Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Beetlejuice 2, Gladiator Reboots, and the Evolution of Taekwondo Coaching: Balancing Legacy and Innovation
Who knew that a sequel could be both a source of laughter and nostalgia? We kick off with a look at Beetlejuice 2 and the new Gladiator, comparing them to their legendary predecessors. Tucked between our cinematic banter, a personal anecdote about a daughter's unexpected first words turns into a family running gag that might just resonate with you. Our chat takes a thoughtful shift as we explore old-school versus new-school approaches in taekwondo, pondering the genuine toughness and diverse perceptions of fighters across eras.
Moving to the heart of the sport, we unpack the crucial role of coaching in shaping future taekwondo stars. Our conversation is enriched with insights drawn from our own experiences and the globally successful coaching strategies of countries like Korea and China. We discuss the often-overlooked challenges coaches face when transitioning between different competition levels and highlight the need for systems that appreciate the unique skills demanded at each stage. Expect a lively debate on how open dialogue and potential improvements can sustain sports success and athlete development.
Our deep dive into taekwondo coaching paints a vivid picture of mentorship's impact on developing elite coaches. We celebrate legendary figures such as Ko He-min and Kim Se-hyuk for their monumental contributions to the sport, while also reflecting on the challenges within the U.S. coaching community. Through personal stories, we underscore the necessity of a meritocratic system to nurture the best talent. We conclude with a nod to leadership challenges in USA Taekwondo and a wider societal reflection on youth and decision-making, leaving you with food for thought and a few laughs along the way.
Good afternoon, good evening or good morning, wherever you may be. I know we have people across the world listening to us. I couldn't speak sponsorships and good morning and good afternoon depending where you are. Mr TJ, how you doing.
Speaker 3:I'm good. I'm good Just hanging out right now getting ready for this conversation. This weekend's a little weird for me, though. I watched you guys remember the original Beetlejuice Like the old.
Speaker 2:Beetlejuice.
Speaker 3:They made a number two and I suffered through it and I'm really mad about it. So that's my update from the weekend not so good for me.
Speaker 1:Mr Moreno, how you doing coach you know what?
Speaker 2:let's see I'm doing great. But first of all, on the Beetlejuice, I didn't watch it because of that everyone. Oh, I can't wait to see it. I'm just like it's been. I don't know how many years. You can't ask it. No, I'm not even gonna watch.
Speaker 3:I watched Gladiator and I want to watch that.
Speaker 2:I haven't watched that yet and you know what I wasn't. It wasn't bad, but you know, the first one was so iconic it's just hard to to replicate that. So yeah, for me that wasn't that good, but yo I'm doing good. I just thought of a funny story because my daughter's been sick all week. She, you know, she went to school. They sent her home, she was okay. A day later she went back bad and I was just looking at her. She looks so helpless and so quiet and so sick and laying there like my little baby and I don't know why. Just thinking, herb, do you know what my daughter's?
Speaker 1:first words were I know where's where's coach perez ready for this, you ready for this?
Speaker 2:she looked at me. She's like tj, tj. Oh really, she said tj. We were like what we got? We actually recorded it. It was so funny because she was when she was a baby, she cried every time she saw anybody I don't know. She from being at the school and I'm always like dj, this dj, that all of a sudden she's like teacher it's kind of a right joke in her family.
Speaker 1:It sounds like there might have been some visits. There might have been some visits you didn't know about.
Speaker 2:Well, she looks just like me, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying before I'm just saying after oh, what's going on? You look like you got a crown on. You got a crown on what is one? Two?
Speaker 2:there's a few up there. There's a few missing a couple, but it's old picture. You know, I'm saying oh my gosh well, I'm looking and then what?
Speaker 1:I see a medal over there and I'm not a good. I got three of those. I think the three of those, those things. But when we're talking about the old school, you know the old movie, the gladiator, the beetlejuice, I'm going to just say that I agree. I agree also in taekwondo, the old medals, the guys who won medals, and three of them are on the podcast today. So I'm going to say it out loud. But then again, there's only old, there's only it really is only old medals, the new ones aren't okay, can I, can I jump in real fast?
Speaker 2:actually, I had a little bit of a I don't even say like uh I had a little bit of a talk with somebody on uh, on social media and and again, I know you know, I know we we argue back and not argue. We debate back and forth about old school, new school and stuff like that. But it was just I, you know this individual was talking about how the old or the new school, they can't do this, they can't do that, they can't fight, and I was just like you know what we were going back and forth about our points. But one of my thing was because he kept on referencing that the old school guys, like, were tough guys. And there were old school guys that were tough guys, that could fight in and out.
Speaker 2:I said, but listen, I was on many national teams and you were on two where some of these dudes, they were great in the ring but they couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. So let's not have this thing. Like everybody around us, we're bad ass tough dudes, and I'm not saying these guys nowadays are, but you know what I'm saying. Come on, we've been on a lot of trips where people you know in certain situations would run the other way. I'm just saying we have.
Speaker 1:We have been on many teams and I have been on many teams where there are a lot of sissies. I don't know if they can use that wording, maybe I'll get canceled, but yes, we we're a lot of old school teams and teams before I was on them actually that had a lot of sissies on them that couldn't fight and wouldn't fight.
Speaker 2:No, but they were good at the sport.
Speaker 1:No no, they were good. No, no, they were good at the sport. No, no, they were good at the sport. They looked at the sport. They referred to the sport as a game. They were players who referred to the sport. It was a fight and we were fighters.
