Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Tights Changed My Life: The Unexpected Secret of Success
What defines a great athlete? Is it inherent talent or the influence of dedicated coaching and training? In this episode, we unpack the long-standing debate of nature versus nurture in sports. Featuring engaging discussions, personal anecdotes, and insights from three experienced coaches, we explore the complex journey that athletes undertake to reach greatness.
From the excitement of training camps to unexpected fashion statements in the gym, our hosts share their personal experiences that shaped them into the athletes they are today. We unpack the metaphor of "weeds and flowers" to illustrate the disparities between naturally gifted athletes and those who thrive through determination and relentless hard work.
As our conversation evolves, we highlight the critical role that mentorship and effective coaching play in sculpting raw talent into extraordinary competence. Our hosts reflect on their relationships with mentors who not only honed their physical skills but instilled a sense of respect, discipline, and sportsmanship, underlining the importance of these traits in any athlete's journey.
We also discuss how cultural shifts have altered the expectations for athlete behavior, pushing for a balance between performance and etiquette in sports. With each story, we encourage listeners to reflect on their own journeys, the coaches who impacted their lives, and the ingredients that stimulated their unique paths to success. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that challenges perceptions of athleticism and reaffirms the balance between being born and being made. Listen, engage, and discover what truly makes an athlete great!
to the warehouse 15 and we are back again, and I am the Grandmaster of Disaster, as usual, joined by my colleagues, cohorts and contemporaries. How are you doing today, Coach Moreno?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great. First of all, I'm digging that shirt right there, Coach TJ, you like that? I just saw the picture and I'm like that's the joint, right there I'm good guys, I'm excited, I'm going. That's the joint right there. I'm good guys.
Speaker 2:I'm excited. I'm going to Chicago tomorrow for one of my fast camps. I have one this month and then I have one next month and actually you're part of the Neck of the Woods Coach Grandmaster Perez in Northern California. So yeah, just got a fresh haircut I know you're looking for those century rip cords and I'm going to send my boys century.
Speaker 3:They'll get them for the next camp. I didn't realize it was for tomorrow, my bad. So we have the beautiful century rip cords, which were designed many years ago. Coach Moreno and I used them at my first camp for another company and then I brought them to century and within a day they had a prototype for us and they came up with a black, a red and a green, and so they're still the state of the art. Um, how you doing today, coach.
Speaker 4:TJ, wake up. I'm telling, I'm telling you second my name. I'm telling, I'm telling, I'm telling your award.
Speaker 3:I mean, I know it's hard man.
Speaker 4:I got my guitars still in the right order up there for you yeah, and I'm chilling, having a good day, just, you know, excited to always sit down and talk to you guys.
Speaker 2:I'm sure we got something good for today, so I'm just just before we start, because I know last time you gave out a shout out to your people that you kind of worked with a little bit. So I gotta give a shout out today. And I don't have my product here, it's at my gym I feel bad. But at Top TKD, well, they have a Taekwondo shoe out. I purchased a couple of pairs a little while ago. Had some issues with the size. They hooked me up. So a shout out to Top TKD. I like the shoes I'm going to. When I get them next week I'll make sure I bring them in. I'll display them. But pretty good so far I like them I got this funky blue color.
Speaker 3:Sifu Harinda Singh, thank you again. I am wearing my second Budo jacket with the beautiful blue interior, the red one's on the chair. I wanted to break out the blue, but I'll have a phone call made for you guys. Just send me some sizes and we'll see if we can get you. But Budo Brothers again, thank you, thank you, thank you. I know you put out excellent training videos. You work with Sifu Harinda Singh and others and some great martial artists. I know you started, but this jacket, I mean Moreno, you would look so good in this jacket I can't even tell you what's what?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, look you guys look good today. But no offense, but this is my. I'm going to give a shout-out to my boy, peter Bardatos. I got my Peter Bardatos. I got my white v-neck and jeans on. This is like an undershirt right here, boy.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's classic.
Speaker 4:That's classic. I got to find a sponsor now I got to plug somebody, hey, if y'all need to plug. Let me know I got time next week. You better find a clock.
Speaker 3:You got to be able to find a clock sponsor, an alarm sponsor. You know he's a little late on our calls. We lost Moreno, left the building.
Speaker 2:Did immigration show up? What happened, Flow man?
Speaker 3:what happened?
Speaker 2:What's flow?
Speaker 3:What's flow?
Speaker 2:Come on, man, Help your thinking and stuff like this man. You ever seen this?
Speaker 1:You want to know something. Somebody did tell me about it.
Speaker 3:Somebody told me about it.
Speaker 1:Well, they keep trying to get me to go back to coffee.
