Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Navigating Stormy Arenas: Reflections on the USA Taekwondo Open, Leadership Challenges, and Building Future Champions
How does one navigate the unpredictable world of sporting events and weather chaos? Join us at Warehouse 15, where I, the Grandmaster of Disaster, along with TJ and Coach Moreno, share personal updates and the latest weather conditions from California to South Florida. Our conversation takes an exciting turn as we spotlight the recent USA Taekwondo Open Tournament. We celebrate the amazing triumphs and acknowledge the challenges faced by athletes and coaches, with a special nod to Aaron Vorpal's commendable contributions to the Wisconsin taekwondo community. Travel stories weave their way into our discussion, highlighting the storms we've braved and the incredible memories made along the way.
Unraveling the intricate issues of tournament organization, we explore the hurdles coaches face with limited resources, scheduling conflicts, and electronic scoring failures. The unexpected drop in international participation at the US Open sparks a dialogue on the need for better planning and management. Drawing parallels with other sports, we stress the importance of high-level competition and national team cohesion for future success on the international stage. With an emphasis on leadership integrity and meritocracy, we advocate for improvements within Taekwondo organizations to foster a more inclusive and expertise-driven environment.
As we conclude, the spotlight turns to the vital support required for national team athletes. The conversation challenges the current system, urging a reevaluation of resource allocation to better prioritize athletes' needs and ensure they feel valued and supported. With upcoming opportunities like the Cadet and Junior Pan American Championships on the horizon, we underscore the dedication required from coaches and the importance of nurturing young talent. Celebrating the commitment of our taekwondo community, we reflect on the achievements of recent tournaments, including a playful nod to the challenges of visiting Reno, and gear up for the exciting opportunities ahead.
We are back at the Warehouse 15 and I am Grandmaster of Disaster, as always, and I've got with me my two most favorite people. He's got Bronze TJ up I don't know why, because last week he got the coaching award of the year, or the century.
Speaker 1:I forgot about promoting.
Speaker 3:You got to change that up. How are you doing today, sir?
Speaker 1:I'm good. I'm a little bit under the weather, dylan. We got a little bit of snow out here trees falling in my backyard, but you know we're alive all right, all right.
Speaker 3:And then what about you, coach moreno? How is everything going with you?
Speaker 2:everything is great, I feel great. We have a nice, cool sunny day over here in South Florida. I'm wearing my soccer jersey from Brazil in honor of my boy Nishino's favorite team, so I'm excited. Actually, it sounds like we have a good agenda today. Talk about the US Open, all the good things and bad things from there.
Speaker 3:So I think we should get into it. Let's do it. Well, I want to give a shout out to the Budo brothers because, after listening to the podcast, my good friend Sifu Harinda Singh, I'm wearing their beautiful jacket here, which I think TJ has. They are sending me a new one with a blue interior because I mentioned to my friend and so they gave me the hookup. So the Budo Brothers check them out. We'll be posting their website. I mean, I got to be honest.
Speaker 2:What about?
Speaker 3:your co-hosts bro what about co-hosts? We don't get one take care of yourself first before you can take care of others. I gotta keep myself warm because I'm in the. I'm in chile, norcal. I'm not in beautiful miami drinking mojitos and I'm not in. Where are you in north carolina drinking mint? Julia, julia, julia or something, what do they call it? I do you have one of those summer outfits? Do you go down to Kentucky and go to the? Whatever that big race is? That's not mint juleps. All right, just checking it.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get started today.
Speaker 3:Enough about my. Did I mention the Budo brothers today? Did I mention the Budo brothers?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now, we're not open to sponsors to sponsors, by the way, just so everybody knows we are. We have a handful of sponsors that have been kind enough to send us well, at least send me stuff. So, um, we got two other guys on the podcast who would like some stuff, so we'll. We, we will consider sponsorship, even including from usa taekwondo. So if you guys are bored and you got some extra um swag laying around been a long time. We are used to getting a lot of free swag. You know we're all Olympians and we got that big bag of 40, 50 items. So, usa Taekwondo, if you're bored and you want us to represent, send us some stuff, go ahead, mr Moreno.
Speaker 2:No, I was just going to say real fast. Actually I think we should shout out to like. Because just gonna say real fast. Actually I think we should shout out to like because every week people are telling me oh, I like this, I like that. But uh, one guy in particular I was talking to him. He's a from wisconsin guy named aaron vorpal. He's actually running the the state championships in uh in wisconsin coming up in april and I told him I would give him a shout out on the podcast because we were talking via facebook and stuff like that. I know his dad from years and years ago when I was a kid living in the Chicagoland area, and he's since taken over his father's program for a number of years. He has but a good guy out there and doing good things for the Wisconsin State. So I want to give a shout out to my man, Aaron.
Speaker 3:One of the best states in the country is Wisconsin. They have one of the best philosophy programs at their university in the country. Believe it or not, Wisconsin is known for philosophy.
Speaker 2:Have you been to?
Speaker 3:Wisconsin. I have been to Wisconsin.
Speaker 2:There's no cheese and beer. I've been.
Speaker 3:I actually had, you haven't been to Wisconsin. I've been to Wisconsin. I've been to every state in the country at least once, and I have been to some states more than I would like to have been to them. I have been to states that have tornadoes and when I land, the place I stayed in last time sometimes is not there, and I have been. We should do this one day to 77 countries. And there was silence. Mic drop, Mic drop. All right, we're getting on. What do we got Coach?
Speaker 1:What do we got? I don't know. I think I've been through a lot too. 77 is a lot yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, some of them are okay. I mean, I've eaten more weird food in more weird countries.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this is good luck or bad luck. I've been in a hurricane, I had a tornado take out my house in Chicago and I've been in a typhoon in Tahiti, so I've been in every windstorm you can have. So just be careful, you might not want a vacation with me.
Speaker 3:You and I, I think you and.
Speaker 2:I were on a.
Speaker 3:You and I. I believe we're in a typhoon in Taipei. We couldn't get on a plane. Remember, they took our plane, that's true.
Speaker 2:That's true, I forgot about it.
Speaker 3:There you go. We watched planes taking off and they didn't put our plane on.
Speaker 1:But planes have been crazy lately.