Speaker 2:I remember one of your good friends couldn't stand. Oh no, actually I think it was Greg Baker. Greg Baker was an old fighter, he's a rough guy, whatever. But I remember somebody would say yeah, we're a Ta taekwondo player and we played the game, and he's like what are you? What are you talking about? You know? I mean there were some people that looked at it as a game and a sport. Some people looked at it as a fight and a sport. Um, and I think I would be willing to bet there's some people in this day and age, I mean, um, that look at it, for sure, as a sport, but there's some of them that can ball their fist up and they can let it go if they have to. I, I believe Not all of them.
Speaker 1:I think you guys have listen, you guys are closer to the athletes than I am and you've got some great athletes and I'm sure that some of them can actually fight. It's not evidenced by the Olympic Games by any means, but I'm sure that they can hurt things more than other people's feelings, right? So I'm going to assume that that's the case, because I never like to diminish the athlete. Um, I think it's the responsibility falls on the organization what the expectations are, which is what we talked about last week, and I think we're going to kind of try to continue on this week which is where are we? What are we doing? And I know that, coach, you had something you wanted to say about that, and uh, and before we move on to the next topic, me first.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. Go ahead, TJ, you can go. You want to talk about something?
Speaker 3:We're just going back for the recap for last week.
Speaker 1:A little bit yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can do that and we can. Also. You know, I know we want to talk about solutions. You know I'm not the kind of guy that you know. If there's a broken window, I don't want to talk about who broke the window, I want to talk about who broke the window. I want to talk about we can do to fix the window. So I, it doesn't matter, you can point out a problem, but do you have a solution? So we're going to get to solutions this week, but before we get there, let's let's recap and make sure we got everything where it needed to be yeah, I mean I know.
Speaker 3:So what we? I kind of ended on. I asked coach reynolds just kind of, like you know, was this what you envision when we talk about a national team program or the setup and all that stuff like that? Um, honestly, I like, for me, I think the one thing that stands out the most for me is just, uh, I think the level that we get involved, the level that the national team get involved with the, the juniors, like I think I think I was very privileged when I was a junior I was around the big dog coaches. I was around the guys that been there before, done that before and like those are the ones that got me through the process.
Speaker 3:That I would say ultimately help me later on at the higher levels. You know and I'm not saying no, coaches that go are good. I just think the I mean, look, you have two high level coaches, you know, that are with you as a junior and a cadet and not cadets then, but as a junior, kind of like showing you how things are, you know how important you're developing at the competitions and everything. So I mean it's just a little bit of a different take on where we are now and then kind of just selecting teams to go with the kids to the event, coming back and then restarting again the next year.
Speaker 2:I mean, listen, I'll add to that like, in a sense, first of all, young, I'm not. Of course you're correct. If you're going to throw some shade at people or things, sometimes you might want to try to, you know, help fix it. But I'm going to tell you something. To be honest with you, I don't think it's my job to fix it. If you want to hire me, if you want to bring me not hire me, you want to bring me to the table, I'm more than willing to give some introspect on it and maybe find some solutions.
Speaker 2:But, being said kind of what TJ mentioned, I've heard in the past that some of your best coaches should be at the bottom level. Some of your best coaches should be watching some of these young kids because, generally speaking, they could be the best teachers. I'm not saying all the time, but at least be aware, at least be understanding. At least be understanding, at least know people's names, at least know where people come from. I would think that if you're a big program and you're looking down, you should be doing that instead of just looking what's right in front of you or what kind of falls in your lap. I think you should be doing it, going down a couple different layers.
Speaker 2:Which could beg the question and maybe this is a great topic to talk about today is where different people, different coaches, fit in the hierarchy of coaches. Because, come on, I know everyone says, oh, I want to be a national team coach, but what level? Cadet, junior, seniors, oh, I want to be an Olympic coach. Maybe and this is what I think is interesting, because I love other sports you look at, there's great I mean phenomenal high school coaches, there's great collegiate level coaches and there's great professional coaches and very rarely, very rarely, do they switch and have success. For example, american football, one of the most established detailed money sport in the world. Not many collegiate level coaches who are unbelievable can go to the pros and excel, like it's extremely low percentage.
Speaker 3:Why do you think that?
Speaker 2:is. I think it's a different type of athlete. I think it's. You know, sometimes you're dealing with money and professionalism versus developing men or women. I think at the youngest you're still developing skills. Their bodies are growing. The rah-rah can it makes, you know. Do it for the school, do it for the you know the Alabama Crips and tie. Do it for Notre Dame. People buy into that in the pro level because they changed so much and the collegiate level is changing now because of this NIL. But I think that that has a big thing to do with it, you know. But also coaches know inherently, I'm going to take this individual, I'm going to develop them, I'm going to coach them and they're going to move on and they're okay with that. But in our sport you got a lot of like I want to hold on to them because I know best, because I know them the best, and that's not the truth. Just because you know them the best doesn't mean that you know the best.
Speaker 3:Does Korea have a system similar to that, like with their high school teams, elementary teams? They do. They do tech window throughout their whole like school developments correct. So it's kind of like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know it depends on the, on the system, right? So, australia and bob gamberdello, who we hired as a ceo for a while. He and I went through the memos program, which is a is a scholarship program and you get your master's in sport organization, development and athlete identification and his thesis was on this, and so we looked at different ways that they found athletes and coaches and trained them, and then we tried to bring some of that to the United States so that we could also have that kind of success. Right, when you do that, you do get a success. But you know it's a different system. China they five, six years old, they go through a program, they look at them and they pick their athletes and, based on those athletes, they they say you're, you'd be good at this, you'd be good at that, you'd be good at this, and that's be good at that, you'd be good at this. And that's where you go, that's what you do, that's what you're expected to do, that's what you do, do and do, do.
