 1:What, what words of wisdom and guidance would you offer them, and and what are the essential qualities or values that you believe contributed to your success?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, first of all, if you're talking about young people, particularly kids, I would encourage kids to study Taekwondo for several reasons. One, it develops discipline. As we know, kids are able youth are able to interact with other children, they get awards, they go up their belt levels, different belt levels and other sports that are involved in, let's say, football or soccer. Those are team sports and the main difference in Taekwondo is that you learn seniority, you learn respect. It's the only sport where really you bow, I mean. So that's something that kids really need to learn. When kids learn discipline, they learn how to focus, they have interaction, they train hard. They're able to carry that into their lives. They can transfer that same energy, that same discipline, into every aspect of their lives. They can transfer that same energy, that same discipline, into every aspect of their lives.
Speaker 2:For instance, there's a person by the name of Ron DiPino who's going to be coming to our next ceremony and now he's one of the leading cancer specialists in the country, if not the world. He'll be coming. So he's transferred that determination as a youngster into his life and I know many instances where that's happened. I have students, one student by the name of Christina Barnes who I had when she was maybe five years old. Years later I saw a picture where she was accepted to an Ivy League university on a scholarship. I mean, there's so many examples of how kids have used the discipline that they've learned in Taekwondo to excel in their life, in real life. Give it your entire commitment and don't think about anything negative, and just you know just how can I put it. How can I put it? Just I don't know. You know exactly what I'm talking about. But yeah, the discipline that you learn, transfer that and the hard work that you've done will help you succeed in life.
Speaker 1:So great words of advice. The world of Taekwondo, though, is constantly evolving, and, from your perspective, what are your thoughts on the current state and the future direction of the sport, and are there emerging trends or developments that you find noteworthy or exciting, or the converse, where they're just not doing what they should be doing?
Speaker 2:Well, I look at the sport the way it's displayed now, particularly in the Olympics and World Championships, it's nothing like when we were competing. I remember trembling shock. I remember constant kicking, constant attacks, spinning kicks, wheel kicks. It was much more of an exciting sport. Then came the use of electronic equipment sport. Then came the use of electronic equipment and I think what happened with that is what they tried to do. What I think they tried to do was eliminate unfair judging. All right, I look at it a different way. If you want to eliminate unfair judging, just discipline the referees. You know, keep the sport the way it is. Sure there may be some kicks that can score, that are not seen by a judge, but everybody will have the same advantage and disadvantage if the referees are honest. So now the way it looks if you recruit a team of players that are tall, long legs, teach them how to throw that front kick, front kick, front kick, you know they can become a world champion just with that particular technique alone. And what the audience sees is not really what Taekwondo is. I mean, if you look at the Olympics and you look at every other sport, you look at gymnastics, you look at running gymnastics they have more difficulty in all of their competitions. Runners run faster, jumpers jump higher. Taekwondo just seems just the opposite. Just the opposite because of the electronic equipment. I heard recently that what they intend to do is how can I put it? Refix the or fix the chest protector so that punches can be scored, all right. And what's going to happen if that happens is people are going to just punch, punch, punch, punch, punch. It's going to be the same thing as the front. It's the kick, kick, kick.
Speaker 2:In order to change the sport the way it looks, there has to be a collective effort. You have to train the judges on a different form, you have to change the fighters, you have to change the coaches to do multiple techniques, not just this one kick. I've seen the rules change so many times and still people revert to second nature that front kick, that front kick, that front kick. So no matter how many times you change the rules, it's going to remain the same and it'll be the same thing with the punching. I think someone like you could probably change the situation, and I hope it happens, because Taekwondo can have a beautiful future if those rules are changed. If the judges are in sync with the rules, the players are in sync with the rules. You can go back to trembling shock. I don't see any problem with that, as long as the judges are fair. But the electronic equipment, it seems like it's destroyed for the most part.
Speaker 1:You're correct, sir, and these are words that you know, you and I have shared in different ways with different people. The solution was simple, and it was to fix the referees, who were either inept, which is one problem, or not honest, which is another problem, and both of those things don't resonate with what Taekwondo is supposed to be about, and we'll have another podcast on that which we'll invite you back on. But we had tried to fix it when we were members of the technical committee. Dr Kaepner and I and they have now they've done so much damage to it and other sports experimented with this, and they lost the electronics and went back to just fixing the referees, which was and continues to be the problem, but that's another topic for a longer podcast. The electronics don't work and they've never worked.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just going to say, if you can become an Olympic champion and a world champion with a front kick, why do anything else? When I see them throw these techniques front legs, repeated front legs to become Olympic champions, and they jump up in the air and they're excited and they're crying.