Speaker 3:They want me to change my coffee up for mushrooms and I'm like no man, I'm going to take them.
Speaker 4:Have you tried mushroom coffee?
Speaker 3:I have not. But I also have not tried the coffee where it's eaten by an animal and then they poop it out and you take those beans and make coffee. So yeah, I pretty much stay away from those kind of things. You tried it? Have you tried it, is it?
Speaker 4:like Peruvian or something like that.
Speaker 3:A Cevet yeah.
Speaker 4:No, I want to try it no.
Speaker 3:Well, the Cevet coffee is like $100 a pound. So I'm just philosophically opposed to anything that was pooped out and then made into coffee, which again that's one of my problems.
Speaker 2:And you got to pay $100 for it.
Speaker 3:One of my problems with the USAT membership. But we got a lot of things to talk about today. But you know, we had an interesting offline comment and topic. Coach Moreno and I, you know, we, um, we talk a lot and and we get on a lot of different topics and subjects that are important and crucial. And this one I have to I have to lark in it back.
Speaker 3:I had met an athlete a lot of years ago and when I met him I saw a lot of potential in this athlete and when I brought him to my mentor, um Harvey Berkey, harvey said he's going to be good but he's not going to be a world champion, because there's something you can't teach that to somebody, you can only have it. And that brought the question that to somebody, you can only have it. And that brought the question are great athletes? I'm not talking about good athletes, I'm talking about role-changing people that redefine the sport. Are those type of athletes created or are they born? Is it genetic or is it nature versus nurture? What are your, what, what are your guys' thoughts on this, this kind of idea?
Speaker 4:If you had to ask me. I think it's a mix of both. I think you gotta have a little something and you gotta be given a lot of something, and then if those two somethings align, then you are. You too can be special. You too can be, like you said, game changing or history changing or even moment changing. I think we got to look at it that way because you know, a lot of times when we talk about top-level athletes, then until now I think it comes down to generation and then the moment of what were those athletes surrounded by and what were the difficulties or hardships or you know, the big wins for those guys. So I think it's a little mix of both.
Speaker 4:Me personally, I definitely want to say minimum 50-50. I think I was athletic when I started. I think I could do some things, but Taekwondo wasn't my first draw. I played other sports. Once I got into Taekwondo, I just kind of fell in love with it and I think it took me falling in love with the process to kind of be able to maybe the worlds align. I ended up with the right coaches at the right time. I know I said it in one podcast, but I don't think I've ever had a bad coach in my entire life. So for that I think it's definitely 50-50, 60-40 coaching. But that's just me.
Speaker 3:Well, I knew that you were yeah. I knew that you had a career in synchronized swimming before this, but I didn't know about the other sports.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was great. That was great. That was great. They had to get off that team in high school because I started doing it. Coach wanted me there early and late and I couldn't perform under the circumstances. Tough to be in the water that long.
Speaker 3:But I heard you were quite a sight in that little singlet, but nobody can see. But Coach Moreno is falling off his chair. So anyway, Coach.
Speaker 2:On that note, I got to hold on. No, no, you went there. I'm going to go with this classic Warehouse 15 story. So okay, you know everybody wears athletic clothes and you know Miami is hot, oh my gosh. You know most of the ladies, most of our female athletes, wear like tights, and you know long tights like runner's tights or tight shorts. So one day, tj, one of my other athletes, ruf, one of my, one of my, maybe one of my most physically gifted athletes I've ever had.
Speaker 2:They're like, hey, how come the girls get to wear tights and we have to wear like sweatpants and shorts? I'm like you wear them. They're like, okay. So one day tj and rufus show up in tights long black skin, tight tights and I was like I was. I thought, okay, whatever, I mean I don't really care. But every mom in the building was like this. They watched that whole damn practice, sweating, sweating boy in that in the warehouse. It was like okie dokie, no more tights for the guys, but tights changed my life.
Speaker 4:If you, if you could never try the chain and tights, please go get you a pair of tights. Do it privately if you have to, but it's it's life changing. You have no restrictions. You can do whatever you want. Also, you're more flexible, can like, do this stuff. You're good to go.
Speaker 3:I had a student who was the vice president of Danskin, which is the first spandex company that made tights and shorts for ballet dancers, and so he would bring me I would wear under my uniform the short version of the tights you know the dancers wear, and it kept to be honest, it keeps your muscles warm and everything else Besides making you eye candy for all the moms in your class, I guess. But there's a lot of reasons to wear tights, but I do like the quote, which the quote is tights changed my life.
Speaker 3:I think that's going to be this week's clip for the internet. That's the viral thing. Tj says tights changed his life. I think that's going to be this week's clip for the internet. That's the viral thing. Tj says tights changed his life. I like it, I like it.