Speaker 1:I like that one. But you know, and so I think that's and I will add this to the conversation only this. So I'm going to offer, probably at some point, some discussion of solutions only because I I I'm a solution kind of person. I don't think it's our obligation to change it. And the last thing I'll say in that is, quite frankly, this if I we all know this you try to help somebody, and when you try to help them, it doesn't mean they actually listen to you, nor do they take your help and nor do they want your help. So I've stopped helping people unless they come to me and ask me for advice. And that includes walking, like if I'm walking down the street and I see somebody's lost and I can obviously see they're lost I don't offer them help because they may not want my help. And when I do offer them help, often they're oh, I got it. And so I'm like okay, well, best wishes, hope you get there but I still hold the door for people.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly no, I still listen I'm a guy.
Speaker 1:But when it comes to the rest of the stuff, god bless you, baby jesus, hope you, hope you find your way, because unless you look to me and ask me, I'm not going to help you. Because in my experience and this goes with organizations usa taekwondo is where it is because it doesn't want or need anybody's help. It thinks it's got it figured out or it likes where it's headed, and that's the WT, that's the kooky one, that's this and, quite frankly, that's the International Committee and a bunch of the other guys I've worked with and for. So until they ask me for help, I'm still going to offer it, but I'm just not going to tell them about it.
Speaker 2:You know what's interesting is like. I think and it's probably in a lot of our sports, because I've, you know, I'm very close with certain other countries kind of formats, whether it's Mexico, canada, united States, brazil, some other foreign European countries as well I think that our sport doesn't do a good job of recognizing and giving people accolades for coaching, being successful at coaching a certain level. So, tj, you asked about Korea. I mean, generally speaking, as the kids get better, they have a different model in Korea nowadays where they're letting the coaches kind of move up with them until the national team level. You're starting to see that. But I think this country could be a country that says you know what we value a cadet-level coach. They train them hard, they train them often, they work certain skills, they know how to play little games with them and do these little things that are probably important in that 12 to 14 year old age. And then when you get 15, 16, 17,. Kids are different, right, they're not as amused by the little, maybe, the little games and vice versa, or same thing when you get to the adult level, but finding those coaches, giving them their props, giving them their recognition, because I think in life.
Speaker 2:Everybody wants to be recognized, I don't care what, even a gangbanger. Why is he a gangbanger? Why does he go rob somebody? He wants to be significant, he wants to be recognized, he wants to be somebody, even though it's a bad example. There's no different than us. When people do well, well, it's human nature to want to be recognized, to feel some sort of significance. I know, in a perfect world, no, I just do this for the goodness of of. Oh my god, look at that picture. Look at that picture. What happened? You're kind of handsome back then dude.
Speaker 1:You know I used to be good looking. I just just turned 65.
Speaker 2:TJ, hey, 65.
Speaker 1:That's pretty awesome. I know you guys are putting up your medals and your rings. No, no, no, hold on, hold on. Do you have one of these?
Speaker 2:No, put the other one back up. No forget that.
Speaker 1:Do you have an action figure? That's all I want to know.
Speaker 2:Hey, tj even men wear satin and purple together.
Speaker 3:And I'm a purple belt.
Speaker 1:And I'm a purple belt, that was kind of sexy man, you were kind of.
Speaker 3:Oh, you like the other one. It's like you got a Komodo on here.
Speaker 2:Sleeveless Komodo, Let me take a screenshot of that, bro. Hold on, I'm going to get this one hey.
Speaker 1:You forgot my muscle one. You never saw the muscle one my muscle one.
Speaker 2:You never saw the muscle one. Listen, let's leave this a pg thing, because I'm good with that one right there because, quite honestly, there wasn't a whole lot of muscles.
Speaker 1:Man, you want to see the guns come on oh my gosh, all right, go ahead, go ahead uh so anyway, I just think like I don't know, it would be something to be.
Speaker 2:It would be interesting to see if um an organization could actually keep not key people, but like recognize people in their their development level, developmental level Cause. Again, I don't do much in this country right now, um, but when I look at certain coaches I can give it up. I can go, wow, that kid's, that guy's a really good junior level coach and sometimes it's by virtue of how many people they develop. You know how many medals they get, how many people they put on the team. I just don't see them having the same success at the senior level. That doesn't mean that they couldn't develop with that, but they haven't and it's okay. Nothing wrong with that buddy, nothing wrong with that lady. You're an amazing cadet coach, maybe better than me.
Speaker 3:I think it's cool. Yeah, you're, you're amazing cadet coach, maybe better than me. Yeah, I think it's. I mean for me, I think it's cool that the at that level, at that age, that the, the home coaches, are involved. You know what I mean. But I also think there should be some kind of not I don't want to say guidance, but like I don't know, just a feel good.
Speaker 3:Maybe don't got nothing to do with development or building, I just felt like a different kind of support when I was a junior, like, I had big names with us. I had. I was, like you said, I was surrounded by Olympic coaches who had Olympic medals that were coaching a junior. At that point, like that's who I grew up around, that's who gave me my vision and put me in a position of like, okay, I really want to do this or maybe point me in the right direction. But I had influences all around me.
Speaker 3:I remember was it. Was it? I remember being at my first junior, my junior Pan Am championships, and losing that one, losing the semifinals. I believe it was it's a controversial call, whatever it may be and I remember taking my mouthpiece out and dropping it on the floor and I think it was Miss Lemus actually, miss Lemus, she's like shut up and I didn't do it as a disrespectful thing. But from that moment on I realized how important it was to be aware of your surroundings, to be aware of the moment, to like not get thrown off track by those little things. So I think all those things not that those lessons can't be taught by other coaches, it's just it means something different when you're coming from people who have literally been at the highest levels of the game and have affected, even like as I met them as a younger stage in my career as opposed to, you know, getting through when I started, started to like, you know finishing.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. But you know, let me ask you cause I'm going to go devil's advocate, because I believe certain coaches are better equipped because of their experiences. So how does a coach? I'm a small coach and I say, yeah, but how am I going to learn that if I never get my chance at it?