Speaker 2:Huh, you saw the last one in.
Speaker 1:Toronto.
Speaker 2:That's crazy bro.
Speaker 1:You got to wonder if it's just social media 30 grand.
Speaker 3:For what? Because it's just. You gotta wonder. If it's social media 30 grand for what? Because the upside down ride. You pay good money for that. At disney world, each person gets 30 grand I know 30 grand for what each?
Speaker 1:person 30 they're giving no questions, as delta airlines offered each person 30 000. They gotta hit me up with more than that they had me turned upside down, sliding down the rail like thank god, I God, that everyone survived. Unbelievable, it's scary. The crazy part for me is they get complete footage of this. There's some person filming at the right time.
Speaker 2:that gets the whole thing all the way to the ground. It's perfect, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, anyways, I digress, go ahead. No, I was going to say, anyways, I digress, let's go ahead. No, I was going to say, you know, start with US Open. We just got back from. Well, I just got back from Reno.
Speaker 1:Another long weekend of competition, decent results. I think overall there was more Pan Am region we kind of suspected it first More Pan Am region countries than more international countries. There's a few outliers that were there in certain divisions but level what I'd say middle to low, low to middle, like a lot of decent people at the top and then a lot of fill-in stuff at the bottom. Um, another like for me, I think. I think overall it wasn't the worst competition ever, but I think there was a lot of little things that were just kind of a little hectic.
Speaker 1:And I think the biggest thing for me this weekend like I was talking to you about earlier, coach and Rayna a little bit was I think we got to figure out how this situation of holding matches and not holding matches we fix that, because I don't think that can be a. That shouldn't be an issue at any level of a tournament, especially at a g2 tournament, especially when like it's not like you're. If you're going as an individual club, like you got one coach. If I'm bringing you 10 athletes, eight athletes, nine athletes, and I'm being punished at the tournament, not being allowed to get to their chairs, I don't know if it's a patu thing, I don't know if it's a wt thing, I don't know if it's a usat thing, but there were several coaches that you know trying to figure out and jump in between matches and running across all because they wouldn't hold the matches for people that out there trying to get 20 ranking points and fighting some decent players. I think that has to be rectified.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know it was a little bit of an issue with the juniors and cadets. That should be completely cut. There should be no way you can start a match for juniors or cadets without a coach. There should be no way that they're being. That should just be like impossible. But even moving on to the senior side, for me I think the biggest headache I had was the whole weekend and just watching everyone. Being a little sporadic was just the simple fact of that just having to manage your eight, nine guys with one coach. You know what I mean Well.
Speaker 2:I mean, let me, I'll go there and I have a couple other comments, but you know it is. It's interesting because I can understand a tournament trying to run on time, trying to get it, you know, get it done quickly, but not at the sake of quality, not the sake of safety, not at the sake of business. Because if you think about it like you mentioned, coach, if you bring 10 people, bring seven people, let's say five people right, you're bringing them money, you're bringing them income, and all of a sudden, for some reason, you get the bad luck and you got matched 501, 601, and 701. And so you can't be in, and so your students, their parents, are going to be like, what the heck? My coach isn't here and you're supposed to pay for that just because you had the bad luck of having them all go at the same time, which happens a lot, and for them to say, yeah, well, you should bring another coach.
Speaker 2:Come on, how many real school owners have enough Like, okay, five, you're going to take two coaches for five people and then you have somebody to run your business. I mean, people aren't thinking it through. So I do agree with you, there's got to be something. Um, it's got to be fixed better. Um, they got to be a little bit more understanding.
Speaker 1:Um, even if it makes it run a little longer, I mean, I think by the end it'll all even itself out and the tournament will run on time but I think so too, and I think on a senior day they pushed it back an hour, like we were supposed to start at30, and then we ended up starting at 8.30 or something like that.
Speaker 2:I can't remember the exact time, and they finished at a decent time too, right.
Speaker 1:Right, that's also my point, like it wasn't. And again, I think everyone I think we talked about it last episode we all assume the fact of long days in competition, kind of one of those things. If it's ran smoothly enough throughout the day and they finish later, I don't think anyone has any gripes about that part. You know what I mean. It is what it is. But but like to to rush through matches or not rush through matches, to to not have enough people to be able to slow the rings down and let the coaches coach their athletes, is is a is a big problem for me. You know, I just, I just can't, I can't understand that you know I.
Speaker 2:I'd like to add like, obviously I wasn't there. I watched a lot of matches on tape so I can't critique. You know some things, but just from you know Mr Don Lewis, you know he runs that Facebook page, wtu slash, usat data and facts. He came out right from the beginning and he said the US Open had a total of 301 seniors. If you think about it, he said again I don't know the numbers, I'm just going off of what he said it was a 37% drop from the registration. No Uzbekistan did it come? No Jordanians, no Koreans. I mean, in comparison I talked about last week, the Canadian Open is generally a smaller tournament On the senior level. Canada had more people, they had 307, 308, and this one had the US Open had 301.
Speaker 2:I think that's a big, that's crazy. I mean that can't, that shouldn't happen. I don't know who's to blame, or if it's the city, it's the timing, the lack of international relationships. I don't know what it was. Maybe it was just a bad moment. I told you, specifically for Brazil, we have our team trials this coming week and so a lot of athletes didn't want to risk it. There was a handful, but not many. So I just think that's a big big thing to talk about.
Speaker 2:I also know I'm not a foreign person for competition, but in the Ponce day they had a three or four hour delay without the electronic system and they went to. They went to a paper scoring and somebody mentioned in a comment. They said, hey, if that happened for sparring, would they go to? Would they allow us to go to paper scoring? And I was like that's a good freaking point, like that would never happen.
Speaker 2:So this is a big event for Poomsae. It's a g3, g2. I'm sorry, um, I don't know man, there's got to be some standards there and just to kind of push the poomsae people aside. That's a again, I don't know whose problem, but if you're hosting, I would say this if you want to take the credit when things are good, you got to take the. You got to take the bad when things are bad. If you're going to be the boss, be the boss at both sides of the uh of the field and I think usa, tigano or whoever ran that has a uh a little bit of dirt on their hands. You know from from that standpoint. So something that probably needs to be looked into, you know, for the future. You just we can't accept that.
