Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
When Your Sport Excludes Its Champions: A Candid Taekwondo Discussion
Navigating the complex terrain of taekwondo politics requires more than just technical skill—it demands resilience against systems that sometimes work against their own athletes. In this revealing conversation, Coach Lee joins the Warehouse 15 podcast to share his perspective as both an Olympic coach and someone who's experienced the double standards prevalent in USA Taekwondo.
The episode uncovers the controversial selection process for the upcoming Grand Prix Challenge in North Carolina, originally designed for athletes ranked outside the top 70 but now opened to everyone—yet mysteriously capped at just 50 participants. This limitation has forced countries to implement their own selection criteria, resulting in questionable decisions that appear to favor certain athletes through carefully timed qualification periods and subjective standards.
Most troubling is how these politics trickle down to affect junior athletes. Coach Jennings shares a heartbreaking story of a parent who declined his coaching assistance for fear that association might harm their child's standing with USA Taekwondo—evidence of a culture where technical expertise takes a backseat to political alignments. Meanwhile, certain officials face no consequences for behavior that would result in severe punishment for others.
The hosts compare American taekwondo's struggles with Europe's thriving programs, highlighting how geographical and funding challenges in the Pan American region have contributed to declining participation while European camps continue to grow. Yet despite these obstacles, success stories emerge from alternative development pathways like the TOPS program, which has produced athletes now qualifying for national teams and international competitions.
What shines through this candid discussion is the unwavering passion these coaches maintain despite the challenges. As they put it: "We're still here, we're still giving, we're still mentoring." Their commitment to developing athletes and improving the sport transcends the politics that threaten to overshadow what makes taekwondo great—the opportunity to cultivate excellence regardless of who you know or which political lines you toe.
Welcome back to the Warehouse 15 and after after much consternation, delay and time, we finally have our next guest who couldn't figure out how to work.
Speaker 4:The first Asian in the world that couldn't figure out technology Unbelievable. I think he's got a Commodore 64. Whoa, whoa, whoa, he'll have a Commodore 64.
Speaker 3:We wanted to bring some diversity to the program, so we have decided to include an Asian. We're not sure what flavor Asian he is, but I think are you Korean.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, we all same same, same, same, Same same.
Speaker 3:That's pretty good sir. We'll be doing Korean today. I've been working on my native language. But welcome to the Warehouse 15. And as always, grandmaster, disaster here, and as we said before, you have to raise your right hand the right hand, the other right hand, all right. And you have to repeat the following words I promise not to get offended. Right hand, all right. And you have to repeat the following words I promise not to get offended, but if I am offended I will.
Speaker 2:Willing to accept the apology of sorry. Not sorry, I will sue, all right stand in line stand in line. Hey, that's the way the world is right.
Speaker 3:I understand there's a former olympic coach that would love to do that too, but we'll talk about him later. How are you doing today, sir?
Speaker 2:Hey doing great. It's great to be here with you guys. I felt a little bit, you know, underwhelmed with all you Olympian medals. Oh, nice, Nice.
Speaker 3:You know, I got a gold medalist, I got a silver medalist.
Speaker 2:I got a bronze medalist. Nice, I got the Canadian Coach of the Year and one of the greatest coaches and mayor of freaking Westside USA. I had to bring my belt.
Speaker 3:I like your belt. How do I compete with?
Speaker 4:you guys, man, hey, pull out the swag chain. Pull out the swag chain. Oh happy I gave that away.
Speaker 3:I had to bring the belt, so now I feel a little bit more comfortable with you guys. Well, we're honored to have you on here. That puts you one rung above TJ on the list.
Speaker 2:Cause the belt is gold. So put that on your back and your back screen. For the next one. I got it.
Speaker 3:We're going to have to put it up. Well welcome. I'll let a coach Moreno do the bona fides on you, mr Moreno Coach.
Speaker 4:Coach Lee. Everyone knows he's been a very successful guy, but thank you for coming on the podcast. You're our second guest. Obviously, we had Mr John Wilson on last week and we wanted to have you, so we're super to have you. As you guys know, coach Lee is one of my best friends. We've known each other for a long time. We've been through the good, the bad and the ugly and I give him a lot of credit for my expansion of peak performance. He actually came up with the original idea. A lot of people don't know that Every time I talk in private, bring a podcast. I always give you a lot of credit. So thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4:Before we kind of pass around, we always do a quick little shout out. I got my shout out. I got two shout outs, one just because I think it's a great thing. I want to shout out to Alex Colbert in Michigan. He's having a state championships today I'm sorry Saturday and he's got 700 people. This guy's been his father's a grandmaster, he's kind of grown up in martial arts and man, he's got a 700 person event in Michigan. I saw shout out to Alex Gormer doing big things and I told you last time I missed I got my swag from.
Speaker 4:Oh, can you see it From Top?
Speaker 3:TKD. Oh nice.
Speaker 4:I got my Top TKD shoes. What?
Speaker 3:Those look nice. Those look nice.
Speaker 4:Look, I got two pairs, because I am a man that's confident in myself. I even got the bow.
Speaker 3:Oh nice.
Speaker 4:What do I got to do?
Speaker 1:to get a pair of Taekwondo shoes. You told me you know a guy.
Speaker 4:Can I get a pair Top TKD? Can I get a pair? I wear Ta you Top TKD. Hey, where's the?
Speaker 1:company. Can I get a pair? I would take one of those shoes too. Listen, listen, hey man.
Speaker 4:Top TKD representing. They hooked me up, so thank you to you guys.
Speaker 3:I'm going to wear them Size 10 and a half 10 and a half If they want them on the foot gold medalist like 10 and a half, Just saying.
Speaker 2:Let me bring my belt back out now.
Speaker 3:Those are almost as nice as my White Castle shoes that Anthony Graff gave me. So Anthony Graff gave me a nice pair of White Castle.
Speaker 2:No no Top.
Speaker 4:White Castle Top, tkd from California. No, seriously, I bought some shoes. I wanted to try them out and I had a little problem with my sizing and they just hooked me up right away. Thanks to you guys, I know they're growing their business, so hopefully we can get you guys some shoes as well. Master Jennings, I will take care of you. Namaste, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I wear check on those shoes, coach Lee.
Speaker 2:I don't got a shout out, but I'd like to welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 1:Flow flow.
Speaker 1:Try to get a welcome. You cut me off my shout out Welcome to the podcast. I'm super excited for you to be here. You know, like he's got a coach I don't said his little piece of it, but I know you've been around me since I can't even remember when it always been an influential part of like keeping me motivated and keeping me, you know, in the direction I needed to go for the olympic games and to qualify, and you know they're with me. So I always appreciate you. You know that. So I'm super excited to have you here so we could talk a little bit.
Speaker 3:But why, why, why did he never help me? What, what? How can we help you two guys who never helped me? And then now I've been demoted like he's the best friend?
Speaker 2:of you, sir what about me? You're like, like I said, the grandmaster of the masters. So, you're like our mentor and senior and role model. We looked up to you.
Speaker 3:I had the good fortune to watch all of you compete and do amazing things and just be so happy for your continued success. And Coach Moreno does always talk about you and all the things that you've done for him and with him and all the great things that you guys continue to do, and so I think we're fortunate. One of the beauties of our sport that we've been given is that we get to meet people that are of like mind, like bodies, and like to do things the same way. So people that come on this podcast are people that have done it the way we think it should be done, and so I'm really glad to have you. I know there's a lot you want to say, despite the birdcage hat on on in honor of Gene Hackman that Mr Moreno is wearing.
Speaker 4:So may Gene Hackman oh, hey man, oh hey, oh hey.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, It's's not hating, I'm not judging, I'm just saying a little bird cage. But well, you know, if you get that reference, you're, you're old enough. All right, let's get started. What do we got today, gentlemen?
Speaker 4:no, I think we honestly, I think we're gonna keep it a little bit open. I mean, let's get, let's talk a little bit about you first, coach, and then, uh, actually today I would like to talk about the Grand Prix Challenge that's going to be coming up in North Carolina, just because it's a little bit of a hot topic. Actually, my phone has been buzzing all morning since I posted something in a chat, so we'll get to that. But, coach, tell us what's going on with you. I know you have obviously a big program going on in Minnesota. You have athletes that you coach both in Haiti and in Gambia. What are you guys doing? What's good?