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying, so maybe that's what you're saying.
Speaker 2:TJ is like we need some good mentors. You know talking to those people. And this goes now to education. Coach Perez, you know, you've been, you know, on this for 25 years. But teaching people at different levels and a senior level, maybe you need to act and walk and talk like this dress, like maybe oh my gosh, this guy.
Speaker 1:Calm down, boys. You got the P Diddy oil on that body right there. Hold on, Let me take that down. Hold on the P Diddy. He didn't come and killed it. That ain't much better.
Speaker 2:No, but you know what I'm saying. So think about that. If coaches are teaching people, this is how you act at a senior level. This is how you act at a junior level. This is how you act at a cadet level. It's no different than a head coach having a technical director to go and deal with technical issues with the WT. Right, you need to have a buffer. The coach should coach. So when I get in the ring, I don't feel any malice because that referee saw me arguing with him later. Let my technical director go do that on behalf of me. You know what I'm saying. Like, there's just certain people's jobs that need to do those things and everybody can develop and get better and and excel, and I think that that's, you know, probably missing in this country on on many levels.
Speaker 1:So I think I think what you guys said is correct, and so here's where I'll dovetail into it right and try to offer perspective, um, with regard to the coaching and how you develop coaches and what coaches. So coaches should start with a general idea on, um, what they want to do. So if you're a coach and I'm kind of going through this with my son, who's an athlete at the moment, and so I'm preparing him for a life of coaching because at the end of his athletic career he's going to be a coach and I'm working with actually a professional soccer player now that's coaching my son and I'm telling him the same thing You're an athlete now. 10 years from now, you're going to be a coach. So build your understanding of the game now, and actually I have him building content now so that when he stops being an athlete, he doesn't have to become an insurance salesman, right, or work as a lawyer or whatever If he loves-.
Speaker 2:Who is this? Are you talking about your son or the guy that's coaching your son?
Speaker 1:no-transcript him and a legacy so he understands. Not only should you understand the game, but you should understand how to teach. So I have him coaching younger kids and getting that experience now. So, as a coach, you should have that understanding and say where do I sit? Am I a woman's coach? Am I a male men's coach? Am I a junior's coach? Is that my best role? And Korea does a pretty good job of this. They have very elite coaches. The best coach in the world, the best coach in the world studied under the best coach ever. Ko He-min taught Kim Se-hyuk Kim.
Speaker 2:Se-hyuk was ever. Koei min taught kim se-yuk. Kim se-yuk was a high school coach.
Speaker 1:One trained there and the best players in the world trained there because he was the best coach ever. He then went and only coached olympic level guys because they recognized in him an understanding of the game that came from koei min. And when you look at koei min's legacy, this is a guy who had the best coaches in the world under him and to this day I still talk to guys that I didn't know were his students, including the guy out here by me and they were contemporaries of these guys of Koh-I-Mann, I mean contemporaries of Kim Se-Hyuk. So the development of a coach is no different than the development of an athlete, and what I mean by that is it's got to come first from the coach. What do you want to do, what do you think you want to do? And that can change based on your acumen and your ability or your passion. You don't like kids, don't coach kids, coach adults. You like kids, coach kids, because that's crazy rewarding.
Speaker 1:Second, the pipeline, which is what you're talking about, coach. The pipeline has to be developed and empowered by the organization and I learned that when I was on the board of the Olympic Committee. And that's a flex, right, but I don't, you can throw shade on it, but it is what it was. I developed programs for eight different sports in conjunction with their high-performance directors high-performance plans. We reviewed them and implemented them. In conjunction with their high-performance directors high-performance plans we reviewed them and implemented them.
Speaker 1:And if you do it correctly, you create a pipeline that's sustainable and full, not one or two guys full. So, to bring this back to center, in the United States the pipeline is empty, and so when the pipeline is empty, you start filling it with bodies, as opposed to good bodies. And this is not to say anything about any particular coach, but I have a general rule If you don't know my name, or you don't know Coach Moreno's name, or you don't know some of the Jimmy Kim's name, you probably you know, if you, if I don't, if you don't know our names, you probably don't know Taekwondo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean if I don't hold on a second, if I don't know our names, you probably don't know Taekwondo, yeah, but I mean if I don't hold on a second, if I don't know your name, then you definitely don't know Taekwondo.
Speaker 1:So just personal and that you know. Now people can hate on that, and they can. I'm going to keep it real for a minute. That's not to say I know all the new guys, but if you don't know your history, you're you're damned to repeat it. What I can say for us is in our generation we had some of the worst coaches in the world. Worst the worst. We coached ourselves, we coached each other.
Speaker 1:The second generation we had some of the best coaches in the world because they were you guys. We developed. We didn't want to be like our predecessors, we wanted good coaches. You had good coaches that sat in your chair. Towards the end of my career I had one or two.
Speaker 1:You know Capner. Dr Capner was one of my coaches when I sat in, when I could have him in my chair, and you had good coaches in your chair, but for the most part we were on our own when you guys sat in chairs. You guys got results and you had, you were developed. You developed yourselves, we developed content and then we developed a methodology and that methodology is why TJ is here. Tj was found by us and you and everybody else, and then he, by himself, developed and he's a good coach because of you. So, yeah, we need a developmental system, and that developmental system doesn't exist currently because no one cares for it to exist. Because as soon as you do have it, then you have a meritocracy, and a meritocracy means the best and the brightest rise to the top and the rest don't. And we're a performance culture and if you don't rise to the top, that's okay. You can carry a bag. You don't have to be the guy who the bag's being carried for.