Speaker 3:We can't accept that as as ricky accept that as as Ricky Ricardo would say if you're old enough to know this reference, as Ricky Ricardo would say and I love Lucy, you got some splaining to do, so I'm splaining, you know. The reality is that if you're a professional and you're a professional organization and this is what kills me they do all this and all these events. Maybe this is what kills me. They do all this and all these events, maybe not this one in particular. They make it look nice.
Speaker 3:So if you look at the Grand Prix, the World Championship, whatever, and they do all this stuff to make it look nice, yet they don't fix the most fundamental parts of it. Number one usually technology. Number two are the humans that have to implement the technology. So if you're going into the cheap seats to get the humans to run the technology and they don't have any experience with it and then you get back to paper, that's a whole other thing. So you got to control the things you can control, because people remember how they're treated and that's why people don't go. The other fact is, if the event's in Reno, who's going to Reno? Only Canadians go to Reno because Reno might be better than most of Canada.
Speaker 2:No, I'm joking, but it's less boring than many Canadians, so not really.
Speaker 3:Canadians either, right, so you got to kind of, you know you got to look at it from that way, but you know it continues to be an embarrassment. Um, and that's in part because the board is disconnected, unaware or incapable, and none of those are acceptable. And then the people running the organization are disinterested, disaffected and they don't care. And so when you have that kind of situation, you're going to have these kinds of results. Now it doesn't affect you at that event as much as it will affect you the next time somebody considers going to the event. The way events grow people that were happy come back and new people that don't know better show up. So you'll always have those new people that don't know better and they'll show up. But the people that grow events are the legacy people, the people that come back time after time after time after time. So if your event doesn't grow, it means you're not taking care of the people that are in the house. And that's the same thing with a taekwondo school.
Speaker 2:TJ, let me ask you because I know I actually heard it. I think we spoke about it. Maybe you were there so you can confirm or deny. I was watching. I told you I watch a lot of matches and I heard you know they were asking for volunteers to run the table, to run the computers, and I'm like I'm thinking to myself as I'm here, I'm like you're asking for volunteers during the tournament, like I don't think I've ever heard that of all the not that I understand all the languages when I've traveled but I've never heard that.
Speaker 2:And then when I'm looking at the tables and I'm seeing some young kids and young kids, and again God bless them because they're helping out, but like just the fact that again our, our biggest event, the biggest event in this country, is asking for volunteers on the third day and getting down to like kids sitting up there running these computers while these Olympic level potential hopefuls are fighting. It's kind of crazy, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not, I mean I saw. I mean I I we see it all the time, but I saw that this weekend too, like some of the kids sitting there running and operating their computers and stuff like that. I just I know there was. I think there was one, one of my a bunch of people were talking about one uh match where apparently they were. They stopped, it was about to end, the referee stopped it, the coach was on a card something and I guess the um it was like the fifth gum john or something like that, and I guess the person at the computer hit for the match to end and it like recycled everything and they basically couldn't get the match back or whatever. So they had to speak with the coaches and have them kind of like. I think I guess the point difference was pretty good. You know what I mean. I guess they kind of figured it out. But yeah, I, I don't.
Speaker 1:Like I said, this goes back to the whole holding matches thing. For me there's no way, like you said, good on them and you know I'm glad the kids are able to help out and be a part, but like not at a senior day on a G2. It's impossible to me. Like it just it just doesn't feel right to me. You know what I mean. Like that at any other open in Europe I've never seen that at. Even in other places in the Pan Am region I've never seen a child or a kid at the computers running those types of things. Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe I haven't looked, but I don't remember that being a thing.
Speaker 2:But what I'm thinking about is again, you know, I know, you know we keep talking about your son moving into the collegiate level, soccer and hopefully beyond, and now that you're getting into again, I just don't understand. This is the highest of the high in our sport. This G2 is supposed to be one of the premier events in the world. Okay, so make that equivalent to basketball or soccer or volleyball. You just wouldn't see a little kid, a little 12 or 13 year old, sit at the scoreboard trying to push, start and stop. You know what I'm saying. You just wouldn't see it. I hate to say that, but that's just not acceptable. That's Bush League on our part. It's because in this country, I got to blame us, got to blame us.
Speaker 1:Again, you got to go back to leadership you got to go back to leadership. I know, but go back to leadership you gotta go back to leadership.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I know, I know. But yeah, no, I know, go ahead tj gold medal.
Speaker 2:I'm listening to coach arado, go, what do you say? I was just saying, like I said us, I'm talking to the united states. If we're hosting this thing, this thing has to be done at a high level, nothing else acceptable. Kind of back to my statement before when things are great and you want to say, yeah, yeah, look at, yeah, look at us. Okay, you're still the one in control. Yeah, yeah, yeah, look at that, that's another, you know blemish. You know, so to speak, another blemish, I mean just because I'll say it is the United States had their team trials in January, right, yes, and there should be no reason why you don't have your national teams here competing as a group cadet, junior and senior, and I would say specifically cadet and junior, because their event is in April.
Speaker 2:This would have been a fabulous time to bring them all out there. Let them work with the coaches. I mean that's development, that's world-class event. You know, see how they respond blah, blah, blah. Put them in some shirts, give them a uniform, have a meeting, just build some camaraderie and some good team spirit. I mean, I don't see any downside in it, any at all. And instead, oh, just show up. I'm not sure, did they pay for their, their registration or not for kids in the national team. But even that is not enough. I mean it should be easy easy.
Speaker 1:I was about to say I think that's an easy. I mean, again, planning wise, situational wise, having that open right before in our own country, on our home turf, would be, like you said, not only from that, but a great little send-off and, like you said, a chance to actually work with the kids and have them in a, I would say, higher stress environment than normal. And, like you said, they put out a coaching staff or they know who they're going to work with. So I'm going to say that should have been some of the results. It should have looked like that, it should have felt like that and I know you said Cadiz Junior, for me personally, I would like to see the seniors show up as a team. That's just what I feel.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think I'm almost positive that more than about 90-some percent, a lot of our national team members were there and I think that would have been a perfect for me. That's a perfect moment to work with those guys. In those moments, again, there were some big matches. There was some good little matchups this this weekend that I think you know it would have been great to have the national team coaches in the chair, or at least have the team together and it feel like it was a I'll be honest with you the us versus them type situation and I think we that was definitely a missed opportunity on their part.