Speaker 2:Right now we're just preparing for Mexico. Here in the beginning of April we have the Junior Pan Ams and the U-22s, and also got a couple of students going there just to compete in the Open. But after that, at the end of April, we'll just be going to Ethiopia for the African President's Cup. Oh then, that's. That's about it until the June Grand Prix Challenge.
Speaker 1:First time in Ethiopia. What was that First time in Ethiopia? Yes, oh cool.
Speaker 4:Let me ask you something, coach Lee. You've been to two Olympic Games. Now you coach Haiti the first time and you coach Gambia, your own personal athlete. You coach your daughter at one, then you coached your personal athlete from someone that you kind of brought in from.
Speaker 3:I just want everybody to know where Gambia is.
Speaker 2:I was like what the heck?
Speaker 3:Just so we can know where Gambia is situated. It is between Senegal and Guinea.
Speaker 4:Thank you for the the geography lesson there.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that would be in west africa. Some of my favorite food comes from west africa. I have not been to gambia, though. All right, I'll stop the share.
Speaker 4:I apologize, but they're going to ethiopia, not gambia, anyway but uh how was, how was that experience for you? They were two different. You had a covid olympics and then you had the Paris. Olympics.
Speaker 2:I mean again, it's always an honor to be there. It was an amazing experience, like always. We always have a good time, because it helps when all my friends are there. You guys are there so to help me, guide me, and if I need to have any questions or help, you guys are always there for me.
Speaker 3:But just in case you didn't know where ethiopia was, what the heck is going on.
Speaker 2:That's ethiopia, all right, I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm in school now you gotta, we gotta teach, we gotta teach too.
Speaker 1:I guess let's go, but uh again, it's uh.
Speaker 2:You guys have been there and you guys have uh led the way and really helped guide me to reach that level. But the experience is always amazing. I'm very grateful for everything.
Speaker 1:Nice nice.
Speaker 4:What do you think about right now? With like Tickwanda in the Pan Am region? You went to US Open and Canada Went to US.
Speaker 2:Open went to Canada. Prior to that we went to. We were in Serbia for training camp to prepare for that. But it's a tough thing I think for us, I think we're essentially a huge disadvantage for the Pan Am regions because of the size of it, how much we have to travel, how far we have to travel, the expense of it, and I mean I could be wrong, but I think our numbers are, especially in Canada and the US, have dropped dramatically because of a lot of reasons, but for the points and things like that, it just doesn't help us one bit when, again, we've always talked about it where the Europeans got such a huge advantage over us.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I think it's a problem that I think needs to be fixed.
Speaker 4:What do you think? Because it's interesting, the Patu has a lot of G1 tournaments so we can get the points now, but because we're so big, we're not getting the quality, like you saw, and I points now, but because we're so big, we're not getting the quality, like you saw and I know you were going to spain for a camp doing a year uh, serbia for camps.
Speaker 2:Like what did you see at those camps? Uh, just the, the numbers I mean they have. So if you guys are I'm sure you guys are seeing on social media the camps that they're hosting are just massive because the sport is growing so fast out there and again, you know, in our, in our region, south America, they just we don't have the funding as well to travel and do these things. So I think it's just a huge problem in my opinion.
Speaker 4:Well, we have a business component to it too as well, because, if you think about it, most camps here, generally speaking, are business orientated and you don't have a lot of funding, so you got to pay for everything, whereas if you go to Europe, you know they give these stadiums and locations where these people can just a housing. You know where people could stay if they need to. So you know the cost for a person might be I'm just using a number you know 500 bucks. You to to to pay for the event and stay and eat, versus us it's, you know, 500 bucks to get on a plane, you know. And then the entry fee and hotels and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:I mean look at us, for for canada, just for we're just under canada it cost me what? 800 bucks just to fly there, yeah, for a two, two and a half hour flight. I mean, in can't, in europe you can, you can fly to another country for 75 bucks, yeah, and then I've done that. You know travel hack all the time you always compliment me on that. You know we'll fly to one country for dirt cheap and we'll get another ticket there for and yeah. So, yeah, I think it's. It's a issue that needs to be discussed and hopefully they can come up with a better solution.
Speaker 4:But you know who knows in our sport so let's talk about the uh um, let's talk a little bit about the pen, uh, the uh grand prix challenge. You want to kind of explain that a little bit tj yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, the challenges. I mean, I know most of people are watching, though, but the grand prix challenge started as a outside of 70 tournaments, so you had to be 70 or higher to even qualify for the competition, which I thought was cool. It kind of offered you that mix of like a young guy getting into the grand prix system and see what they can do. I think it was more for, like the, the bigger countries that can produce more people the korean country, china's all those guys that can produce athletes a little bit faster countries that can produce more people the Korean country, china, there's all those guys that can produce athletes a little bit faster than we can produce athletes. But anyways, and now we have it coming to North Carolina, here in Charlotte, and it's been changed from outside of 70 to open to everybody.
Speaker 1:Basically, which, right there in that beginning, I don't like, because I mean, I don't like it simply because then we fast forward to them capping it at 50. So we're going to cap the competition at 50 and then they're going to allow four to five, four or five max per division, per person in each division, and I'm not quite sure what that means, but I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit, but I was super excited about this event. I got my guys all around. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to get my young guns in there, they're going to get it shot. Hopefully we get some big matches, some good exchanges. Then the rest of the rules come out, where it's capped at 50. Now these countries are coming up with selection procedures and how they're going to get in and who they're going to send, and all this stuff. I think within that has become a lot of flawed systems. I guess, coach, you can start, can I?
Speaker 2:ask you a question. Yes, sir, is it? Can I ask you a question? Yes, sir, so how are they determining, or how is it going to be transparent on like, who are the first 50 registered, or how does that?
Speaker 1:So my issue is so my thing is I know WT said it to be as first come, first serve, and I was talking a little bit earlier like technically in my brain. I know it's not the right answer, probably not the right answer because, who knows, but then it would be a whole bunch of other stuff, but then it should be almost first come, first serve every single place, because that's what it's supposed to be. And now each country has made their selections on how they're going to put people into this process of first come, first serve. And I don't know, I think it's just gotten super jumbled up. But there is no way to know. We just have to hope that you know they got our email first or they got the. You know the email first and they opened it first and they accepted it first and all that good stuff.
Speaker 4:So who knows, you know I'm writing right now because, uh, you know the the coaching um chair for wt. His name is uh coach robert. He's from uh ireland, super, super nice guy, and he just got some information for the wt and and what I'm writing right now, imagine that USA, brazil, canada, mexico, serbia, turkey, spain, france, egypt, they all apply with five. So you're telling me, korea, iran, china, russia, uzbekistan, ukraine, all those countries are just going to be oh sorry, you're too late. First come, first serve basis. That's where we're at like how do we?
Speaker 1:know, I mean, I think differences you know, yeah, I think it's the biggest part. I forget who said, I think um master park said it actually, like the whole, these are extra 20 points out there, right, yeah, like these are extra 20 points. So I didn't, I wasn't even looking at it from that standpoint for my guys. I was looking at it from, like you know, getting to these big events, you know, take a shot at it. But for it to be an extra 20 points, capping it at 50, it being open invitation and first come, first serve, it just gets a little strange, because now those points become important for a lot of people, you know. So it's going to be interesting, I guess yeah, it's going to be.
Speaker 4:I listen, I think it's going to be controversial. I, I listen, I don't think the wt, you know, kind of figured, you know, thought about this, unfortunately. But, um, this is a big problem. If you're the host country, like the united states, are you preparing for 50 people or 500 people? You know, I mean, it's it's a big problem. And I don't think they saw this. But when they said it's open because it's going to qualify you for the next grand prix, that's where the problem was, you know, or, or they should have said it's open, it could any ranking, but the country has to pick two people. You know what I'm saying? Every country gets two, and if every country in the world sent it, well, that's what you got. Or if only 20 countries, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's just that fact that it gets you into the Grand Prix. That's the thing Gets you into the Grand Prix. So who and what country and anywhere in the world does not want to be there? You know what I mean? This is the first one of these things we've gotten over here in this side of the world. And who does not want to be there? Of course, yeah, as any organization, they want to send a guy there, they want to send two guys there, we want to send four guys there, because the extra shot at those important events for next year and like I don't know, I think, like you said, it got a little jumbled up, a little twisted up.