Speaker 2:I know I remember wearing them back in the day. I've under my dough bug pants and I used to like them because, you're right, it kind of kept your muscles warm. But I actually liked it because my uniform would just kind of slide on it. It wouldn't catch on my body. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:But also the sweat too, because there used to be a lot of us training in miami and everybody was sweaty and gross and putting the tights on kind of kept some of the guys from just making it completely messy all over the place. So I think, like I said, I agree, yeah, but it wasn't so much, it wasn't so much it wasn't so much what you said, it was the way you said it.
Speaker 3:You said tights changed my life. So um, on this, back to the topic anyway, which which has nothing to do with tights sorry, I say that yeah, but uh the uh.
Speaker 3:The truth is, you know, when you think about great athletes and you can take any sport messy ronaldo for soccer, obviously, and others in that sport, or Taekwondo, jungkook Young and guys like this Was a Jungkook Young born or was he bred Like? He had a legacy? He went through and went to one of the best universities and one of the best elementary schools and trained with the best coaches and then was subject to the best coaches. Was that in his genetic makeup, I mean, or was it something? Can you take an average athlete and make them a great athlete? Can you teach them to have perseverance, determination, patience, whatever it is, and make them a great athlete? Or is there going to be a step or a bridge too far once you get them just to a certain level? Because the amount of dedication and pain that you have to endure and what it really takes, most people don't understand. So I mean, can you take I want to think of somebody we know. I'm going to try to think of somebody on the US team.
Speaker 3:So there was a guy that used to come to the training center, stephen Shin, and he was a nice guy. He was an average athlete and he worked as hard as anybody could work, he was never going to be a world champion. He wasn't going to be a USA team member. You can take other athletes a little further up the pole. I don't want to mention their names. They made the US team but they were never going to be a world champion. They were, at best, a bronze medalist or not. Talking about you, tj, but I'm talking about guys that we all know you finally got it right but the guys we all know that they were never going to be pinnacle toppers, they were never going to be apex, predators, predators. So is that something that's just in you or is it something that you, as a coach, can take an athlete with a decent skill set, a decent body type and make them great? Can you make somebody great?
Speaker 2:So let me go. Let me let me chime in here for a second when? Let me ask the question when do we determine if somebody is great? At what point of their career? When it's over, or later on, after they've proven? So sometimes it's interesting when we say Muhammad Ali was great, michael Jordan was great, kobe Bryant, tiger Woods, Serena Williams, you name it. We can see them going on that path, but we determine that they're great probably towards the end or when they're finished. Matter of fact, a lot of athletes get determined that they're great when they weren't great, but when they're done, we like to throw a lot of shine on them.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to say, first and foremost people don't like to hear it you have to have certain God-given talents, whether it's flexibility, whether it's height, whether it's genetics, whether it's height, whether it's speed, whether it's strength. I think you know, because if I didn't believe I could teach and develop an athlete, you know, to a certain level of success, I wouldn't coach, I wouldn't coach. I believe you could teach people discipline and patience and dedication and commitment. I believe you could teach, you know, help them gain speed, power, flexibility. I think you could teach them an IQ of the game. If I didn't, I wouldn't do what I've been doing for the last 25 years. But I think, at the end of the day, there is an X factor. Let's be honest. Some people innately have a bite, some people innately have an intellect, some people innately have a patience, and I think those people that have maybe all of that, they are the ones that become great. Michael Jordan, my favorite athlete of all time, for obvious reasons. But if he didn't have Phil Jackson, maybe he would have never been great. Maybe he needed the right teacher, the right coach, the right system to make him great. I know, we'll never know. You could say. I think that we could put him anywhere, probably, but that man built a system for him to flourish and he became great. I think there's a lot of amazing athletes and a lot of high level athletes that maybe didn't get that proper mentorship. I mean my grandma's, president.
Speaker 2:I mentioned your son. You told me oh, my son has a. You know he's a natural athlete. I said, is he, or is he because you trained them to be? Because you, you instilled in him a work ethic. You instilled in him an intellect of understanding the game. You, you instilled in him a work ethic. You instilled in him an intellect of understanding the game, you instilled in him how to become coachable, and for that he's risen to where he's at right now. And yes, he's long and lanky, yes, he's strong. But is that nature or is that nurture? I mean, it's a really.