Speaker 2:I mean, even more specifically, our senior national team coach wasn't even there. I mean, he wasn't even there. I heard he was on vacation or something like that. I'm like you set up your vacation on your biggest domestic tournament Like that just seems I don't need to be there, like I don't get that you couldn't do it the week before or the week after. I mean, that's for me, that's just a bad one. The national team head coach wasn't even present.
Speaker 1:You got to blame the bosses on that one.
Speaker 1:I don't care what you say Someone's got to be like no, no, no, we need you to do it a week later, a week earlier. I need you to do something Because they get the schedule. My problem is they get the schedule first, they build the schedule, they put everything in, so they know when stuff is gonna be. You know what I mean. So I just that that that's a, that's a hard, that's a hard sell. For me it makes no sense. I mean, you guys are ahead of the curve, they're ahead of the curve on that and it doesn't happen. So well, you gotta, you gotta ask yourself a question what?
Speaker 3:what explain it you? You gotta ask yourself a question, um, and the question becomes this the purpose of events? And let me ask you the question what's the biggest? Becomes this the purpose of events? And let me ask you the question what's the biggest in your mind, the biggest impediment to an individual athlete or team's ability to perform at a high level event? What is the biggest impediment when they show up at the event? What's the biggest impediment? What is that the biggest in my mind? And I'll answer the question for myself it's experience. So when you get a kid like my son, he goes to these camps right. Same experience you. And the more experience you have at high level events, the better your results are. The first time I went to um the world cup I was, and it was in the United States. The good news was a year later, I won. The first year. I was like, wow, these guys are good. They're a lot better than I thought.
Speaker 2:And the next, year the guy that won. I beat him.
Speaker 3:I lost to Amir. First one I lost and the reason was I fought this, I got to the final. I got to the final. First one I lost and the reason was I fought this, I got to the final.
Speaker 2:I got to the final, my first one, I'm just saying.
Speaker 3:Well, usually I get to the final, I win. I don't have any silver. I have one silver medal, and that was political.
Speaker 1:All of these silver medal stories keep popping up. They keep popping up out of nowhere.
Speaker 3:Roll back. Roll back because most of you weren't born. So I was fighting in the World Cup it was the first World Cup ever in Colorado Springs and Daesung warns me about this guy and he says I go, oh, I got Egypt, great, excellent, and he's like no man. You know, this guy won a bronze medal in the World Championships. You watch out for him, right? So, sure enough, he was a skilled competitor. We um one of my favorite friends of all time, amir Khadig, and he is a doctor, smart man, smart man. And he took me to school in that match. Like, to be honest, I don't, I can't complain. He understood the game. He shut me down. So I studied him for a year and fought him the next year and beat him the next year. What was the difference? Well, 86 to 87 was experience. 86 to 87, I had one of my best years ever in 87. Six international medals, six gold medals in a row, six TJ six, whatever. So when I made it to a final, I usually won. Tj six, not whatever so. Um, when I made it to a final, I usually won. And that was the experience of going to big shows, big events. Had I not had that experience in the world cup a year prior, I would have went to the world cup in Finland, where I faced Korea in the final, and I wouldn't have had the experience and the sense of presence. So when these kids go to these us opens as a team, they're gaining experience experience in big shows, experience to get off the nerves, experience that's what matters. Now, when you have a coach that's not there and just sends the kids, there's no sage in the room to say here's how you handle it. There's no Gene Hackman in Hoosiers who's saying hey, let's measure the court. Hey, oh my Wow, this is the's measure the court. Hey, oh my wow, this is the same court at home. There's nobody giving them that knowledge. So you set these kids free. If they even show up, then you insult the parents by not paying for it. And then you insult the parents further. They show up and it's a clown show with kids running computers. So you know, it's all a question of perception and how you handle yourself.
Speaker 3:When I go somewhere, I choose the place that I eat, for example. How does it look? How does the food taste? How does the wait staff treat me? If the wait staff doesn't treat me well, I don't go back and here's I'll give you one last recent story.
Speaker 3:I have an 87 year old neighbor. We go to breakfast once a week. We go to IHOP and, unbeknownst to everybody, I'm 65 years old now. So I go in there and we order the five by five, by five, cause he looked, you know, he's an 87 and you know he, he likes us, he doesn't, he likes to save money. So we ordered two and I ordered the same meal and I've ordered it there for a couple of months already and I get the five by five, by five, for the six 55 and over, by, not 65. So I order it.
Speaker 3:The woman mischarges us. By the way, she doesn't tell us there's a $7 special that day for the same meal. So I look at her and I go well, there was a $7 special. She goes well, you know, all right, you didn't. Well, you know, I said I don't, I don't really care about the difference in price, I'm paid anyway. But I get the bill. There's a 55 and older for him and then for the other one it's a regular meal. So I look at her and I go you made another mistake. I said it should have been 255 and older discounts. So she goes oh, now, this was obvious. She didn't want to change her mistake. She goes do you have ID? I go ID ID for what? My credit card. I said can I see your manager for a minute? Now, you made a mistake. You guessed what a manager.
Speaker 2:I have.
Speaker 3:I want, manager, that I have. You made the mistake. Now you want me to give you an idea. I've been here for like two years already eating the same damn meal and you want to make it like my fault. We ordered the right thing. We pointed to the same thing. We order it every time we come in. So I vote with my dollars, guess what? I'm not going to that IHOP anymore, by the way, I don't really love IHOP anyway, but I'll go to a different I hop or I'll go get different. You know Johnny's got a place too, um, but I do.
Speaker 2:I took that as a compliment that you look less than 55.
Speaker 3:She was trying to same waitress every week. She knows I'm, she knows how old I am. By the way, I am handsome, but I do look at least 55. So I don't have that TJ youthful. You know youth run Nevermind. That's the insideful. You know youth run Never mind. That's the inside joke. All right, moving on.