Speaker 4:Well, I mean it's funny because I had a meeting with my Olympic contact in Brazil and I was explaining this new two-year cycle. I said you have to give us a little bit of a break because this is brand new. I mean, we've had a couple cycles at four years, four years, four years. So we knew how to plan, we knew how the points went down, but now this uh with I'm just looking makes one round, makes a good point on this wt chat. Um, now, with this two-year cycle and this, you know, qualifying and not qualified, and resetting of the points, this is difficult.
Speaker 4:This, this thing with only five people just came out last week. I'll give all the organizations, usa included, like a little bit of a break, because now people had to put criteria Like what five are we going to choose? And USA came up with our, you know, a process. We actually came up with a very different process in Brazil, but now everyone's, you know, maybe some countries they can do whatever they want. No, you, you, you. But in most democratic countries there has to be some kind of criteria, some kind of protocol, and I think this is a big problem. It's a big unforeseen problem by us and it's the fault of the WT and under the great leadership of go ahead, grandmaster, I have a lead for you, Grandmaster.
Speaker 2:Don't tell me you've just started. Don't tell me you're just out of you.
Speaker 1:Don't tell me you're just out of you.
Speaker 4:You go on man.
Speaker 3:Soon to be departed. I hope the clown show hey what happened to your shoulder. My shoulder. I was attacked by ninjas from both Kukiwon, usa and the Kukiwan. They sent out their best and brightest and, luckily for me, I actually still do real taekwondo, so I didn't injure my shoulder in the altercation. I injured my shoulder from clapping myself on the back for hitting people and showing them what real taekwondo still look like. Um, so it's uh, it's time you know, don't tell me.
Speaker 2:Don't tell me, sir, you're still doing like one steps you know, I don't, I've never.
Speaker 3:I I learned one steps in three steps. I don't do that. I we were just talking about it but I'm talking about. I'm not talking about when you know, taekwondo first came here and it came from karate and they were doing one step and three.
Speaker 4:Stop copying the show to come I'm talking about on saturday, and we got some one steps.
Speaker 3:Y'all need to slow your roll you better do that one step where they do it in the club to the music and they're doing you know, I'm not going to mention the name.
Speaker 4:We have a really good friend that's supposedly a hopkido master and he grabs me, like this, and then he says no, no, not like this, like this you can't grab me like that.
Speaker 3:You gotta grab me over here use your right arm on your left arm.
Speaker 4:Yeah, not that way he's pretty badass when he gets his. You know his hand where he needs it to be, but before that, I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't want to out the Koreans, but let's be clear. Taekwondo came from karate, Hapkido is akido just with an H, and judo is judo just with a Y, so let's call them as we see them and kumdo. I have no idea what that is, but it sounds kind of.
Speaker 4:So basically, what you're saying is.
Speaker 2:I think we we're gonna have to get one of those diamond books. Then I'm gonna get one.
Speaker 3:Wear that with my belt the beauty of taekwondo is that it was, it is, continues to be, despite the olympic efforts to make it something else. It's still considered just to be the most dynamic kicking sport in the history of mankind. All you have to do is go back and watch some tapes of people actually doing it at a high level the greats of the world, including some of the people on this Zoom call. So I will still wait for the day for it to circle back when we're done with the footfall.
Speaker 1:I don't think you're coming back.
Speaker 4:No, I ain't coming back.
Speaker 1:I think it's circling a little bit. I think it's moreling a little bit. I think it's more back, more action.
Speaker 2:The game's changed a little yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that was. I think it's going back A little bit, even starting with just the Koreans, all their lower waist.
Speaker 2:I don't get that I thought you were Chinese.
Speaker 3:They told me you were Chinese. I had no idea.
Speaker 2:I don't get that I thought you were Chinese.
Speaker 3:They told me you were Chinese Whoa, whoa, whoa. I had no idea, First of all he said they're all the same same.
Speaker 1:At the beginning.
Speaker 2:Don't forget, he said they're all the same same, you the same same too. Let's be clear.
Speaker 3:Kim Chi came from China, china came from China.
Speaker 2:Just so you know, I'm telling you History. Geography by Professor Perez. Everything's from China. First of all, I want to say this is a very diverse group.
Speaker 1:It has some Chinese in me, though. When I took my little DNA test, it was like 0.06%. I'm Chinese too.
Speaker 4:When I was a little kid, my, uh, my. They used to ask my brother if I was adopted, because they thought I was chinese, because I always have these like little beady eyes, like okay, hey, no, is that why?
Speaker 2:that's why I'm on the show today. I was like, hey, listen, no. But anyways, going back to the story, hey, tell me, tell me.
Speaker 4:People used to say that I was racist, that I didn't like korean, that I didn't want any koreans. I'm like, my best friend is freaking korean, look at this guy the best korean accent I've ever heard. Oh yeah, he's the best.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, oh boy, oh boy, hold on is kimchi, chinese, with Hold on a second.
Speaker 3:It's a traditional fermented dish and it's a staple in Korean cuisine not Chinese or Japanese and it's recognized as an intangible cultural heritage.
Speaker 2:Oh, professor, jerez is wrong.
Speaker 3:So Korean cuisine, kimchi. But let's be clear, the Chinese have a version and the chinese have a version and the japanese have a version, so you know. But this is uh. Oh, this is from the korean website. Oh, I see, that's why it says that. All right, I got it.
Speaker 2:I stand correct since we're on the subject of kimchi, korean language yeah, I think uh coach jennings, they were for something on uh mr lew Lewis's website about the official language.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Were they totally off topic, or was I lost there a little bit?
Speaker 1:No, they were all up. You gotta look at who posted what?
Speaker 3:What's the official language? What are we talking about?
Speaker 1:They said that Spanish wasn't good enough.
Speaker 2:So they made English I'm just kidding, but English the official language for WT, which to me made total sense because they're just trying to standardize it for everyone. Yeah, and the people that are commenting were I think they were, they were, but, like again, you got to look at who was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to look at who was posting and who was saying what. Like they were like far off in the left field somewhere they're. They're playing a whole nother game they were talking about. You know, taekwondo started in Korea. How funny is that? That it's, and it's like what are you talking about? Like we're using. Korean language inside of Dojang.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. One guy took a test in korean and he was like the authority on you know korean language in 12 states or something, I don't know. But like it was, it was it kind of got way off topic, though, but then one one, I think one person, said it should be the official language should be chinese.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure is yeah, it was the um. What was what count? Is that the hall of fame, check window hall of fame, or something like that, mr Robbins?
Speaker 3:It was the one fat dong. That was the guy that made that comment and he wanted it to be official.
Speaker 4:It was Mr Robbins, Mr Gerald Robbins.
Speaker 3:He said it should be Chinese. He was saying that Chinese is the most spoken in the world I don't think he really meant it. I think it should be Esperanto. Esperanto, let's go with the future. That's funny.
Speaker 1:And then he questioned my upbringing and my tact on how to deliver information. So that was interesting. It's just goofy. It was like we were talking one language and they were talking one language. We were talking Taekwondo and they were talking something else.
Speaker 2:It was crazy.
Speaker 4:Good stuff. What do you think about the? Have you have you seen? Uh, you probably have seen it, I don't know if you've seen it. Have you made that character talk about it or not? Talk about it? Uh, coach lee, but the the list for the? Uh, the grand prix from the united states whenever, whenever that gets. Uh, yeah, I saw some of it. I saw some of it.