Speaker 2:I mean, listen, you're not wrong on any of that stuff. And sometimes I get a little bit shy to talk about the old times, stuff like that, because I think there is not the old times, just the past, because I think we definitely have to learn from the past, understand our history and move forward. That's what I talk about Culture, understanding people's culture, understanding you know what has, what has happened, what has developed and where we are now. And where we are now and when you fall back, then that's a big problem. I think that's where we're at right now because I mean, listen, at one point I was pretty successful as a coach for the United States. I had many people on the national team. But what I'm more proud of right now, something that you just said you know is look at Terrence Jenning, a great coach, coach in the military, coaches privately, his coaching Olympics excelled.
Speaker 2:James Howe successful school, successful kids, right. Tim Tocco you don't even know him. His original athlete was Michaela Greenwood, who's an Olympic I'm sorry, world champion. Russell Benneby, national team members, coach all over Oily, developed Olympic athletes and it just kind of goes up. You know, brad D'Amique, para-athletes, and so in our little system, with our athletes and coaches, mentoring them. We were able to foster that. I mean, again, talk about a flex. I don't know many programs that have been able to spawn many other successful programs or many other successful coaches, I mean. But I just think that that's what we need to do and I didn't set out to do that originally, but for sure, me and TJ had specific talks when he was winding down his career. Me and James out specific talks about okay, what's the next thing, whether it's a school owner and how to develop kids. We still talk about it. Tj went into the military coaching at a professional level, I mean, and we talk daily about this, right, you under, you under you undersell, you undersell yourself.
Speaker 1:so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a little bit of something out there for you before, and then tj will get to you.
Speaker 1:So, first of all, you, you and I work together in camps and stuff, right, and when we were talking back then you know we talked about stuff you took the small framework of what we were working on together when we were working for Macho and all those guys in Central, and you created something that no one ever thought to create, which was you privatized Olympic development across the country, olympic development across the country. And as a result of privatizing it and making it a profit-based system like a professional club, you went out and found 10 to 12 to 15 of the best schools that you could work with, and then you proved your legacy and your product. So I don't want to undersell the fact that peak performance put more people on teams than you know the national programs does, and so that's, you know that's got to be said. And then the rest we can. I don't want to just gloss over that all right.
Speaker 3:No, I guess that was my point originally. I'm going back to that story about the pan am championships or junior pan am championships. I don't think I've ever, I don't think I've ever my career, had a bad coach. You know what I mean. I've never had a bad, a bad coach.
Speaker 3:I've been around great coaches since day one, you know, and you know Matt Shreve put me in positions to meet you, to train around you, for you to have identify and see me, and so I've always been in a system where it was building towards something bigger.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I think that's the part that I miss personally is having these kids be around, something they aspire to or something that some people that have, like I knew you guys were from. You know, my original coach was from Ivory Coast who came to the US to train at Howard and he started a program with a vision and there was a lot of us and through that whole thing he kind of put us in positions. All sorts of seminars you know we showed up to I've I've been to stephen lopez seminars, like you know, fast four years later to fight his brother, to have to stand in a ring and fight with him, like, but we were in those positions to be around people who were at the top of the game and all that stuff like that and great coaches. I think that's the we had great. Like you said, we had great coaches from the bottom all the way through the process. For me, so I think that's.
Speaker 2:You know what you did, you know why, you know how you're, you know when you're great when you actually come on. Patricia mark was one of the greatest fighters ever historic. He was just, he's a monster, but then he becomes a coach and that listen, that guy lived in my first house, my first move not lived. He came to my first house in miami and they have furniture him and Arlene Lemus and two other athletes and I went to a wedding and I came back at 2 o'clock in the morning, tired, hanging out, and he's like man, you have very interesting books in your office. Did you read them? He asked OK, I'm like sir, I'm going to sleep right now. Can we talk about it later? Ok, but it's funny because you're absolutely right. Yes, okay, I'm like sir, I'm going to sleep right now. Can we talk about it later? Okay, but it's funny because you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:He brought you to how many different seminars. He brought you in a learning environment. When you came to me, he came and he watched you. He watched you in my program. He told me things that I didn't even know about you, like he was. That's how you know you're great. When he said you know what? Here's the handoff about you. Like he was that's how you know you're great. When he said you know what? Here's the handoff, here's the handoff. And we wouldn't have gotten to where we got to with each other without him. And like I can wholeheartedly admit that, give credit, give him a high five and and just respect him.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting enough, when he became the national team coach, when he became the national team coach, I was the national team coach. I wasn't rehired. He went there, he called me, said well, I need you to help me. I'm like, and I wasn't happy, but I went along and by the end of his tenure I begged him not to quit. I'm like don't quit, you're doing a great job. I mean, it was a tough situation but it was interesting. Here I am getting one of his athletes and then later on I lose my position, he takes it, and yet we're still together, we still talk. That's how you know you're great when a guy like Coach, remark, master, remark is willing to expose, learn, develop himself and his athletes.
Speaker 3:And we don't have many people like that he made us not afraid of anybody. He put us in everybody's room to hear from every single person. He was never shy about that type of stuff in development and if he thought that person had value, he wanted us in front of them.
Speaker 1:That was the goal, that's because Patrice Remarque was a great athlete and to be feared, and he was one of the few guys, along with Jimmy Kim, that I feared and because I watched him fight and I watched people leave the national championships when they saw he was in his draw and then he beat Jay Warwick within an inch of his life on a number of occasions. And you know and that's just keeping it real when I and when myself and coach Moreno and others started to do the education program and develop the content, we reached out to Patrice from ARC because we understood that and one of my favorite stories was I met him. We're coming back on a plane from 1987 World Championships or a World Cup and we're talking and I'm like man, I always um, always wanted to fight you and he said um now?