Speaker 1:What makes Taekwondo beautiful is what we do and the explosive kicking, the stepping, the turning, the spinning. Be honest and be frank, it's the trembling shock. There's nothing like watching, like when I used to watch you and your ability to do what you could do with your legs or your punching. And when you punch somebody, or back then, when you punch somebody, they weren't afraid of losing a point, they were afraid of losing a rib. So that's where we need to get back to. But you know, looking back on your remarkable career, is there any particular accomplishment that you're most proud of or any specific moment or achievement that stands out?
Speaker 2:there's so there are so many, I can't really say there's any one particular a thing. Um, I, winning going on the first USA team to the World Championship as a member of the national team was fantastic. Competing in Los Angeles at the West Coast Open with Simon Lee, who became the star of Best of Best, winning the Garden that for me I mean everything I've done. I look at the garden as the highlight and I think, even if I won the world championship, I still look at the garden. But then there's another aspect. I remember seeing my kids grow that I taught back in the 80s. I brought several kids to the Springfield Illinois Junior Olympics and all three of them placed gold. I saw them years later. One became a councilman, like I said before. The other one, she went to an elite college on a scholarship. Those are the things that really, really give me joy and pleasure and a sense of accomplishment.
Speaker 1:Could you along that line? You know, we realize, and one of the reasons that Taekwondo still resonates with so many people, it's not just a sport or just a martial art, but it's a way of life. Could you share any of the profound lessons that you've learned during your years of training and competition and how they shaped you as an individual, both on and off the mat?
Speaker 2:You know, my instructor used to use the term give bone, give. What did he say? Give skin and take bone, and at first I thought he just meant by that just a competitive aspect of it. But as I got older I began to realize what he meant was whatever you do, give it your 100%. There'll be setbacks, but continue. There'll be setbacks, but give it your all, don't give up. And if you are setback, continue, find another way to succeed in whatever it is you're doing. So it's the indomitable spirit I think is what they call it that you can develop with Taekwondo that spirit to not be deterred by anything, by having the confidence to achieve whatever it is you want to achieve without any fear of failure. That's basically what he taught me and that's probably for me the most important thing in my life learning that discipline and learning that stick-to-itiveness and determination.
Speaker 1:You know he's come up a lot in these conversations and I would be remiss if I didn't. You know, one of my favorite pictures is a picture with your instructor, who was a very good friend of my instructor and over the years I would see him all the time. And then I had the good fortune to have him as my Olympic coach and so I'm well aware of his many sayings and things and I was always blessed to be able to have him because I had had many coaches who sat in my chair and didn't really add to my performance and he certainly was one of the ones that inspirationally and technically helped me during that time and I credit in a large part to my success. But as we move on, could you talk a little bit more about the Taekwondo Hall of Fame? And I know it serves as a repository of the sport's rich history and legacy. What are your long-term goals for it and how do you envision it to continue to inspire and educate future generations of Taekwondo practitioners?
Speaker 2:Sure, that's a fantastic question. As I said before, there are so many people throughout the world in Taekwondo that have done so much more. My intention is to expand. There are 209 nations. I'm sure in all of those nations there are people who have achieved things that no one knows about. I want to reach out to those people through my technical advisors and maybe bring in more technical advisors. The other thing we have is a museum that's online. It's the very first one ever. You can reach it by taekwondo museumcom or official taekwondo museum, and then we have the artifacts and some of the history of some of the things that people have done. So in that way, I educate people. We educate people in terms of history through the artifacts.
Speaker 1:And we try to talk a little bit about the major players through the museum. I'm going to ask just one final question. It's rare that I get a guest of your stature and someone who has competed across across such a broad swath of martial art and experience. Could you and and this wouldn't be a dig on anyone that you did fight or didn't fight, but what was your toughest match and where was it and who was it against?
Speaker 2:I'll tell you uh, I've had a lot of tough matches I saw.