Speaker 2:You kind of feel bad for some of the athletes because of the again for the procedures that they had to come up with. And yeah, I mean it puts I think it puts them in a tough spot and unfortunately some of the top athletes can't compete there, which a few, a few, a few yeah, not me, not too many, but still you still have some of your top players that can't go and compete. That's, that's kind of a shame and yeah, I don't I'm just looking at who does it exclude.
Speaker 2:Who does it? That's Sophia O'Gara. Yeah, she's awesome.
Speaker 4:What they did, they had a criteria for like national team I don't remember a national team and then above and below, and then we're Olympic ranking and then USA ranking and it looks like they only picked four. So I'm reading you know, is it four or five? So if there's five, why did they pick five? 49? I think there's. I think it's going to be end up getting four. So one girl, for example, in the United States she's, she's actually a talented athlete and she lost at team trials this year, but she had went to a division because the USA Tech went over and was looking at their Olympic weight categories which is not a bad idea, instead of her fighting her natural weight, her abandoned weight, and so anyway, long story short, she kind of got excluded from this list. Are we talking about 67? No, I'm talking about 49. Sophia.
Speaker 1:Sophia, yeah, 67 too. Maybe she didn't apply, but I'm surprised when I see Chloe Chua on there in 62 or 67.
Speaker 4:That is weird, her brother is. I didn't see Montana either, montana Miller, that's true too Like. I said I don't see Montana either, Montana Miller.
Speaker 1:That's true too. I didn't see her.
Speaker 2:So, like I said, I don't know if they applied or not, but it's kind of, you know, it's sad that these guys who are committed been around. They're great athletes and they just can't be there.
Speaker 1:And I didn't see it the first time too, but someone told me on the selection somewhere they set it to all points collected through March 10th, right, so it allows the Dutch Open points to go into that selection process. My question is how many other Americans were at the Dutch Open other than like the academy athletes? Did we have a big showing there?
Speaker 2:I think Donica was there.
Speaker 1:Donica, yeah, yeah, okay there, um, but my point is we set it to that date. Why? Because they were going to the dutch open and they wanted the points included in the selection for them well, good point.
Speaker 2:I'm just asking, that's just. What do you think I mean? What do you think I mean?
Speaker 1:I mean why I think, and again, don't again I'm gonna double check, but I'm pretty sure it's in march 10th and it's just like again why we're making rules and selection procedures and doing things that benefit them, like I'm not. I'm gonna say not that many other us athletes went to the dutch open, no, I'm gonna say that I didn't look at the overall, but I'm gonna say I think there's like why you know the reason why. I mean of course, the reason why, but that just doesn't make it right. Like why, like, why that date, why that day, you gotta, you gotta do better than that, why halfway through a month, you know what I mean? I mean like it's all for that's an issue, but anyway, sorry, but yeah, I did see the list there's a lot of issues yeah, there's a few people missing on the list.
Speaker 1:That's unfortunate, but but there's also a few people on the list.
Speaker 4:That that like really surprised me. Like there was a, a gentleman that, um, actually he's from northern california, he's a good little fighter, but well, he's a good fighter but he fought 58 at the team trials. He lost his first match and now he's into the 68. I know he normally weighs the 63 kilos but like you, but you fought 58 and you didn't make it. And now they you're up in the 68, like I.
Speaker 1:I don't know where his points were. That's a good question. I think it's 63, though he always fights 63, so I know I know that's kind of like a thing. Yeah, that's a possibility too. I think so, but like.
Speaker 4:I don't like the chance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like him, I like him a lot, but um, I I wouldn't say like even going off the ranking right now didn't make much sense. You know what I mean. I'm gonna say, if we were ever gonna use our internal ranking system, maybe that would have been more important than this other thing. When you just include the US Open and the US Open and the team trials or the nationals or figure something out, I don't know. But as far as using a ranking, I'm going to say it didn't make much sense.
Speaker 4:I'm not going to divulge our system, but we didn't. We, we used the Olympic ranking, but it was. It was further down. It was further down, and even our national team was further down, because, I mean, it so happens, our national team is what we wanted to be this time. But again we have some people that you know because they've been fighting already, opens and stuff like that. All of a sudden they're ranked pretty high. I mean, they're ranked 10 in the world. They're really not number 10 in the world, they're just 10 in the world, because people are just starting.
Speaker 4:You know, so, Just so we can make it clear no.
Speaker 3:Based on the kicking motions and incorporating elements of Akito.
Speaker 1:Just keep it in real life. Can you play the pronunciation for me, sir Can?
Speaker 2:I hear the pronunciation. Can we get a picture of Steven Seagal Akito Akito pronunciation from you, sir.
Speaker 3:Can I hear?
Speaker 4:the pronunciation can we get?
Speaker 3:a picture of uh steven seagal that's very, uh very anglicized gentle
Speaker 2:gentle, hey one thing to say, but from from the last episode, you, you guys. That was great with Mr Lewis. I don't know who cut him off, but someone asked the questions because you got to bring him back on.
Speaker 3:You got to bring him back on, because I want to hear about the three gold mines.
Speaker 2:He's like someone said, hey, tell us about the three gold mines. I was like I don't know who stopped it. I was like, dang, I want to forget this karate stuff.
Speaker 4:Let's talk about gold mines here, man yeah, because I asked him, because I want to know, I mean, I know, I want to know, but I want to know like was it like millions of dollars or was it because homeboy sitting around?
Speaker 2:and up in the mouth. Now retire, I'm sure you did okay and that's what I want to learn Like. Okay, next time we all go to Colorado, we'll meet up, we'll get our bucket, we'll go to the river Grandma's friends You're going to be. We'll put the rocks in the bucket, you go, carry it up to the I don't know that little.
Speaker 1:And we can take the money that we make and we can fund the team.
Speaker 3:Here he is Fund a team.
Speaker 1:See, that's what I like about you. You still think about the athletes. We go get all these gold rocks and we go fund a team right afterwards.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm down, that's living right. What else are you going to do? Yeah, exactly, exactly. Have fun, exactly have fun. Travel, be with your boys, win some medals.
Speaker 1:I win some medals, win a lot of medals.
Speaker 4:You guys are fake man. You know it. We already talked about this. You know what you're going to do if you got a billion dollars. You know what you're going to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm building a tech window compound.
Speaker 2:I'd make a podcast studio for you guys.
Speaker 4:We could just build a little fortress Airplane Get off, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Other airplane Okay. I would buy all of his tickets so we could be on that plane, okay.
Speaker 4:There we go.
Speaker 2:I don't know if Grandmaster Perez knows what you're talking about.
Speaker 4:He knows He'd get on a plane too. Slap a few people.
Speaker 3:You had all the money in the world.
Speaker 4:You wouldn't get on a plane and just slap a few people.
Speaker 3:I am on a slap fester. I'm sorry, but before we go any further on that, I want to replay a great fight.
Speaker 1:Is that that?
Speaker 3:pro TKD. This is the pro TKD.
Speaker 1:Coach Lee fought in there. This is who it is, you should have watched that match today.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, you should have watched it. Is that Michael Tang? Are you fighting Michael Tang?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that I am, that I am.
Speaker 3:Gosh Good times. And this Good times, this was in later years, much later. I had no idea.
Speaker 1:Oh, mike, did you see that you did a kickboxing match too? Right, I did some.
Speaker 2:MMA and I did some jiu-jitsu tournaments and actually I did an MMA match with Coach Marino.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:In Iowa Not against me, but we were on the same time.
Speaker 1:That's cool.
Speaker 3:But didn't you?
Speaker 2:hurt yourself. I tore my ACL.
Speaker 3:I thought you did yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, where was it? Small town Iowa? Yeah man, it was awesome, it was cool, but how old were you? Was that 37?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if I'm going to do it, I got to do it right now. Huh Damn.
Speaker 2:You're thinking about going MMA or boxing.
Speaker 1:I like boxing, though, I really do. I like boxing. You're too slow, you're too slow, crazy.
Speaker 2:How about that cuban guy rebellious? Don't even, don't even, don't even who?
Speaker 1:oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah dude he's had what?
Speaker 2:four matches total and nobody 20 seconds. Yeah, he's a big boy, though what do you think? But four, what is it? Four matches total under 20 seconds.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say any of those guys had a chance to stand up and deal with his size and his strength, or had some real background to them, or is it just you know?