Speaker 2:I don't know right now. I'm like now this is years later, right now and he goes, he goes.
Speaker 1:I always wanted to fight you too, and I could barely understand to this day when he calls me with his French Ivory Coast accent. I have to really tune in. Then we're talking about fighting, just so you can understand what a true fighter is like. This was not a fighter, this was a murderer. This guy he's like. When I come into a ring, I do not think about being. My job is to kill you, my job to kill you. I want to kill you. Yeah, he's, he was, you know not. His mentality as a fighter is why he was so successful, and all the people that worked with him were successful, because when he trained you, it wasn't about winning, it was about Brutality. I had never seen a man so brutal, and you know, coach moreno knows his story, and I'll end with this last one because it's a funny one.
Speaker 1:One of the other best fighters I ever knew in that division um, for the united states, was james viassana. Viassana was an amazing athlete, so he fought, he had a fight. He looks at his draw this 1991. And he's got to fight, patrice Remarque. He goes, captain, you know who is this guy, patrice Remarque. So I go oh no, he's old man. Yeah, he used to be really good. But are you sure? I said yeah, no, you can beat him. So he goes in, fights, patrice, and wins. They have a war. They have a war the next day. Villasana can't walk. He's got compression fractures. They're afraid he's going to have to have his legs amputated Truth, right. So he looks at me and he goes. Captain, I think he was a little better than you thought.
Speaker 2:No, but first of all he has a country accent.
Speaker 1:So he's a Texas country, a texas. That guy was pretty good. Yeah, he was not bad. Y'all told me he wasn't too good and we're like now we tell you know, we tell them the truth at the end of that, right, but you know, but that's a great example of two things. One, patrice is a for, uh, a fierce warrior. Number two if you believe something is possible, which via Viasana did, it becomes possible. Viasana, listen just to close the door on Viasana. This is a guy who didn't understand that the stuff that you were taught and you could do, you shouldn't do. So he would go and do stuff that other people would be like. You want me to do what? No, no, he would just go in and do it. I got a Patrice story.
Speaker 2:So this is 2000-ish, 2002, 2003. He comes to Miami. I'm training a bunch of guys and he wants to train, he wants to go to practice.
Speaker 2:So you know, everybody's got sweatpants on shirts, baseball hat he goes in the locker room. He comes out in a full door book and I'm like, oh, okay. And so earlier we had trained and, like me, and we did like, in one gym we did some line drills and I steps far with them up and down, making sure, just to make sure it was light, because I'm like I don't know what he's going to do to me. And so fast forward to two days later. We're actually at this.
Speaker 2:You know, suse Cho, the owner of Macho, the guy who made Macho, this guy, suse Cho, we're at his dojo and we're running, we're doing drills. He comes out with his dobokan and one of my guys, who's not bad, he's a welterweight. He's like who's that guy? I'm? He's like who's that guy? I'm like, oh, he's a coach from a long time ago. He's like, bro, he's not bad. I'm like, yeah, he's okay. So then I said, I said, okay, you know, like sparring, and he's like sparring. Yes, he goes in. Everybody has shin guards, forearm guards, that's it. He comes out, headgear, chest guard, he has everything on my. Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.
Speaker 2:My guy, patrice, comes in, my guy goes, oh, patrice chuggies him underneath. Patrice doesn't flip. He comes out. My guy whack, kicks him in the back. That was the last two kicks that my boy threw. He got ax kicked on the floor. He got back kicked through the wall. He's like dude, guy's pretty strong. I'm like bro, you just messed with the wrong sob right there. But it was just funny because this was 2000, this is a decade later, and he was just like he's.
Speaker 1:Anyway, he's a great guy, great guy well, we, you know we were supposed to catch up on solutions. I I'm not sure we're going to get to that today, but that's okay because that'll be next week's podcast. About what would you and we'll think about it for the next week but in the world or the resources, you won the lottery tomorrow and, um, where juan goes to get his cafecito, if he went and bought the lotteria he came in and won, what would he do? Besides, you know, take care of me and get me a nice place I know what I would do, portugal.
Speaker 2:I know what I would. First of all, what I would do in that situation. I would go right to the airport and fly to one city and smack the shit out of somebody, and then I got one more place that I'd go to too. Then I'll figure out something else. That's not what everybody does. Oh sorry, we're talking about Taekwondo.
Speaker 1:The list of people that need smacking is long and longer. When we talk about Taekwondo, we'll talk about I want to think about it because we I think it's an important topic and what would you do if you had resources? You had everything in the world and you were going to. You were going to prove to people what, what is possible, right? Because the idea that we don't have the athletes, we don't have this, we don't have that, that's not true. We, we have the intellectual property, we have everything that we need to make it successful.
Speaker 1:We've empowered, through acquiescence and pandering, a certain group to run organizations and this is across the world, not just here and that's in sport and in martial arts and, as a result of it, they do what they do to keep themselves in power as opposed to produce medals. Now, if the Olympic Committee had a set of cojones, they would do what they used to do back in power, as opposed to produce medals. Now, if the Olympic committee had a set of cojones, they would do what they used to do back in the day, and if you didn't produce medals, you were asked to move on the average tenure. Just so you understand, for an executive director in any sport and I know one. You were on the board as well as, like me and TJ, did you serve as an athlete rep to the board, so you know the average tenure of a CEO.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the average tenure of a CEO. I'm making up meetings during training time, making me bad.
Speaker 2:The average tenure of a CEO. And they're reprimanding you when you didn't come. Oh my gosh, I had to train.