Speaker 4:It's a tough, tough question, but I think it's got to be nurture I didn't cut you off, but listening to that it's more nurture than nature. I mean, if I think about, like my story when I was younger I wouldn't say when I started I wasn't the toughest kid in the world, like I was in the room surviving over and over and over and over again. I think my coach at the time, coach Remarque, saw that I needed to be in there and do a little bit more. He took steps along the way that at some point kind of changed me into a different direction. I'm not saying I'm great. What I'm saying is that I've had the ability to live in a world that when I started I don't think I was ahead of by any shot. So definitely I'm nurturing more than nature for me.
Speaker 2:How about this? Who's the best quarterback ever? Is Tom Brady the best quarterback ever? He doesn't have natural ability. Well, he's the most winning one. I mean, people call him the GOAT right as a quarterback. But think about that. You've seen all the videos of how skinny he is and how he wasn't first in starting quarterback at any level until he got you know. Obviously, when he won the Super Bowl, then things changed for him and he developed himself.
Speaker 4:You know, you look at a Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2:He has an X factor, but you look at his body he's not muscular, he's not super tall, he's fast, he's smart, his IQ is off the chart, right, his creativity is off the chart. So I just think that you know, we can look at some athletes that are lebron james, the dude's, whatever. He is, six, six, 240, built like a run, I mean he's, he's, that's a great body, that's a great god-given body and he worked at his craft. I mean, I'm not a huge lebron fan but I give props, for you know credit where credit is due. Come on, man. I mean, the guy is crazy, you know so. But I think at the end of the day, the special ones are special. Me and one of my, my uh coaches asked me actually I'm sorry, no, it was, it was you, tj. We have, you know, some athletes and you said do I fix this person?
Speaker 2:you, know, they, they do all this stuff and I'm like, I mean, my, my instinct is like, yes, make it correct, but there's certain people you don't fix. They're so unique and they're so good. I mean, I mean, I know everyone thinks I blow you up, but I'll use you. You, you didn't kick right, you didn't kick the classic way, you didn't move the classic way, but you were in and if anyone tried to do it, they would have, they would have screwed you up. I don't know what. I don't know if you were, you were hard-headed or you were smart, but you didn't change because maybe you knew your body and you said I can't do it like that, it'll make me worse. So yeah, so so for me like yeah, those unique.
Speaker 3:I know it's a good question, right? So, like I me like, and you know me long enough to know basically I realized that I couldn't ever do the traditional round kick, side kick, whatever it was. I had to do something that worked for my body. I needed to not hurt my body. So if it was something that I was doing, it was going to and it served me well. Right, I haven't had to have my knees replaced, my hips replaced, whatever.
Speaker 3:But then you both said something which I want to kind of get back to, which is and I've talked about this before weeds and flowers. There are athletes that are weeds and no matter what you do to them, they're going to stay and succeed because they just are weeds. They don't need anything. They're going to figure it out, they're going to work hard, they're going to do whatever. Flowers, like you said, are nurtured.
Speaker 3:Tom Brady's a flower. That guy wasn't a natural athlete. He got in with a great coach and, because he was in a great coach, became a great athlete and became a better athlete, like, got smart enough. And I'll put Stephen Lopez in that category. Stephen Lopez, he was terrible at taekwondo. He wasn't good at taekwondo His first few years he was just a gifted specimen. He was a tall, lanky, strong kid with a ridiculous amount of tenacity and then he got extremely good at Taekwondo. He was a Tom Brady kind of guy.
Speaker 3:But if you take a great and here's the question If you took a Patrice Remarque right and you put him in the right laboratory, he becomes Patrice Remarque. But Patrice Remarque probably becomes Patrice Remarque regardless, because he was a weed. But if you take a Scott Moranty, for example big, tall guy, little, slow, good athlete but was he ever going to be an Olympic gold medalist? Could you have trained Scott Moranty with all the tools that you're? And here's where you both are saying the same thing. You're saying you can take an athlete and make them better and get the most out of them, and so that's the job of a coach or a coaching program. You get more out of an athlete than they would have gotten out of it by themselves. But our conversation is above that. It's not. Can you make it better? And you're both right, because if it weren't possible, then we don't need coaches. Just put a bunch of guys in a room, the weeds will figure it out and they'll rise to the top of the pile and they'll win, and those are what I call deep water swimmers. And you guys hear me, because it's like current.
Speaker 3:Now I'm dealing with my son, and you're right, I nurtured my son. He's got a body like you, juan, and TJ. He's a lanky and TJ he's a lanky, muscular, strong kid, but skinny like 160 and change almost six foot, and so that kid is a deep water swimmer. You throw him in deeper water, he swims to the top of the pool, no matter what the size of the ocean. So what I'm talking about are deep water swimmers. In other words, are those kind of kids genetically or are they a combination of genetics and access, like you've pointed out? Or if that's not the case, I'm still talking about that guy that we've been on with, the guys we've been on teams with that never seemed to get to the top of the pyramid and they had all the talent and ability in the world and they're in the same room as you and I.