Speaker 4:building them. But the problem is you can't take them to the ground. You get like a couple seconds on the ground. You got to stand up, so he's always going to be back in it.
Speaker 2:Right, always going to be back in it, but the power he must have. Pretty crazy.
Speaker 3:It's fun to watch. Well, I'm looking at your record in the MMA and you won Nate Kleinsfeld.
Speaker 2:That was the second one. That was my second one.
Speaker 3:That was a good one. That was a spin hook kick into the punch right. Yeah, how come I?
Speaker 4:I tell people all the time he comes out he does a spin, hook kick and hits the guy in the top of the head. The guy falls over there and he runs four steps One, two, three and the guy's like, and he goes. It looked like a missile running here and he just punched and the guy was out. Spin, hook, kick, right done. I'm like damn.
Speaker 1:That was good. I'm waiting for you.
Speaker 3:Coach Kenning.
Speaker 4:I got to find a fight.
Speaker 1:Somebody find me a fight, I'll fight somebody.
Speaker 2:I wish I could find some of Grandmaster Perez's. Not like sport fighting, but some of the fights he had in the streets they were. I got one in my brain I'm surprised. I'm surprised you're out. That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 3:All I'm going to say is the good news is my record in non arenas is better than my record in arenas, so I I can suffice it to say that most of my unfortunate encounters resulted in my right hand um leaving somebody unconscious and and kicking too thunder and lightning.
Speaker 2:I don't know I, I like I liked using taekwondo man.
Speaker 3:I use like back hook kicks and axe kicks and I was ridiculous at that I and I um, I don't, I don't condone violence, but I understand it and Coach Moreno and I have been in. We've been in our share of fracases in various countries and, unfortunately, because they would look at guys like us and underestimate the capacity for disaster, um damage, and so we would have to help them understand through um visual learning and tactile interplay with the mistakes of their ways, including um one unfortunate um incident in korea, where we we spent some time in the Huskow.
Speaker 4:I got a little funny moment of that one. I'm not going to talk about the details because I don't think we should.
Speaker 3:I don't mind talking about it.
Speaker 4:No, no, no. But there's a funny part right In the middle of this fracas, there's hundreds of people, Everyone says thousands, but when you got a hundred people aroundacas, there's I mean, hundreds of people. Like everyone says thousands, but when you got a hundred people around you, it's crazy. So anyway, after all this stuff breaks down. These guys are grabbing him and we're trying to pull people away and he yells to me what, what? My pants, my shorts, my shorts? And I'm like, if you know, Master Perez, he doesn't wear underwear, and they were pulling him.
Speaker 2:So his pants were coming down Free Willie.
Speaker 3:I remember that in.
Speaker 2:China. We were in China together. I remember that.
Speaker 4:He's like I'm underneath all these people trying to hold up his pants, so his Willie don't come out.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'd want to share that story.
Speaker 4:Oh no, it's funny.
Speaker 2:It was funny everyone, I don't know I don't know if I'd want to share that story it was it had denigrated into the individual involved in the fracas.
Speaker 3:Who started the whole thing was a uh, college student who didn't like the fact that we were downtown and they were. We were told not to go downtown. We went downtown anyway, and so this guy came across and started a thing, and then he, unfortunately, was on the worst end of it. We gave him an opportunity not to participate, but he chose the latter and ended up on the floor, at which point, when it turned into a mass melee in Myeongdong and everybody in the world, they decided it would be time to disrobe me. So they took off my shirt and it was summer, and that left only my shorts, of which we had very colorful shorts that we had got sponsored by Puma of all places, and I was like boys. If they pull off my shirts, it will not be a pretty thing. It will not be.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I digress, but anyway we survived, but uh, anyway we survived, we had um, we survived, we uh, we got out alive and uh although there were many that tried for us not to survive that, but um, we, uh. We learned a lot about cultural exchange on that day, for lack of a better word, but um, that was not going to put another map up.
Speaker 2:Are you ever? I, I think, uh, I should I should. Yeah, you know, you know he's looking, don't give me any ideas, these are the shorts I had on.
Speaker 3:Well, they were nice. I should find a picture they were. They were quite, they were quite colorful, but uh, I will. Uh, all I can say is it was we. Uh, we have had many. We had had many good inter moments as team members, team bonding experiences, and that was one. And for those of you that may not know what willie is, here he is, oh, oh.
Speaker 1:God, that was a great movie.
Speaker 3:That is an old picture of Coach Moreno. Come on, Coach Jennings TJ, Come on.
Speaker 2:Coach Jennings.
Speaker 3:What.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 4:That's a great movie. Hey, that was a great movie. Y'all hate. No free Willie. There's no way. Y'all hate no free Willie Total.
Speaker 3:Change of subject Free Willie Total changes.
Speaker 2:It just came up to me. For whatever reason I saw, coach Cheney, y'all are haters, hey, so going back to I think you guys talked about this a couple of shows ago about getting singled out for being friends with certain peoples and certain groups, correct? Yes, did this not happen to you just recently at the U S open as a coach?
Speaker 1:When? Um, we'll be talking about some.
Speaker 2:I believe a parent was. You're supposed to coach an athlete.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I had a parent and I don't, I mean I'm not going to go into these. I had a parent that was, you know, reached out to me, not a parent. One of my friend's parents reached out to me and asked me to do them a favor and coach them at this event. And I was like, okay, cool, no problems, no worries. And you know, I kind of made it. I talked to my guys, made sure it wasn't interfering with my personal athletes, all good, I get there. And the parent my friend reached out to me and told me his parent wanted to talk to me. And they came to me and we spoke and it was basically like um, you know, sir, I just I feel really, you know, not good about having this conversation. I just, you know, but I have to tell you like I just don't feel, um, I'm worried that if you coach my daughter, that it's not going to be good. Like she just made the national team and I didn't know all this stuff that was, you know, going on between usat and you and all this stuff. So I said let me stop you. And I asked, I was like, so you're, you're worried at june? We're talking about a junior, by the way, we're not talking about senior, not someone like, we're talking about a junior, you're. I was like, so you're worried about if I coach your daughter, you know something bad will happen from usat. She's like, yes, I just don't want her, you know. All this stuff, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And it was just very, it was a little disheartening and very unfortunate for me because, simple matter of fact, you take, I did it as a favor and and now these kids they're worried about at the junior level, that like, if you associate with me or if I'm in your chair with you, that they're going to do something or feel some type of way for you or not give you some further opportunity, that is crazy talk and it's crazy at its best. And I'm not even talking about my personal guys and I know, you know, it's just such a. We can complain about at the highest levels, on top of the national team and the Grand Prixs and all this stuff that everyone deems to be the only important stuff going on. But at the junior level, people fear and feel that if I'm involved or they're around me, that something. Hey, there we go, they're around me.
Speaker 1:Or they're around me, that's something. Hey, there we go. They're around me. They're around me that the USAT is going to do something to affect them, to stop them or not like them, or whatever the case may be, that's unfortunate, but go ahead.
Speaker 2:Sorry, no, that's. I think I mean a couple of coaches talked about it too, where I don't know if it was just me, but seeing other coaches having usat staff coach because they think they're gonna benefit. You saw some, saw some like we had. Uh, some coaches here have some of the staff members coach their people or their, their kids, and thinking I don't know, in my opinion, what's the purpose of that, thinking they're going to get benefits from it and they're going to help first of all.
Speaker 1:First of all, we got our national team members being coached by coaches from other countries, where our national coaches are there like so, so there's no room, like there's can't be any rules to this shit no more. Like there has the rules have been out the window. We don't have no respect for nobody. Like we had our national, freshly new national team members being coached by other people from other countries and and the head coaches are there. Like I don't understand that. Like I know I know we talked about it, but like take advantage of having your national team there.
Speaker 2:You didn't even take advantage of having the experience of having one of your guys there I like I agree and think about just in california, how many great coaches they could pick right To help them if they needed to help. I mean, so you got Velas, you got sleeves, you got the Smith brothers, but to pick in, in my opinion, an incompetent coach because you're on a staff, that to me, that to me is comical a little bit.