Speaker 1:The average tenure of a CEO in the Olympic movement is less than two years. That's the average tenure. So you don't perform, you move on. You do perform, you move to a bigger and better sport. So, um, we have people circling the drain and they keep coming back to there's no sport better than taekwondo there's no sport better than taekwondo. Then the question becomes why isn't it getting results?
Speaker 2:so you know, that's, that's a really really a good question but you made a good point about people circling back, and it's funny, because I don't have a problem that people circle back if they actually truly wanted to be there, if they truly had something to give, not like gained it along the way. Does that make sense? You understand that TJ. Like, for example, I've been gone and all of a sudden you just bring Juan back just because, and then, of course, give me a year into it. Now I learn everybody. I kind of figure it out Like now, if Juan was over here doing something really good, we pulled him back because we wanted that. But I don't think that's the case in the USA. Tequando, that's one, two, cut off the press. I don't know if it's true, I'm going to say it. I just heard today that the current CEO is leaving December 30th. That's what I just heard. Now I also heard that it's December, december 30th of this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, like you know, like I heard that rumor and then I'm not going to. I'm not going to mention any names, but I got a very whenever you get something personal, somebody gets gets aspernt, as I called it. I got a personal text threatening me from an individual in the organization saying what was said was not true. Where did I hear it? And who said it? And don't believe everything you said. So that individual was supposed to be gone already. So that guy should have been gone already. According to whatever, the organization that's funding Taekwondo in that town is under scrutiny because it misused or doesn't have whatever violated some rules domestically inside its own state or whatever. So I can say this, hopefully, just like any other professional team, when they're listen, there are guys in professional football that don't get to finish a game. They get fired at the halftime During the halftime here.
Speaker 1:Bad news, good news the coach of the whatever is now gone. The assistant comes on or they don't finish. They don't finish at the end of that game. They don't even go to the press conference because they're gone.
Speaker 1:And in soccer it happens in every other professional sportS Taekwondo when it flushed its toilet of the corrupt leadership that's now going to be the leadership of another organization. So I laugh about that. We flushed our toilet and they found a soft landing no pun intended somewhere else we replaced it with an equally self-interested, nepotistic organization that hires from outside the states. We couldn't and just so you understand, in US government you can't get outside contracts from outside vendors that are not domestically sourced before you exhaust all possibilities in the United States for United States vendors. So the idea that in the United States, with 330 million people and X amount of coaches that we used to teach when we went around a certified summit I guess two or 3000 coaches we can't find a coach to coach the U S program, but we can find two narrow dwells with no results to coach the program that give the middle finger to the United States on Facebook and then blame it on their dads this is the best we can do. I don't believe that to be the case. The only time that that survives is when you have a board that's asleep at the wheel, which this one is. You have a CEO who's self-interested and not from the United States, and you have a COO that was a former athlete that didn't perform and is still trying to relive his glory days or make up for the fact that he got knocked out unconscious at the Olympic games. Of course he's going to continue to take the cheap tickets to Korea to go eat food and and and talk to Cho.
Speaker 1:So that's that's. You want to keep it real. That's me speaking. And why do I speak? Because I'm Olympus and I'm I get olympic gold medal and the world cup gold medal and the. I'm a ninth on, so I'm sure they'll come and try to take one of those. Some of them they can take and some they can throw shade on. You want one last thing, and I'm gonna keep it real, and you guys can't come in, and won't? They had a 50th anniversary for USA Taekwondo. They apparently forgot. They forgot my telephone number, they forgot my record and they forgot who I was and what we did for the organization. There wasn't a single athlete in the room from. That was part of the reason that there were any athletes in the room. That was at the event, I think maybe.
Speaker 3:Sharon, I didn't get one, I didn't get it. No, no, hold on room. That was at the event, I think maybe, sharon, I didn't, I didn't get one, I didn't get him. No, no, hold on, I didn't get it. If I, I didn't get it, jules didn't leave the room. She's been there since 1988 so she hasn't left the room. I got a lifetime membership and didn't get an invite. What you want from me.
Speaker 1:I got a lifetime membership too. I got a lifetime membership.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna put that up into like year 3000 or something.
Speaker 2:They're probably gonna take it away from me now or something, but yeah it's like no, but that's a good question, like on that, I mean again, I, I would think that that that that that 50th anniversary I don't know how many people came or didn't come, I don't really know, but that should have been. Look, I, I'm sure they, they announced it, come if you want, but that should have been, uh, to all the olympic level athletes, to all the world medalists. That should have just been a blast, because they have all everybody's emails you mean?
Speaker 1:so what you're saying? I want to understand this. The number of olympic men who have competed at the olympic games, how many total?
Speaker 2:uh, seven and then four, so that's 11, but there's some double crossover, so 11, and then there's 12, 13, 14 less than 16 less than 20, 17.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's less than 20, and some of them are doubles and it doubles right and I I know what the number I can't number, but up until now I can't. I remember last year or whatever, so I can tell you it's less than 20. You're telling me that for the 50th anniversary, the most important thing that's happened to tycoon was this inclusion in the, or whatever. So I can tell you it's less than 20. You're telling me that for the 50th anniversary, the most important thing that's happened to Tycoon was this inclusion in the Olympic games and the number of Olympic medalists at the games, three of whom were here on this podcast. They forgot our emails. They didn't. There wasn't a phone call that was made. I get. I get phone calls hall of fames and stuff like that. I get personal phone calls getting inviting to stuff. My son's a soccer player. He gets. He gets notes from coaches, phone calls asking him to come try out, to come be part of their university and he's like yeah, that's because they want, that's because they want him, I get it they.
Speaker 2:They don't want us. But you would just think, are you? That's again to everybody, to all the olympic level. They should have had some kind of personal invite.