Speaker 1:I saw a lot of them.
Speaker 2:My toughest one, oh, I would have that's a. There were several, but some that stick out in my mind would be with Michael Warren, michael Warren, albert Cheeks, mark Williams. Mark Williams is a very smart fighter, but Michael Warren, the ability that he had in that period of time, it was the ability to kick with both legs, moving back and forward. His timing was excellent, his stepping was excellent. Albert Cheeks strength, his power in his front leg and reverse punch. I mean he was unstoppable. These are two of the strongest fighters that I had. Mark was great.
Speaker 2:As you know, mark is a point fighter, very intelligent. He's not going to bang it out with you, but he's going to score and he's going to win. And he won the Garden five times, which is incredible, the most prestigious tournament in the United States. He won that tournament five times. Mike Warren won it four times. So, in addition to the tournament champions, but I'd say those three people were three of the hardest.
Speaker 2:William Oliver was a great fighter. Others that I've watched fight Pat Worley, jeff Smith, ray Nickel, daniel Richey. There were so many great fighters, but for me, mike Warren and Albert Cheeks were fantastic. As a matter of fact, I'm going to be meeting with Albert and, I should say, grandmaster Cheeks were fantastic. As a matter of fact, I'm going to be meeting with Albert and, I should say, grandmaster Cheeks and Grandmaster Warren, probably on the 20th of this month, and we're going to release something that's going to be absolutely amazing. So I want you to follow the Tech on the Whole of Fame website and our Facebook page and you'll see what it is, and it's something where we'll be able to share their victory in Korea with the world.
Speaker 1:So you should. I'm looking forward to that, because I keep an eye on you, and then at the end of this I'll circle back with you to get some links so we can put it up on the podcast as well, and then I just have this is my last question. I promise and I'll let you get back on your list. One last question. So I can't remember, but when you won the Garden, who was the final match against?
Speaker 2:John, the guy from his name was John from John Blankenship.
Speaker 1:No, no, not Blankenship. Oh, not him. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:His name was John. There was actually two people I fought, but John was the last for that. Oh really, I didn't realize that yeah yeah, god, why can't I remember the guy's name? Unbelievable.
Speaker 1:I'll look it up.
Speaker 2:It's not as if he was someone that was a lightweight or anything like that. I just remember his name John Lee. Unbelievable John Lee was his name. I think he and Michael O'Malley were partners up in Boston. He was a fantastic fighter, very strong fighter.
Speaker 1:I fought John twice in the national championships. I fought him and I fought him again in the team trials and he was a strong, street-savvy fighter. He kicked me so hard I won the match, but my backside of my ribs hurt for three weeks. And if he's listening, to this.
Speaker 1:You know now he knows because I didn't let him know at that time, but I remember John well and, of course, michael Malley well.
Speaker 1:But again on the behalf listen, sir, it's an honor to have you and I'm sorry it took us a few minutes to get around to you, but I know you're busy.
Speaker 1:I appreciate and always have watched your career with admiration, and then the people that you have trained with your efforts on the Taekwondo Hall of Fame of which I was honored to be in Korea when you did that ceremony and then have watched you over the years do what you do and seen it grow. And I think more people need to be involved and then use that as a starting place, because when we forget our history, we forget who we are, and then that's kind of what happens with taekwondo. So we need to remember who we are, what we do, and I think you've done an amazing job of that. We are what we do and I think you've done an amazing job of that and you are a gift because you have done the sport at every level and in every format that was available and you continue to be passionate about it, even though you should be relaxing, perhaps on a beach somewhere. But on behalf of the Masters Alliance podcast on cut, I want to thank you and thank you for all your hard work.
Speaker 2:It's been an honor. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Thank you, sir. As expected, even I learned more things about this amazing individual than I knew before. I hope that he continues to serve as a role model for all of us, because he certainly did for me and continues to do so. He's an example of what is possible if you put your mind to it and you maintain your passion for the thing that brought you to the place you are currently in life. Grandmaster gerard Robbins shared his ideas and his reasons for doing what he did and does every day. Don't be afraid to join us for the rest of these podcasts, where we explore equally as interesting and motivational speakers as Grandmaster Robbins. This has been Herb Perez. This has been a Master Alliance podcast uncut, and I look forward to hearing from you and seeing you next time.