Speaker 2:Well, how about this one? I'll ask you this TJ Like, for example how many athletes have you seen that you're like, oh my gosh, tall, skinny, flexible, fire, whatever and do things come too easy and for some reason they don't have that, that, that grind that some other kid goes, you know has? I mean I've had, I don't know. I feel like in Miami I've had a ton of talented people and they come and they go, they come and they go, but I get that one grinder that's pretty talented but works hard, and they're the ones that last. I mean, you know, what do you? What do you think about that? Do you think it comes too easy? They, they, they leave too easy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, for me, like I said, I think if I have to compare the two, I just I think it was always something to fight for. It wasn't easy, and maybe that's what you're saying it wasn't easy. There was always someone ahead. I think I was in a special generation. I mean, all the guys in front of us were world champions, olympic medalists, pan Am Games gold medalists. We were, like most of the national team had big wins at that point, and being a young kid in that situation is like to get out of the country was a lot, to win the team trials was a lot because you were beating world champions. You were in there with Pan Am Games medalists. So I would, I would definitely say it's. It was something to keep working towards. I don't know, like I don't, I'm not even sure outside of, like you, but like I'm not even sure in our generation, the young gun that just kind of ran through the table and like stay consistent all the way through.
Speaker 2:I mean, how about? How about this, though you? What's interesting? We talk about nature versus nurture. I mean it's on my mind right now because Wayne Gretzky's all time goalie our goal scoring title is about to get passed by Alex Ovechkin. But it's funny because you think about Wayne Gretzky. You know unbelievable hockey player. You see that kid when he was like four years old and skates he was better than everybody else. You see LeBron James with a basketball when he was in fourth, third grade better than everybody else. Serena Williams without skill better than everybody else. So it's funny when we think about the greats, greats, greats. I would say a higher percentage of them had something a little special early on.
Speaker 2:What I think, though, is a misconception in Taekwondo is I don't believe there's any natural fighters, because in this generation of the world, at least in the Western world, you're taught the exact opposite Don't push, don't hit, don't bump, don't fight. It's always don't, don't, don't, don't. You're telling me now that you put somebody in there and they just understand how to fight, like kids don't get in fights in school anymore. Kids don't get in fights on the playground anymore, I mean, and if they do, it's one we're not proud to say. We grew up fighting five times a week, so you almost had a little. Someone put you in karate. You're like okay, I kind of know what I'm doing. You know I, I was nine years old and they put me in there and I, I punched. I punched a senior belt in the face and I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. I had to do push-ups on the linoleum. But I like I can fight. I don't even really need Taekwondo, I can fight.
Speaker 2:I went on the Olympic team in 1988, and I remember they kicked the crap out of me in drills. I didn't understand steps, I didn't understand anything, but we were on the track one day and we started wrestling. I'm like no fools, you guys want to fight. Right now. None of you little guys can handle me. So I mean, I think that this generation are probably not fighters. They're probably made fighters, are they a little more athletic? Maybe Do they understand IQ of like I'm winning, I should save this, I'm losing, I got to go for it, maybe. But natural fighters, those are boxers, right, they're not taekwondo people.
Speaker 4:I think they got to love it in the beginning. I mean, maybe that special thing is the love for the game early, because you know you get to a spot where you go to a sport where taekwondo is not the biggest obviously not the biggest sport in America, or even on the scale of bigger sports in America, but like, maybe it's that kid that walks in and goes man, for whatever reason I want to be here, you know, for whatever reason I like being here and they kind of take to it a little bit more to other kids who are a little bit more in and out or not, as not as locked in or not as focused on doing that as their sport, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's definitely. I mean there's a lot of good coaches out there. What's that? Go like Coach, coach here. Okay, go ahead, coach. That's true too, thank you, thank you, they have a chest. They have a chest. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:I did. I did the other day I asked my, I asked a group of kids, people. I just cause we were working on punching and I was like there's something primitive about getting punched. It's like when someone slaps you in the face, it's almost like the worst thing that could happen to you, right? And they're like take one of you, kick me. I'm like, okay, you kick me, but if someone punches you, it just it's, it's just like, just like. No, you can't punch me. So anyway, we were talking about that. I go, let me ask you guys, I went through every single one. I go, don't lie to me, you've been punched in the face. Punch your face, punch me. Two people. Two people said they got punched in the face and I'm not even sure that I believe them, but they said they got punched in the face and so I was laughing because I'm like, not that you're proud of it, but like you know, again, growing up you get punched, right, you get in tussles and you do it. But I thought it was funny that out of this whole group, two kids said that they've been punched before. So I was kind of. You know, it was funny to me.