Speaker 1:Look at that face. How could they not want Olympus and the five Olympic rings and that medal in the back? I can't. That might be. Is that a medal? It's all in the back. You can bring the medal in. I think next week we should wear our medal.
Speaker 3:I'll wear it next week for you.
Speaker 1:And then I just want to know we should try this one time. We should call the national office and say hi, herb Perez, on the phone, and if they go, herb who or Juan who or TJ who, then who dat? But anyway, we wax poetic, listen? We let's have some closing comments, because I know you guys, we want to keep these listenable and we don't want to just be grousing and complaining about whatever.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to be honest.
Speaker 1:I'm not complaining about me because if I never go to another tournament and watch another bad taekwondo match, I'll be okay, easy, easy, easy. I'll be okay with that. You know, I don't go to the events for food, I go to watch good events. I got invited to go to Paris.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you a question for maybe a minute each for you guys, for real? What do you guys think about this CEO shooting guy, the guy that got caught. Come on man.
Speaker 3:First of all, I started listening. I didn't even know what a ghost gun was. They kept referring to this ghost gun.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know what a ghost gun was. They kept referring to this ghost gun. I didn't even know that it wasn't there. It's there, it wasn't there. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:But like it's probably, it's like something you put together like out of a kit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no-transcript way. There are a lot of people that don't like me. I'd like to believe that I can no, come on, would I really yeah I, I want to believe that I'm sure there might be a guy from great britain, the, uh, the, I want to believe that.
Speaker 1:Or his dad, I, I want to believe that I can walk down the street without getting shot. And this guy, he watched some Jason Bourne movies, man, if you watch the videotape of him, and then he's a cheeky bastard, right, because he took his mask off. But at the point where you get on a Greyhound bus and your next stop is McDonald's.
Speaker 2:That's what's weird to me. It was smart enough to First of all man. It's so horrible for that man, that 50-year-old man we're older than his family.
Speaker 1:I think that's getting lost, regardless of what you feel about the healthcare industry and all that.
Speaker 2:There was no video of him. The guy was smart enough to avoid all that in New York City, where there's got to be a billion. Then, the next thing, you know, he gets picked up in in pennsylvania with a backpack, with, with the gun, with the id, with the multiple fake ids. But it's crazy because if he's smart enough to pull that thing off, even the I'm not. I'm not a very good criminal, but I would know to throw the gun away, or you know, like something weird there.
Speaker 1:He thought he was going to need it again. So here's. You know, if you ever watch Bad Boys or whatever, you know the jail thing. So one thing you learn is the criminals get caught, because the dumb ones definitely get caught. There's no doubt that this guy was not a great criminal and he got caught because he's not that smart a great criminal. And he got caught because he's not that smart, because if he were that smart he would have found he was smart enough to get away from me. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's all good, but you know, at the end of the day, you know it's, it's a, it's an unfortunate commentary on society, youth, youth in society, youth who are privileged in society, and it's a commentary on how you raise your kids and if you raise your kids in this way, this is what's going to end up happening, because they're going to look at you got to. It'll be interesting as the thing develops and unfortunately we're a spectator where we like to watch car crashes. That's what we, that's what this could we've. They fund themselves on. People love to see the accident right and so there's going to be all this speculation. There'll be a movie of the week about it. There'll be another film, like there was the Melendez film. All of this is going to be talked about and unfortunately, I think what you're going to come up with. This was a kid who had challenges and problems, obviously was smart enough to get through a lot of school and do well. He was a victorian.
Speaker 3:it wasn't valedictorian, he wasn't a regular kid no, he's smart, I think he's gonna be not guilty, though. Right, he did, he did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's not guilty you start, your everybody starts at not guilty. He's gonna he's gonna be in a small prison next to diddy with a baby oil, but the uh, you know he the question really does become, and this is something there's a podcast guy I like to listen to. His name is Scott Galloway and he talks about men raising men. This is a young man who was not raised by a man. This was a young man that wasn't raised to have a role model. We were all raised with role models. We had fathers in our lives or we had seniors in our lives or we had people we respected in our lives. That when we did something we knew it was a reflection upon them.
Speaker 1:The only thing that kept me out of trouble was my. I didn't have a dad in my life. We left early. He was abusive and I had seniors. I had Taekwondo seniors, my instructors. I didn't want to disappoint them. I had teammates. I didn't want to disappoint and now that I'm married and I have kids, I have a family, I don't want to disappoint. I don't want to ever look at my son and think about the implications of what I do and the ramifications to him. So when you're not raised to be a man. You're not raised to be a gentleman. You're not raised to understand consequences. This is the outcome.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know about that kid. I mean I heard his family's wealthy. I don't know if he was raised to be a man or not. He just made a bad decision, or he went cuckoo, or he just whatever. No-transcript brought it up, but I'm curious about it. I just want I I didn't listen.
Speaker 1:I would. I'm gonna say this, though I just want to make sure so I can get ready I gotta start training a little bit. Then I hurt my shoulder but it's gonna get better. Um, you talked about when you win the lottery. You're gonna get out on a plane to go to a particular city and slap somebody.
Speaker 2:That wouldn't be san francisco, I'm hoping now I shake your hand when I see you. I'm not gonna slap you, man, you're good he's claiming injuries like he's pulling out of that jake paul fight my shoulder.
Speaker 1:My right hand is still ready, but my kick is going to hurt. You grab it. I'll start crying like a little baby. All right, gentlemen, this has been the Warehouse 15. Again, keeping it real. It was probably a little more real than most people would like, but that's okay too. I want to say thank you, Any last words, Coach Moreno.
Speaker 2:No great talking to everybody. Can't wait to see everybody next week bigger and better.
Speaker 1:And then Coach Jennings. All good, I'll catch you guys next week, all right? No-transcript.