Speaker 2:So for me I mean, as far as the US Open, like you said, I heard next year is going back to Las Vegas, so we'll see if it pumps up, because that tournament needs something, man, it needs some juice, because it was just between USA and Mexico that was about it and not even all the Mexicans fought, so it was just. It didn't seem like that high level. You're right, tj. I think in every Open the last couple matches get pretty good, they get interesting, they get competitive, but I don't think the USs didn't look very dominant on the male or female side. Um, I know we had, I think, five overall gold medals, which is not, it's not bad, but it just didn't seem like there was a lot of metal production, you know, other than those you know specifically.
Speaker 1:So like I said I wasn't there, so I can't say yeah, but also I think that I mean I'm not sure either about the actual numbers of the in medals, but I think you, us, as the country, usa, and there are a lot more medals just because there's a lot less countries there too, you know what I mean like we're filling in a lot of, we're filling in a lot of spots of, you know, the, the quarterfinals matches and the ones before that prior, just because that's just who's in the divisions, but that's just, that's just me.
Speaker 1:Um, but I think I said, I think back to what you were saying a little bit earlier. I think that would have been huge to see the national team there as a whole, kind of see them performing as a whole and kind of with whoever the staff was going to be, and all this stuff, whether it be cadet, juniors or senior level, both ways right. To have experience with those kids in those moments or with those guys in those moments prior to getting to to the world championship, to whatever event they're going to go to, and what they do, would have been for me, that would have been the right thing to do. It would have been an easy thing to do and it was our open, so I don't know how much it would have. I think it would have cost much extra. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So it's high performance plan, that's. I talked about that last week. I don't know. That's my. This is my pet peeve right now. Like coach jennings, you said they, they're the one that put out the schedule. They know ahead of time. So how does the high performance plan not? That's it, hey. And we're going to the us open? Hey, we'll be there. You know, it's just, it's such after the fact, oh, oh, we're going to. It's just unbelievable. That should be the minimum, the bare minimum. So easy.
Speaker 2:And to grab a surprise, what you said about experience. I was going to say that you know I have a little thing that I coined coaching camps and competitions, and you know, as it relates to competitions that give you experience, I believe in the right experience and the right experience. Like you said, the restaurant. You go to a restaurant, the food sucks, the waiter sucks, the place looks ugly. You're not going back. You had experience but you had a bad experience. And so with this, if they can go there with the national team, be coached by the national team, be worked with the national team, video review with the national team, dress like a national team, regardless of your results, you're going to have a good experience because you feel good that you're part of the national team, something that you earned, it's a spree decor right?
Speaker 2:Sure the opposite. The head coach isn't there, they don't go to the junior days, they don't go to the cadet days, they don't outfit you, they don't gather you, they don't acknowledge you and it's just kind of like okay, we'll just take it Again. The minimum, it's easy. Like you said, coach Dennings, it's easy, that's an easy one. We don't even have to think twice about it. How can we sit here afterwards and think about it? And they did it. It's not even our job. I know last week we talked about, you know, if we're going to throw some rocks, give some solutions. You know, like, why should we make the solutions for you guys? How hard can it be to do those things that we just talked about?
Speaker 3:These aren't groundbreaking.
Speaker 3:These aren't groundbreaking. These aren't groundbreaking In groundbreaking. These aren't groundbreaking. In other words, I'm talking about, I'm looking at the can we, I and I still challenge us to do this. One day I want to build some buildings, but on this one, we're not talking about creating something that doesn't exist. This is common sense.
Speaker 3:When you have a team and we've been on a lot of teams together and and the teams that I've I've been leading, I've I've led teams at TJ's on and we you and I've been on teams together, coach we did our best to make that experience meaningful to the athlete, and the reason was they have achieved a certain level demanding and respecting and expecting our respect as a team member. When an athlete comes in who has beaten everyone else in the country and shows up, he should be treated as and this was different when past leaderships. It was like the coaches that mattered under a certain leadership and I don't want to mention the group In our situation we respected the athletes. We treated them like professional players. Hey, you guys have made this level.
Speaker 3:By the way, here are these cool warmups we're going to feed you, we're going to take care of you, we're going to get through the event together. You don't have to worry about anything. Head of team is going to take care of everything. Team manager is going to make sure you have everything you need. Need anything? Let us know one If you treat them like people that don't matter, then they'll perform like people that don't matter. They'll be thinking as you're getting in the ring. They won't be thinking it consciously, but they'll be going oh man, these guys don't take care, I'm going to just I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to stand on business as they say right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my, my big like. Again going back to that I think you said at the beginning, the ones, that two things the ones that have already shown that they've won the situation, or when the team trials, whatever they're on the national team. That's when I saw some stuff online a little bit earlier today or late last night about it was a talk about the original black ops team, when they like to call it, when they just took a bunch of kids and traveled around the country with them or travel around the world with them. Like we have a selection procedure for a reason, like there's a reason why this election procedure in place, why don't we start with the people that are actually on the national team, whether it be juniors and cadets or whatever, and support those guys? Like that's one and two.
Speaker 1:I've heard in the past that, oh, they've never, they've never supported the juniors. Like my junior team trip was a hundred percent paid for a hundred percent of that. It's like food, flight, hotel registration, uniform equipment and when I say food, food, we were getting money every day for food to make sure we ate well. Like it's very, very, very, very simple. So anyone that's heard that that myth about they've never supported the junior teams. Yes, it's, it's complete bs like and to that point like, once you do all this work, you go to your states, you go to your regionals, you go to this term, you do this term and you win team trials and then they're like oh yeah, by the way, you got to pay to go to brazil.
Speaker 1:That would have. That would have deterred me early in my career. My parents would have been like way, way, way, hold up. We've spent all this money to get you here and now you've made it to the top of the country and we still got to pay out money for a flight. We still got to pay for a hotel. We still got to do these things. Then what is it a national team for?
Speaker 3:Like well, here's the math. You want to know and I'll give you the math. Take the salaries and the support and the plane flights for all the staff I'm just talking about CEO, coo, whoever's in the building and wherever they are in some forest in Kentucky. Take the staff and all these people, add up that number and then take the support that they give to the junior team for travel to events. And if those numbers are I know what the numbers are and I know what the results are going to be If the one number is bigger for staff than it is for support of the junior teams, then you've reversed the pyramid and you're not doing your job. At the end of the day, every dime United Way is one of the best charities and the reason it is 80% of the money of the dollar and the US Olympic Committee is actually better goes towards athletes, supporting athletes, to go to events, to finance athletes. If that number is here, then you're doing your job.