Speaker 2:But I'm thinking about, I never say that I'm great. I think I was above average and I think I had a certain amount of success. I never say that I'm great. I think I was above average and I think I had a certain amount of success. I think, tj, you would probably say the same thing. You know very much surprised. You could say you were great because you achieved the ultimate goal of Olympic gold medal. No, no, I'm going to say this because I don't. No, no, but I'm going to say this because I don't believe, just because you win, that you're great, because we've seen that in football Is Trent Dilfer a great quarterback. He was a Super Bowl winning quarterback. So, anyway, but what I was going to say is it's interesting.
Speaker 4:But what about? Okay, go ahead but what about his combat?
Speaker 2:I was going to say I'll get to that. I was going to say but you know what's interesting is like? I would be willing to believe that all three of us right on this panel, like people, applaud our accolades and they say how great we were, but people don't realize that we weren't probably the greatest, that we had to work extremely hard. And we did work extremely hard. Like you said, tj, you had all those people in front of you. You were climbing the hill all the time.
Speaker 2:Herb, you came in a generation when you weren't supposed to win and, matter of fact, there were some people that didn't want you to win and you just broke down those barriers. I was in between both of you guys. I had people that I wasn't supposed to win and you're not the right style. It's interesting that we all had to work extremely hard, but yet people will say you're such a natural, you're such a natural fighter. I, in my brain, I'm like man, okay, it's not worth the conversation, but they don't realize how much nurture we actually had, whether it was sifu vizio, whether it was master patrice, whether it was joseph selene, whether it was myself. You know me with my mentors, you know, but what did you say about the fighters?
Speaker 4:I had to I'm gonna talk on that. I had to learn to be a fighter, though like, like, if truth be told, from job I had to learn to be a fighter. I wasn't, like I said, those early days of me being a color belt versus all the black belts in the room. I mean, they ran me around the room rugged, like I had nothing for them, to the point where it was something happened and we were fighting and fighting and then there was a switch that changed and I'm like wait a minute, I can do what they can do. I got to go try to do what they can do because I'm tired of getting hit.
Speaker 2:Do you remember when it happened?
Speaker 4:I remember the exact moment when it happened. Really. Yeah, I remember the exact moment when that happened. We were at a gym on an Army-based training on these gym floors type thing. I won't go into detail about the story but yeah, that very day I was basically getting my butt whooped. I was getting basically getting my butt whooped and I took one shot and I kind of looked at the person that I hit and I saw their face change just slightly and I'm like wait, he don't like this just as much as I don't like this. Let me go find out how much you don't like this. And that kind of changed my whole little dynamic. But yeah, I agree with you, I wasn't. I wasn't born going. I'm going to go beat people up. You know what I mean. I knew you had to protect yourself as a kid, but I was never like looking for the fights or like trying to be in the middle of everything, like for me it was more about how about you, herc.
Speaker 1:That's so crazy that you can remember the moment. Yeah, I mean yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:But did you win early? Did you win early? Did you win early, like when you're a color belt? Thank you, yeah. Yeah that was different.
Speaker 2:Like you know, 80s 80s and stuff like that. It was different 80s, 90s. I mean yeah, yeah yeah. Yeah. It's called discipline yeah, but you know, the unspoken code is just was was kind of a, I mean it was kind of an etiquette type thing. It was kind of like you just knew, just like when kids were young, they knew when they were supposed to talk and when parents were talking you were quiet, you didn't interrupt them, you didn't that's how I would you're like old school five tenets of Tequando, those were like the core of everything.
Speaker 4:You function off of those. You function off of those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that's 100% learned because you can, even because if you grow up in the streets, you learn who to talk to, who not to, because you mess up once and you you get in trouble. And the same thing when you're young and your parents give you a spanking or whatever, you learn that that's not no one's innately goes. I shouldn't talk because I might interrupt. No, you learned that. That's not no one's innately goes. I shouldn't talk because I might interrupt. No, you learned that. But that was parenting, that was we. We talked about leadership right now, tj, with some of our top level athletes. You know they shouldn't be taught how to, not how to be their person, because I think we're all unique and we should all be able to express. But there's certain etiquette that you should have. There's certain, you know, decorum that you should have and when people go, yeah, but it's a you know what. You're just living in this la la world right now that you think everyone is entitled. You know I should be able to say whatever I want.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but that's what I think has to be, and always have to remain, special about our sport. Is that right there? Obviously, we want great athletes. Obviously we want Olympic gold medals, obviously, obviously, obviously. But all these things you guys are talking about right now matter more than not. Like, you have to know how to act. You're supposed to know how to act.