Speaker 4:Well, I mean, listen, I listen, I'm gonna jump in. You know, first and foremost, I think, um, like what you said, you know, tj about, they're thinking about that on the junior level and and and they're, they're already concerned. You know that if you're associated with some people, you're gonna you're to have the opportunities. That in itself is real. Even if it's not real, that's what this mom or dad felt like they had to say to you. So that's real. Somebody else could be like no, well, that's not really the case. That's what they feel, and that's not the first person or first group to feel that way or say that. So it's amazing.
Speaker 1:That's all because of my post on Facebook where I literally just said yeah, I said.
Speaker 1:I said this is what happened to me, this is what happened to me, this is what was said to me. This is how I feel. This is it. I don't think I said anything rude, disrespectful. I just I just called the truth. I called the truth about, about, uh, what's it? A Sherman yelling at parents in the stands and telling them to sit down? Instead of reprimanding the coach as cursing at a kid, I told him what was said to me by the ceo. That's all. I wrote so because I said something that happened to me personally. I didn't say, I didn't even go as far as say they're terrible people or they don't deserve their jobs or fire them right away. I didn't say any of that. I just said what happened to me and that made them uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:I think that usat is going to do something against them at the junior level well, I think didn't usat post something about that too, like, uh, I forgot what the words do.
Speaker 1:Let's let's, let's, log off and do our fighting, uh, where it counts in the ring like that in the ring like no, no, I don't know who wrote that.
Speaker 2:I think they posted something like if you are a detriment to the team which is very vague.
Speaker 1:Oh, that whole coaching selection stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we talked about that, that coaching selection stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's talked about that. That coaching selection stuff. Yeah, it's like where they're basically, like you know the they were trying to single out. Uh, I'm gonna be honest with you, like tops coaches and people that worked with a you at one point, that's somehow a detriment to the program and like what bothers me about that. I've been able to coach and interact with athletes that are currently on a national team through the tops program. So if I'm I'm a detriment, I don't know who's a benefit. I've been helping the kids at a different level and now they're on your national team. I coached some of them at the team trials and now they're your national team members. So all these little little spikes in words are crazy. A detriment.
Speaker 4:I got a quick little nugget for you. So if you think about this Grand Prix challenge from the United States, you have Michael Rodriguez in 68, michael Rodriguez in 80, naomi in heavy, female heavy. Adriana Akubik in 67,. You have Maya Mata, you have Isaiah Youngata. You have Isaiah Young, you have Noah Sheinfeld, caitlin Cox am I missing any more? You're talking from the top stuff. Former Topps alums are in the Grand Prix Challenge. How is that a detriment? They're good enough to move up that ladder and get there, and they weren't funding them and they weren't funding them and they weren't funding them.
Speaker 1:Aau was funding them. Top program was funding them to go get Olympic ranking points and experience to be on your national team.
Speaker 4:Where's that? That's a you know talk. I mean, I'm going to get back to what you're saying, coach Lee, but you know even the Tops program, listen, it was. It only was developed, it only was born out of trying to give people some resources. That's it. It wasn't to make a team, it wasn't to you know put, coach. It was for these athletes to go get olympic points. And look what these kids did. They climbed the ladder. Some of them are still there, some have moved on to the academy. Some of them made the national team. That's what it was for. How is that a detriment? How how is that au organization, whoa? Is that olympus?
Speaker 3:yes, sir, yes sir 20 bucks on ebay baby 20 bucks yeah, that blocks a little bad.
Speaker 4:You got my black ball test, um, but no, I just, you know, being serious, you know, just it's, it's funny, the detriment. We're kind of going all around with this. But, you know, getting back to even the tournament, just thinking that these poor kids or these poor parents or these coaches, and like you said, coach, you got some coach. Poor coach says you know what, if I let coach x sit in my kid's chair, it's gonna make they're gonna be in good favor of me. They're, they're not gonna do a better job than you. You train them every single day. It's an important tournament and if you wanted to give them the national team experience, like we said last time, coach Jennings, bring the cadet team, bring the junior team, bring the senior team and say we are going to coach you, we are going to give you this experience so that you can be better.
Speaker 2:I know this scenario here.
Speaker 3:One second. We need an educational moment because we've been referring to it. Oh, man. You better quit, let's hold on.
Speaker 1:Exquisite online dating in the USA.
Speaker 2:So going back to that. So this is the scenario. Check this out. So say I bring my students there, it is, I coach my own, I coach my students, hack is allowed, I coach. What's that? What are you doing?
Speaker 3:one step sparring man.
Speaker 1:That was one step sparring counterattack, but only one counterattack is allowed look, one, only one, the next time you see what we deal with. This is every week. I watch it, but I watch it.
Speaker 4:This is our ADD guy.
Speaker 1:You got to stay focused. He's your test man. He's got to keep flowing.
Speaker 2:So, shane, I bring my guys there, I coach my guys, but for my kids I have one of those USACT staff members coach. I mean, that's the type of stuff that's happening, right yeah, which is kind of crazy, because you're thinking I would have that guy coach all my athletes, correct?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's just weird man.
Speaker 2:All this stuff is just crazy from day one.
Speaker 3:So fear of exposure to and I'm not talking about the kind of exposure you're thinking about, tj Fear of exposure to others is a lack of self-confidence. So when you doubt yourself and you doubt your programs, you're unwilling to bring in people that may be able to help your program. So you have to, and I used to run into this, this. So over the years I had to think about it a little bit. I would go around the country and I would do seminars after the olympics. And you know who I did seminars for? Mostly karate schools, mostly karate schools. And the reason was because every taekwondo instructor in the country, um, was afraid to bring anyone else and it, every taekwondo instructor in the country, was afraid to bring anyone else that did taekwondo because it undermines them, they thought. Then, when I started doing taekwondo seminars and camps with Coach Moreno and others, then we opened that door and even then I can count the number of people that brought me in that were taekwondo people.
Speaker 3:And the ethnicity as ethnicity question, which was fascinating to me and um, however, when you go to korea, the premier jujitsu teacher is white. They don't fear knowledge, they. They their best, some of their best jujitsu people, the guy who brought jujitsu to Korea was a Jewish guy from Boston, along with Steve Kaepner, right? So you got to think about that for a minute. In the States, here in this organization that we call USA Taekwondo, they can't put a man on the Olympic podium. They are afraid of the best coaches in the country. What does that tell you? What does it tell you that when, behind closed doors, it's been said to me don't associate with this person. I can't tell you why, but they lack, and if you knew why, you'd know why we've excluded them. This is the kind of whisper campaign that goes on by the clown show from great britain, and the guy I was looking up, the middle finger guy, can't remember his name, I think it gareth brown or something and this is what happens, right?
Speaker 1:so when you fear your own bona fides or your success matrix, that's when you exclude we just pretend like that didn't happen, like that man didn't just stick his middle finger up and put it on social media I just looked up there the leader of our athletes and he's supposed to be the guy that's. You know, like, how do we exclude it?
Speaker 3:pretend like that was a joke I looked, I looked up there, I looked up their social media post and there's their thing and it says there's social social media, whatever, uh protocol, and it's like oh, if you say something not nice, we'll take it down. So what happened to gareth brown? I called jay warwick on this and I called mcnally and I'm like so let me get this right. Your national team coach can put up his middle finger in an international event and put it on facebook, and you guys do nothing I think they might have reposted it, they might put it on their and you guys do nothing.
Speaker 1:I think they might have reposted it.
Speaker 4:They might have put it on their own personal page, who knows? But you know what? Again, listen, we know there's a double standard because, again, god forbid, you did it, coach Jennings, god forbid you did it, coach Lee, god forbid I did it. I mean, it would be we'd be gone, we'd be gone, but certain other people can do it. And let's give it a benefit of the doubt. We talked a couple episodes ago about a situation at nationals that that happened like no repercussions. Matter of fact, that same person is traveling with the national team on invite did, my did all the athletes on the national team get invites to go along or be a part.
Speaker 1:Do you do? Do you know that? Did they get invited to go to dutch open and belgium open?