Speaker 3:If the number is reversed in other words, jay Warwick, for example, is getting on a plane to go shake hands with my favorite person, cho, and go to a dinner and sit I've been at those dinners paying my own way Then that money's misspent. Jay Warwick doesn't need to be on a plane, steve McNally never needs to see another plane and, to be quite frankly, gareth Brown needs to see one more plane and that's back to the country, to whence he came from, and he can join Paul Green and they can go drink pints in whatever small pub they can find. Because if our junior athletes aren't being financed, their future is not being financed, the future of the sport, the kids who need it, the ones that need money. Juan Moreno and Herb Perez and TJ Jennings couldn't afford the trips we went on unless they paid. I see your fingers moving, tj, my biggest thing is because.
Speaker 1:Then we, because my biggest thing is when we, you know, before we were talking about the statistics and like how all the Olympians are getting younger. So we're not looking at 16 to 18, 19. If we're not looking at them and we're just focused on whatever groups already probably above that age and been around for a while, then are we taking the best route to be successful. Forget the future In 2028? I don't understand.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go back and I want to come back real fast, because we talk about support and again, I don't know. All I know is our national team 58, who's supposedly moving to the Academy. That's what I heard. This. Could they can confirm it again? Deny it that he's supposed to move into the Academy? He was coached by a Canadian, not one other American coach. Now if he said, maybe he said that maybe he goes, you know what I like this guy. I want him to coach me. But I can't believe one of the academy coaches didn't come out there and say, hey, you're going to be coming out, let us work with you. They didn't help him. So that's weird.
Speaker 2:But to your point, we want to always talk about how scientific we are, the plan we have, how we know everything, how our system is the best. And you are exactly right, tj. The statistics say how young the Olympic level athletes are. The statistics say how young the Olympic level athletes are, so theoretically, we should be looking at a 15, 16-year-old right now. So in the next two and a half three years they're 18, 19. That should be our target. No-transcript. I'm a fan. I'm a fan of some of these other people, but you're not doing the right thing. Looking for the future, you're just, and again, this is what tells me that they don't care about the health of the system. They don't care about the real future. It's right now. It's right now.
Speaker 3:They don't have anybody in the building to understand the system, juan. So let me be clear Obviously, high performance. There's something called a pipeline pipeline, and this is not hard to figure out. And so if you look at the soccer pipeline cause it's one I'm most familiar with right now it's massive. The soccer pipeline in the United States is massive. So when these kids try to go to colleges, 1% to 3% of the kids that play soccer in this country will have an opportunity to play soccer in college. That doesn't mean the pipeline's broken. It means the pipeline's functioning.
Speaker 3:You have this huge funnel of amazing talent that you're investing in and they go to to put it in our perspective, they go to a dojo. That's the basic AYSO level. They then go to a club, which is a level up. You'd think that's more like a high-performing team. Then they go to the next level up, which is an academy. That's like a peak performance. Once you get to the academy level, you're getting sophisticated information because you've shown that you can absorb it. You're performing, you're getting support. When you go to a professional academy, you're on track to become a professional player. And a good friend of ours from Canada his son plays MLS next down here T-O remember him, so I can't remember DeSantos DeSantos and his kid's playing high level soccer here and he went through that process and they take care of those kids. Kids don't pay in academies. They go, they travel, they get everything taken care of and they're treated Even though there's many other clubs that are good. They're treated and mentioned and handled and coached because they see the future in these kids and then when they go to colleges like D1s, their future professional players, these kids, the college coaches are treating them like this. So in our situation, if you don't fill the pipeline, if you can't fill a team trials, that's demonstrative of the fact you don't have a pipeline. If you focus on what is, in the future, called pipeline blockers, or Herb Perez or Juan Moreno well, not Juan, but in your later years In my run, by the time I got to the Olympic level, there was no need to invest in me anymore because I was a pipeline blocker.
Speaker 3:I had ruined the pipeline, I had taken everybody in it and just beat them, but I wasn't the future. I had one last game, that was the Olympics. Then don't spend any more effort or money on me anywhere near it, except to support me to get there because the future was behind me. Peter Bardatos, billy, whatever all these kids that were going to come up. Sean Burke, don't invest in me. Invest in the future at the same time that you're investing in the guy who's there, the guy on the bubble, they call it you need to be investing in the guys who are coming through the pipeline and identifying where we got TJ from and TJ may not remember that was you, me, bob Gambardello, someone else I won't mention. We held a camp and we saw guys like TJ. We saw Bernard Posey, we saw all these guys that James Howe you remember and we said these are the future. And guess what? We were right. And what did we do? We invested and we did. And where did they end up? Us teams Invest in the future.
Speaker 2:I was going to say like I mean, listen again at the minimum, and I understand the soccer, it's a bigger pool, okay, but at least listen. We have state championship, we have membership, we have state championships, we have now regionals, we have nationals, we have us open.
Speaker 3:None, none. That's what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 2:They're supposed to go to the juniors. I know, I agree, and that's what I'm saying. You're right, tj. I mean, there's all these people that are new school and people talk about old school. Listen, don't let anybody tell you that it's never been done. They've always paid their way. No that is not true.
Speaker 1:And our country is big enough and should be strong enough. I know cadets are a relatively new thing, but they should be funding the cadets too. Like it's a they're going to. They got cadet world championships and cadet championships Like these. All this stuff, whether you like it or not, it matters and it can't. It can't go unsighted, it can't go. I think I said that in one of the one of our uh earlier in one of the other episodes. Like I was surrounded by great staff and great people and, and, and, and they had a vision of where it was supposed to go and what it was supposed to look like. And I'm not knocking nobody on nobody's staff, so don't, don't, don't even try to take me there. But I'm saying that we were being coached by the. If they're the best in our country, our head coaches were there on ground, 10 toes down with us when we were juniors.