Speaker 4:This stuff made me more disciplined in my athletic career so I could continue to try to excel and be in these other rooms and be in these other conversations. All this stuff is that you have to be martial. It's martial arts, martial arts, martial arts.
Speaker 4:In WCAP, they always said something. They said we're a specialized sports unit in the military, but they would always say and I used to always make fun of it, sometimes every now and then but soldiers first, because you had to be who you were if the country needed you to go forth and stand for them. So it's soldiers first and athletes, and I think that goes for us. I know we all want to be a big sport and everything like that, but martial arts first and then you're a sports player, martial artist, and then you chase the rest of it. But it all has to blend together and I think that I'm going to say some of the greater talk about the special people. I think they had that. I think that discipline was there. I think that little bit of focus was there. I don't know, but that's just me. I think that has to remain and be strong always.
Speaker 2:I don't know one athlete no, no, I was going to say I don't know one athlete in our sport or out of our sport that doesn't have the. Again, we can be brash, we can be whatever, but doesn't, at the core, have morals, ethics and values. And then again, well, listen, we're all, you know, we all, we all have our little faults and stuff like that. You know, again, I keep talking about Michael. Michael Jordan liked to smoke cigars and play golf and gamble, right, but at the end of the day, everybody knows he was dedicated to being the best athlete that he could be for his team, for the city that he represented, all those kinds of things, and he's been able to go on and do other things. When I look at the greats, they all have those morals, ethics, values. They all have courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control, abdominal spirit. Not that we're not, again, without an ego or a fault. I mean, maybe I could be arrogant one time, maybe my spirit is down, but generally speaking it's going to be up and I think that all the great athletes have that learned trait, that nurtured trait. No-transcript, you're saying to be honest with you, I, but I think you can do some of those other things and still and still some of the yeah, this, you know the, the team camaraderie, the, you know the discipline and stuff like that. I mean I agree, I mean I, I'm a listen.
Speaker 2:When I first opened peak performance and my, I broke down a lot of stereotypes. I'm like let's be, let's be a sport, let's wear comfortable stuff when we compete. Of course we have to get used to all that stuff. I didn't have any flags. We didn't have a bow in. We bowed to each other but we didn't bow to a flag. We didn't show any allegiance to anything like that. At the end we got together, we did a cheer, I said a couple of words. I made I made a conservative effort to break down some things that I had to do. Just because there was no scientific thing about it, it was just just because why? Because I said, okay, so I broke down, but I've had to come back a little bit because after all this generations of people like you guys that understood this stuff and said you know what, I know how to act, I know how to be respectful, I know how to conduct myself properly in front of people, all of a sudden I had a generation of just sports people.
Speaker 2:Tj, you said we got to keep it. They might as well have been a soccer player, football player, basketball player. Hey, what's up? Sit down in the corner. And I'm like I almost blew a gasket when I kind of figured this all out and I'm like, well, now that's my fault, because the pendulum has swung too far.
Speaker 2:Now we have to wear a certain shirt. Now we have to act. Now you come to my gym. You walked into my gym right now. Every single person would come up to you and shake your hand or give you a dab. I know that's not the most formal greeting, but every single kid will come up and say hello to you. I mean, it was about me going back and teaching this group because you said again too, tj, when you were coming up, you were chasing people. So you learn how to act and learn how to train without people telling you you were nurtured when, when that that line goes away. Now we have what we have in the national team in this country. You look at, you go to the world championships. You got high profile athletes wearing jeans and polos because they don't want to wear team usa stuff. So I mean, I think there's, there's got to be a little.
Speaker 4:How about this? How about how about this for culture? Like so I had to get used to, I had to get used to the athletes around calling the, the ceo, the coaches, the high performer, like may paul steve gareth I was. I was like stupid, shocked. I'm just like there's no way. And like then when I had to like slowly try to figure out how to tell these kids like you don't call me TJ, like there's no way you call me TJ in any situation. There's no conversation where you approach me TJ and I'm cool. You call me coach, tj, you can call me coach.
Speaker 4:You can like wait, tj, whatever you want, but you're not going to talk to me and call me by my first name, and I heard this is normal. We're talking about the CEO and they're going. Oh yeah, I got to go talk to Steve and I'm like who?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's funny because even in listen kids, look I'm not old as you grandma spreads, but I'm going to be 54. Most of the people that walk into my school with their kids, you know their thirties and forties and I'm like hey, mrs, mrs Johnson, hey, mrs, I don't call anybody by their first name, just as a as a respect to a parent and for certainly someone as older than me, I don't say I mean for purposes that we're here right now. I never, I I never call, say what's up. Herb, it's Kyung, it's my older brother. It's just crazy to me that kids, my daughter comes over and I'm like you never call Deanna by Deanna. Her name is Miss Deanna or Miss Suarez. You say Miss before. If Isabella wants to call, no, no, no, it doesn't matter. You 1,000% is Mr or Mrs, that's it, there's no question.