Speaker 4:oh, I highly doubt it sure not, I'm sure not so going on again.
Speaker 1:I mean it makes no sense. So everyone's not. How are we getting personal advice to someone, to a kid, that's not even on the us national team? He's not even on the national team, so so how do we get these invites? Let me know, how does this work? How do you get the? How do you get to go and train there and be a part and show up and do whatever? Just write it down somewhere, so everybody knows that's what I want. I don't care what you want to do?
Speaker 1:Just write it down and show the people how it works.
Speaker 4:I mean, we listen, we know they select people that they think have potential and then those people get preferential. I'm just saying those people get preferential treatment over national team members. The national team member at least, for better or worse, whatever you think about them, they proved it on the day and won the team trials. They're the team member. But yet these other people, just because they've, I'm going to say, drank the damn Kool-Aid and said I'll go out there, and now, now they get, they get travel, they get coaching, they get whatever it is, they get, I don't. I don't really know, but to your point, tj, why not these other people? That should be first in line, that should be first and foremost.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's part of the problem here. Right, but going on a double standard, I want to ask a grandmaster Perez, because, again, if we, if any of us, would have done some of this stuff, we would be crucified, is it? This is kind of back in the day, I believe I coach marino talked about this or told me about this, when a board member, I believe a board member contacted coach marino yeah, to not associate with me, right, I don't know, I don't know. Is that, is that? I mean, what is that? A board member?
Speaker 3:yeah, the board members should be censured, right like, but the problem is that they don't. You know, the organization as a whole has become um, I don't even want to use skittish. It's become insular, exclusionary and protective of its uh perceived importance and as such, it feels that it can, at its own distraction, discretion, exclude people or inherently exclude people or have people. We had a coach that was coaching when I was on the board. He was coaching other athletes from other countries. While he was coaching our athletes, I didn't call anybody and say anything. I filed a complaint against him. I filed a complaint and had him removed. So we was. We had a hearing, he was removed. I did the right channels If you feel somebody's doing something wrong as an organization.
Speaker 4:Okay, I got some. That's the way you do it. We lost you. That's funny. Okay, fun Can. I hear you, we can hear you, You're good. So actually it's funny. I didn't realize that. So again, national team coach getting paid, getting paid coaching other athletes to make it to the Olympic Games of people in our own division. How is that okay?
Speaker 3:And again, it's not okay.
Speaker 3:But, somebody's got to in the situation that we had. I filed a complaint against the coach, had the coach removed and suspended, and that's the proper way to do it. But, more importantly, the question becomes at that point I believe the CEO was Parthens why didn't Parthens handle it? Why did he make me handle it? He should have handled it. He's an employee of the organization. Employees have rules and they also have rights. They have prescriptions, and one of them is when you're coaching the national team, that's your job, that's what you do and you don't do other things. What I've seen on the website now, which I found even more fascinating, is are these seminars that are being coached by athletes? An athlete who did seminars when I was on the U S team. I never had anything. They didn't put mine up there. There's a reason you don't put mine up there If I'm not participating in the profit, meaning the organization.
Speaker 1:Well, they're doing it together.
Speaker 3:So if they're doing it together, that's unfortunate as well, because you're excluding other athletes from money and you're promoting certain athletes over others or certain coaches over others. Now you run a national coaching program, which we did, and we made a ton of organizational money. We made a ridiculous amount of money for the organization and we made money for us, the people that built the program. But we didn't exclude people from teaching in it. One of my instructors was Sherman Sherman Spinks or Sherman Nelson or whatever he calls himself these days. We offered it to anyone that wanted to be involved in the program, and Coach Moreno was involved in it, jimmy Kim was involved in it. Anybody that wanted to teach could teach. They had to get, they had to learn the method, they had to do. We didn't exclude people and in fact we opened our arms to everyone.
Speaker 3:You want to be part of the USA coaching program? You want to be part of the CIDP, the AIDP and the referee program Big, and we had Leon Preston, we on Preston. We had Holloway, we had Coach Moreno, we had Lopez, we had the Poos, we had Nelson, we had Jimmy Kim. We had guys, by the way, who you don't even know. Uh, hold on a second, my phone keeps hijacking me. Who's the korean kid out of? Uh, the middle? What's up more? What's up more. We had people you never heard of that we taught to run the program. We that. We said come, we will help you, we will educate you, we will help you. We didn't exclude people. We had the best and the brightest, but we had those that wanted to be the best and the brightest.
Speaker 1:But didn't they like going back? Just so I'm not mucking in the water here, didn't they? Did you say?
Speaker 3:not a mucky in the water.
Speaker 1:No, mucking, mucking, mucking. I was like that's some sort of racial slur. I don't even know what that would mean. Anyways, like what I was about to say. So you got at one point even didn't they go to the coach Lee, didn't they go to the extreme of when you set and help other countries, wasn't that a thing? Oh well, he coached for this country and it was at some random tournament at Open, where you were doing someone a favor. You know, you set for someone in one match or something. It was a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Now you found. They called me a trainer Let me get that straight. Yes, there we go they called me a trainer. It was you bring. I mean, it was Adams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Jesus. So I wasn't part of the staff and Adams' train is actually. You know, we kind of adopted him. He's like one of our students here Needed a coach and went out to the Korea World Championships and his first match was against USA. Then Adams beats him Great kid, by the way, From the US. Adams beats him Now, it's just an uproar Meanwhile.
Speaker 4:They do that all the time, all the time. It's my double standard. I'm going to go back to the coaching thing because, again, if you're getting paid to do something, like you know, for a national team and you're going to love this one, herb, because it was Mr Warwick you know there was a situation where two American athletes were going to fight and TJ was coaching both of them and he had to make a decision and so Paige McPherson was the one he wasn't going to coach. So go ask the national team coach and he's like if I can't coach her the whole time, I'm not coaching her at all. I'm like number one, you get paid to do this, nobody else getting paid. You're getting paid and this is your number one ranked athlete in the country. Like you can't. And it wasn't like she was fighting somebody else and you were. It was American against America, like you couldn't sit in there. And when I told him, mr Work, I was like I think that's wrong. He's like I don't see that way.
Speaker 1:One and I'm like what do you see it as? What do you see it as?
Speaker 4:I mean, what do? What do you see it as? You're literally turning your back on an American athlete. You're getting paid for it, you're best American athlete at the moment and you're just saying, no, I won't do it. I just understand the rationale.
Speaker 1:Let's not pretend that. For reverse, they're coaching against Paige at US Opens with Cheyenne. They were pushing Cheyenne to take the spot within the US. She's the one she's getting funny and going places as well to take the spot. And that's just what was going on. If you guys don't believe me, tell me I'm wrong. Someone tell me I'm wrong. Anyone write on this post and tell me that I'm wrong. That was going on with our own country. They were sitting there coaching that girl against Paige, page against page, in our at our own us open. And then it's oh well, they don't want to train with us, cool, but you're doing the exact thing. You couldn't even sit in their chair for one match my question a double standard.
Speaker 2:If, if any of us, if I would have reached out to anyone to the board this or that, I would have been, they did, they were to your to your, your, your post, you know, a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 4:I know we're building, but it's the same thing. They didn't want you to be in a training because you know me and I might tell somebody else who happens to be my like. Connect the dots like we're. Meanwhile, hundreds of teams training the same facility at once, but they're're excluding you.
Speaker 1:To my boss though. Like think about that to my boss. So I'm getting this from above telling my boss. That's the reason why because I'm going to go back and report to you Like, are you guys stupid? Like that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life, and I was just, and I was just. They just pretended like that was normal. They pretended like that was some normal thing, and that's what they're afraid of.
Speaker 1:Either I'm the nastiest coach in the world and I can just look at someone and be like, hey, coach, this is the answer. Or they are just, or I just.
Speaker 4:I know you said it last time but how stupid and how petty I just did again. Double standards all the way around. And, coach Lee, I'm going to bring you up Cause I'm not. All I'm going to say is, for example, whatever they think, whatever they like or don't like, your daughter fights for another country. You coached for that other country and at every turn they try to get you disqualified. You have a passport, you have citizenship, you have a gaul, you have all the things that the WT requires, and you got their legal staff showing up to the Olympic qualifier to mess with your daughter's brain, to try to get Spending all money, spending USA team members money.