Speaker 3:Your coaches are supposed to be constantly improving. Your coaches are supposed to be coaching and improving incrementally every day. No coach is perfect and coaches need experience too, and if you're not on the mat at every major event, you're not doing your job. You've got to be showing up to these events. My coach, my son's team, got a red card, got a yellow on a yellow, got a red card. The next day there's an event you don't have to come. You got a red card. He's not allowed to coach. Came sat in the stands still working. Why?
Speaker 2:Because he's a professional coach.
Speaker 3:You should want to be there. I don't want to watch there. You should be there. It's Reno. These coaches don't want to be there. I got it. They should be there.
Speaker 2:That's your job.
Speaker 3:I'm teasing you, I'm going to take one.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I get it, but you're teasing. But you're right, because they're not there. Tj, you're right, they're not really invested in being there all day. You know what You've got to be tired. That's my job. My job is to go to Reno and to be there cadet in junior day and then come back the next day. I got two days I'm going to be tired. I come back on Monday. I can sleep.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean when is this training center?
Speaker 1:Is it in North Carolina? Yeah, it's at the University. I've never actually seen it.
Speaker 3:So North Carolina to Reno about the same, like I mean you know, like if you're in Reno. I got it. It's far, but my point is like about the same amount of stuff to do. You got IHOP and you got whatever.
Speaker 2:I had just a quick change, a quick subject. I have some information, maybe for people listening, you know they have this in Cadetero, mexico, in April.
Speaker 2:They got the Cadet and Junior Pan American Championships. But they have a couple of different events going on too. They have the final Under-22 Pan Am Series I think this is going to be the fourth one and the accumulation of all those tournaments whoever is in the top eight go to the Junior Pan American series. I think this is going to be the fourth one and the accumulation of all those tournaments whoever is in the top eight go to the junior Pan American Games. So it's the last one. But, tj, listen to this news If you go to that tournament, even if you don't finish in the top eight for the overall rankings, if you just finish in the top eight of that tournament, you qualify for the senior Pan Ams next year.
Speaker 2:So people can go to this tournament. You get in the top eight men and women, every division. You get to go to the Pan Am Championships next year. For the cadets and juniors they have the national team championship, but they also have an open and if you get first or second in that open you get to go to next year's Pan American Championships as well. So there's a lot on the line for people to go to this tournament to get wild cards to circumvent the national team to get to these G4 events.
Speaker 1:So it's a good opportunity. It really is. And you're saying just to clarify, and you're saying and you're saying just to clarify, you're saying top eight finish at this one event, one quarterfinal finish at this one event qualifies you for next year's pan am championships, as a senior pan am championships and of course this last tournament also will add into the total for those other three events, plus this last one, the total four points but there's at least three right, you have to at least done three events.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they change it to three or left it to two, I'm not quite sure. But you know my point is some people were like why should I go to this tournament? Because I can't. I can't crack the top eight. There's another, uh, american in my division already way ahead of me. I can can't, there's no way I can jump them. But you can get yourself a wild card for next year Pan Am championship. So it's definitely worth going and I would. I would imagine it's going to be loaded with some, some, a lot of Mexican athletes and you know there's a lot of good state level Mexican champions over there. I mean they don't make their national team, it's going to. It could be some yeah it champions over there. I mean they don't make their national team, it's gonna, it could be some, uh, yeah, it could be packed, it could be rough, it could be good. So if you got, if you're out there thinking about it, you're on the fence.
Speaker 3:I highly suggest it yeah, so I want, I want to I want to transition to this uh, a personal topic as far as uh, as far as taekwondo goes, and and um, it's another conversation doesn't really have much to do with, um, much of anything else. So, as most of you know already, because I'm the grandmaster of disaster, I'm a ninth don black belt, certified by the kooky one, and in that, in that capacity, I'm one of seven Americans, maybe seven male, seven Americans that have that distinction. And most recently, they've created this thing where they went out and they hypothetically said we're going to create these kukiwan branches in the United States, and they went out unilaterally, picked one ethnicity, as they always have done historically, and so it really calls into question as bad as the USA Taekwondo situation is and as bad as the, to be frank, the world Taekwondo situation is with regard to leadership. This is even worse the Kukiwan USA debacle because then they went out and they named a handful of people, and then they named people to lead the organization and they're not ninth dons. They're not ninth dons and, in addition to that, they have no history of creating content, delivering programming.
Speaker 3:These are guys that ran dojongs in the middle of nowhere, in Rochester, new York, for example, which I apologize to those of you that live in Rochester, it's in the middle of nowhere if you're not from New York City. So this is something that I'm going to be talking about a lot, and I have been talking about a lot, about a lot, and I have been talking about a lot. We've heard this story for many years and the story is one day, this will all be yours. So, as a guy who's been here since one day and started Taekwondo when I was very, very young, that was what I heard One day, this will all be yours, when you're ready. So I beg and this is the same for, for it's parallel to what we're talking about here when will you be ready? In other words, when will uh, if a herb perez isn't ready, ninth don olympic gold medalist, pan am games, whatever, whatever ran the coaching program for usa taekwondo. Was head of the education program for the for the wt, uh technical director for the WT, technical director for the WT. If a Herb Perez isn't ready, when will anyone be ready?
Speaker 3:I created the content that USA Taekwondo uses for their coaching program, along with Coach Moreno and a few others. So this is something you'll hear me talk about more, but it's endemic in the sport. How can we expect the things that we're talking about? You got to think about what the root of the problem is. The root of the problem is nepotism, favoritism, xenophobia and nationalism, and in one case, it manifests itself in the kooky one in a uniformly ethnically non-diverse group running a sport with little or no expertise. So go in and try to use the t-con website as an example.
Speaker 3:This is horrible, and the education stuff which I was involved in with them for a while is horrible, and it's because it's. That's the problem. You look at theT's leadership and the problems it has. It has a fake diversity that goes along in it because there's one person that runs a show and it's a nepotistic thing. All right, let's go to USA Taekwondo how is it not the same? They just exited certain people from the building and now it's a non-meritocracy. A non-meritocracy, it's based upon relationships and how deep you're willing to bow. Are you willing to kiss the ring? Are you willing not to say they suck, and then you may get a chair at the table. Well, that leaves third and fourth tier people, because first and second and third tier people don't put up with that nonsense. Be like, I'm okay, I don't need this, so service is always an award-giving game.