Speaker 2:But that's again being taught when people want to be all again. This is that new. I don't want to use the word woke, but that woke generation of people. There's a certain amount of etiquette. That should be, that should stay. It has to Etiquette. It's just normal etiquette. Thank you, it's not okay. That's not okay. That's not okay. Young, that's not okay.
Speaker 4:No, it's not okay like, why would you even, why would that even be something you say? Like, why would that as an organization, why would you ever say the opposite of? Like our country got olympic gold medals this year, this year. How does it support your story to shut and cut all that down? That's the problem. Like that's so stupid stupid, stupid, thank you that's a weird little stigma too.
Speaker 4:I always felt like that too. If I showed up to a tournament back and you had to bring your own helmets and everybody wanted those red and blue dip adidas helmets you know I'm talking about the shiny ones like I feel like you can't go to that tournament and lose. I know that that equipment was reserved for winners, you know what I mean. Like you had that all. You probably were out there scraping people. If not, you had a white macho like everybody else. So you know it's so funny, a white macho.
Speaker 2:Well listen, I know we've been all over the place, but I mean for me, like I mean, I would just, I mean on this whole thing about the athletes and we should talk about coaching too at some point different levels, but I mean I would say that I'm going to go out there and say that to be great, you have to be gifted, whether it's genetically or you have to be gifted, but you, your, your, your gift has to, has to be nurtured. That's where I'm, that's where I'm going to kind of sum up my thing. Like you, you have, if you're going to be literally groundbreaking cream of the crop, you have to have some God-given body, god-given talent, something that all of us mortals don't have. But in order to get there, you had to be, you had to be nurtured, you had to have discipline and dedication and desire and grit and all the things that we all know make a great athlete. Because if not, you would have been like 98% of the other population. Where you see them in high school. You're like man tall, fast, strong, and they dropped out of college or they quit the team or they're working at some odd job, correct?
Speaker 2:I'll take one more person. You have somebody TJ, I have somebody you, I have somebody you guys go. I'm listening, yeah, I mean I there's. I won't say anybody modern, because I don't want to go there yet, because I don't think I could judge them until they finish. But like I got two, two and you know both of them were very gifted in my era. I think one was clay barber and one was chun li. Both of them were really gifted in my era. I think One was Clay Barber and one was Tian Li. Now both of them won international medals, but I still don't believe, based on what I saw, the physicality, what they could do speed, power, explosion, dynamic. I know people talk about people nowadays, but these guys were. They're the reason I left Chicago and went to the Olympic Trainer Center, those two people, because I'm like they're so good, they're so strong.
Speaker 2:But something was off and I'm going to say it was partly their fault but partly the nurturing part. I don't think they had the right mentors for them that could have gotten more out of them. Clay Barber was a silver medal at the World Championships once, but there was another five, six, seven years that he probably, in my opinion, could have did more. I mean, he's a good friend of mine. We talk on the phone often. I have the utmost respect for him. He has a great career now. I personally think that he could have been more. I fought at the Olympic trials finals, but he was a teammate of mine before. I mean he was incredibly talented. I mean the guy could do everything, but I think he didn't have the right mentor. He butted heads with them Again. I can blame a little bit of both, but I don't think they got the most out of their God-given ability and they worked hard, but there was something missing and I think it was the nurturing part from the coaches. That's just my point.
Speaker 4:I'm going to final thought. I think it's a lot of nurture. I mean, when we start thinking back and thinking about all the stories we told, it's a lot of nurture. I think the coaches either the athlete was special or the coach was special, or both are special somehow. But I think the nurture from the coaches and the guidance you get early kind of dictates the trajectory you go on. And I think that's in every sport and I know we try to give credit as much credit as we can to the athletes, because it's them out there that are sweating, kicking, grinding. But also for me and I think about my career was a lot of nurture and, like I said from again, I don't think I've had a bad coach the entire time I've done this sport, so it's got to be a lot of that for me.
Speaker 2:So nurture it is. Yeah, that's a good one. Look at Mr T. He wasn't nurtured properly. He should have been great. He should have been great, he should have been great he was, the man alright Peace, peace.
Speaker 3:Oh man, you messed up. Now I gotta stop. Would you cut up my thing, man? What are you doing?