Speaker 1:It's an award-giving game, though, like when they talk about them being the best NGB in the world. What research is going to give them the best NGB in the world? I don't know what that means. And then we're sitting here, we're watching our cadet and junior teams and we're just talking about not being funded Spain, spain, spain. Spain makes more money in development than any other.
Speaker 2:NGB, I don't know the other ones, but it used to be Spain. I would say this. I would say this I mean, you made a good point. You know Young. You said when will he be ready? People always say, oh, you'll be ready. You're of age, you're of rank, you're of experience, you've been in multiple roles, why not? It's the same thing for TJ. Oh, you're not ready. What I coached at a damn Grand Prix final, you can't coach at a Pan Am Games. And yet they bring this other kid that's never coached at a Pan Am Games and it's okay for him. So stop, you're right.
Speaker 2:Whether it's in I don't know much about the cookie one whether it's in that culture, whether it's in USAT culture. And now I mean again, we talked about it last week and I want to keep doing this, but the gloves are off in the sense of everybody knows. Quit whispering about it. We know what the real deal is. You got people in the organization that haven't had schools, that haven't had clubs, that haven't developed athletes, that just got positioned there and now are running it and they kind of will say I'm successful because I'm here. No, you're not.
Speaker 2:People have been given to. You're working with people. You sit in the chairs. You should be. They're the best of the best, but you didn't deserve to be there. You haven't earned your way there and if you took those people out and inserted people that should be, you would see the level go through the roof. You would see the energy, you see the experience, you would see the real love and understanding of the game and the sport and of the organization. You would see it fly out. But until they change that, it won't.
Speaker 3:Love or hate the AAU. Love or hate the AAU, if you want a case and a business case for success. And he's recently departed for personal reasons, bobby Stone. So when I met this guy, this was a guy who went into the AAU, created success, created a huge organization because he was inclusive, he was meritocracy based. I'm not saying he didn't have his own personal group of people that he thought would do the job, but what I will say is this he went out and found the best and the brightest and he empowered people and he listened to people and he put people in coaching chairs and I've never met a person to say anything bad about the guy. Nobody speaks badly about the guy. And so here's an example of one organization AAU Taekwondo, growing exponentially. And where has USA Taekwondo growing exponentially? And where has usa taekwondo gone?
Speaker 3:Well, I was in usa, whatever the version of it was, way, way, way back when, and I can tell you it has lesser members now than it did 40 years ago when I was competing for the 40, 50 years ago. And so, like I said, with restaurants like uh, coach took me, coach moreno took me to this wonderful ceviche place, peruvian I think it was Peruvian, unbelievable. I'm going to go back there and go back there every time I go to Miami. And good service, good food, good people, and they took care of us when we went there. And I'm sure you can't get in there certain nights of the week. Well, guess what? There's always a table at USA Taekwondo. It's empty. Come on in, it's always empty. We'll serve you. It's bad food, but at least you get some food.
Speaker 2:So I mean, that's really the question.
Speaker 3:Just show up, just show up, show up. And if a guy doesn't show up, he doesn't feel good that day you'll show up and it's a shame because we deserve better. In a country of 330 million people we're in virtually every other sport. It's competitive and at a high level. You would say. Taekwondo continues to flail when it doesn't need to. We have some of the best resources in the world. We have well-heeled parents that, even if that's the question, the parents can do it, but they're not getting the information, the technique or the success matrix.
Speaker 3:And my one dig on soccer, just to compare it you have no idea how it works. I have no idea what pathway. I know the one pathway which we're on works, but I have no idea. There's multiple pathways, tons of kids, so they have all these different pathways. Taekwondo has a pathway but nobody joins it, so they have kind of a more direct thing. But I'll tell you this too the average soccer player in soccer compared to the average taekwondo athlete in taekwondo is not comparable. You could, I could, take the top tier of soccer kids, athletically skill-wise, sport, intelligence, iq, and they're better. Why? Because the pipeline's better.
Speaker 3:Now in taekwondo the pipeline doesn't exist. It's selectively. It's selectively deselective because the people in power want that to be the case. A black ops team what are we in the CIA? You have a black ops team. We had trials. It was called show up, fight, get good enough and maybe you get to leave the country. And guess what? We had the best results ever because it was harder to get out of the country than it was to fight Guatemala. Anyway, it's the old man cranky man that was true.
Speaker 3:All right Well so anything else before we close up shop today?
Speaker 2:I was just a congratulations to all the people that went out to the term in these last two the Canada and us open, you know. Congratulations on your results and uh, hopefully you guys will continue to work hard and get bigger and better and next week we another topic, another topic pj um, no, I don't got too much, but I, like I said us opens done with, we got two out of the way for the year.
Speaker 1:Just looking forward to the rest of the year and some other events, I'll say I'm going to do this. I know we were talking about being fans earlier. I know we kind of went back and forth a little bit, but shout out to I'm going to say shout out to CJ for holding it down on the men's side. Again, he showed up at the US Open, which historically was and it's always a tough division in 80. Interesting, so congratulations.
Speaker 3:Good on him, Good on his performance. How was his outfit though I didn't check his TikTok yet how was his outfit?
Speaker 3:Was he representing? Was it as good as the Budo stuff I'm wearing? Well, as always, great time again. My Taekwondo brothers and my recently gold medal coach, TJ elevated I see you still haven't changed your screen name and Coach Moreno. We got a lot of work ahead of us. We got a lot to say, a lot to do, but I'm going to say I want to put out my congratulations to anyone that went to Reno and survived Reno, and I'm not talking about the tournament, just the fact that you went to Reno. So I live pretty close to Reno. I don't live close to Reno, but it's in my drivable distance and I can proudly say I've never driven to Reno. But this has been the warehouse 15 and it's longer than 15. And there's a reason it is 15. Have we had a winner yet for our swag? Because I got the swag ready to go. We're going to pick a winner and there was silence.
Speaker 2:All right, we're going to figure out, we'll get one winner for the swag.
Speaker 3:All right, gentlemen. All right, let's stop recording.