Speaker 4:For no particular reason. Meanwhile, it happens all across the world. You got Russians fighting different places, you got Iranians fighting different places. You got a great Britain people fighting for Moldova. I mean, it's listen, whether you think it's, it's an all sports. You, you did things by the book. You have a passport, you have a citizenship. That country gave it to you. This country allows dual citizenship. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're there, but they actively go out to hurt someone like you, not because of you, but because of what you got on your damn chest right there, because who you associate with and who you associate with, it's they just. It's the double standard.
Speaker 3:Meanwhile, a form, I got that one too this is what a chest protector should look like. That's what that's what?
Speaker 2:how do you charge that up? Where's the core? Where's the core? But the like. I said all the things that the double standard is just. It's just crazy and from the get go we knew we had to stop.
Speaker 1:It has. But, then, but then other athletes come back to the. Us and leave. I know, but they do it when they, they do it when it benefits them.
Speaker 2:Sure, so this check, so this is another thing against us. So this is another thing against us. So even a staff member I don't know if you guys remember this posted something about. Didn't say my name, but basically it was me threatening them At an AAU, threatening them and this and that Posted it. Yeah, posted it and shout out to Doug Baker who was there and called that person out for again. They're just trying to.
Speaker 4:It's just always something like slander this, but again, it was a, it was a conversation it was, we were joking around. Wait, wait, let me let me say it's a conversation, let's say let's say it got heated, let's say it got debatable. That's all it was. There was nothing more, nothing less. But yet they can go on social media and it's a big deal, and now you're supposed to be in trouble Again. We got a guy doing this. We got a guy doing this guy doing this, no problem.
Speaker 2:God forbid you have a conversation. If Doug Baker wasn't there, it'd still be on there the next day. Deleted Delete. But that's the stuff that's going on. I mean, the problem is, we all know it's just been going on too long Too long.
Speaker 2:We have so many great coaches, we got so many great athletes and the numbers are dwindling because of this and it's crazy. Where you should be, I look at just like running a business. You should appreciate people like us, who are brain, who are still passionate, who love what we're doing. We're bringing. We have athletes, we're bringing them, we're making you money. But to try to push this away makes me no, makes no sense to me.
Speaker 4:That's like, even though, even though we're not, we're not welcome, let's be honest, they're not. When I say welcome, they can't stop because you can get a membership. But we're not not welcome, they're not happy to see us, and yet we still do. Why? Because we love Taekwondo. Why Because we want to give our kids an opportunity. So, despite all this craziness that we've talked about over the last three or four podcasts.
Speaker 4:We're still here, we're still giving, we're still providing, we're still mentoring. I mean, if we truly just we could just pack our bag up and that's it, we quit. But we don't. Despite all this resistance, we're still there. That's what I'm most proud of. I've always said and I think, grandma's president, I told you, we talked about this a long time ago People are going to come and go and I know people are going to come and go, and the specific people that are running this organization, they're not going to be here forever. I will. I'm from this country. I've been in this organization since the early 80s, the early 80s. I'm not going nowhere. This is what I do. This is what's in my blood. This is what I do. I do take one note.
Speaker 2:Hey, grandmaster Perez, the US 18 Nationals are in Cali, you going?
Speaker 4:Nope.
Speaker 2:I will buy your spectator ticket.
Speaker 3:Where are they?
Speaker 2:I think they will take them out.
Speaker 3:Where are they?
Speaker 4:I think they're in Fremont, California.
Speaker 3:Nobody goes to Fremont.
Speaker 1:I think you should go to Fremont. I think you should go, let's go.
Speaker 2:I'll go with you. I'll buy you dinner. Let's go. I'll go with you, I'll buy you dinner?
Speaker 3:I'll buy you dinner, as long as we can get some Chinese kimchi.
Speaker 4:Coach, you're going to go. You're going to go. Yeah, I'm going to go watch. Okay, I'm going to watch, you're going to watch. Let's go in some kind of ninja guard and just sit there like this.
Speaker 1:Please don't do that.
Speaker 3:I don't have to pay for admission because I have a lifetime membership, apparently.
Speaker 4:There you go. You got to pay.
Speaker 3:You got to pay.
Speaker 1:Is that lifetime membership supposed to include spectator fees for stuff?
Speaker 3:Did I miss that line? I'm about to ask for a refund.
Speaker 1:Lifetime mission I got a lifetime membership. I'm going to send you guys. Y'all are getting a refund request from me.
Speaker 3:I think they may have rescinded it, but I don't know. I got to tell you.
Speaker 2:Let's do a show in California then.
Speaker 4:I will gladly do a show in California then I will gladly do a show in California TJ, you can do it just with earphones on, you can have your camera and you can be talking. I can't imagine.
Speaker 1:Don't really kick me out, TJ card.
Speaker 4:that, there you go.
Speaker 3:This is Moreno Perez and the Dream Team. This is back in the day. I don't know who this guy is, but this is moreno and perez, and you still have that jacket, sir.
Speaker 1:You still have your jacket I have all those jackets.
Speaker 3:I keep those jackets. They're, they're really good so why?
Speaker 2:why you gotta bring that up? Because I just kind of I always just gotta go back here, just in case.
Speaker 3:Just in case, this is a lifetime. This is an actual depiction of me when I was are you sitting on a toilet paper? What is that sitting now, that is in my, that is my shaving cream and that is tape. Why?
Speaker 2:you got a blue belt, yeah why, you got a purple belt.
Speaker 3:I I actually complained about that. I was like, why do I have a purple belt?
Speaker 1:but what are those shoes? What are you wearing? Combat boots, Dude.
Speaker 3:I was no, no, no, no. Go back. Don't be jelly now. Don't be jelly.
Speaker 1:And then here's some beautiful saffron rice from my cookbook. Which I sent only to my friends.
Speaker 3:And then this is TJ lounging in his spa somewhere. Relax, dang, dang, you're the one that said it. I didn't say it. I don't judge who said it.
Speaker 2:Come on, coach Jennings, come on Fire back, fire back.
Speaker 1:It's the Puerto Rican in him. I'll just stay back and just mind my business. You're Puerto Rican.
Speaker 2:You didn't know I was Puerto Rican. I, you're Puerto Rican. I thought you were Mexican. Oh, he's not worthy of that. I know he's from New York. Man, everyone, puerto Rican or Dominican, there, right.
Speaker 3:Well, it used to be. Now I think it's changed again. But I've got to, now that you've said that I've got to figure out what the difference is between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans.
Speaker 2:You're all Mexicans, oh, oh, hold on, just like we all Chinese. We're all.
Speaker 3:Mexicans, oh my God.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I told you I had 206% Chinese. You might get a call from that.
Speaker 3:What is the difference between? Who knows? Can Puerto Ricans and Mexicans understand each other? That's the first thing that comes up. That's it. Are Puerto Ricans darker than Mexicans? Hold on, what are you looking at? I'm just looking at. Are you Hispanic? If you're from Puerto Rico? Yeah, google, of course Dr Google knows everything it says here. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, no, yeah, google, of course Google knows everything.
Speaker 4:Do you remember Puerto Rico it?
Speaker 3:says here oh, that's funny hey, google don't know. Coach Lee Puerto Ricans and Mexicans.
Speaker 1:Puerto Ricans are smarter, do you?
Speaker 2:remember when Puerto Rico could fight our Nationals. That's what you gotta do do you remember?
Speaker 1:when Puerto Rico could fight the team trials and Nationals. Here they can't anymore. I don't know. I was about to ask you. They did. It used to listen. Christian Melendez used to always come over and fight 54-58.
Speaker 2:They always could, I think.
Speaker 3:They can still fight in the US system. Yeah, oh, you can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, apparently I'm going to find out. I'm going to start sending my guys to both.
Speaker 4:Why not Shoot?
Speaker 1:I don't know no, you can't.
Speaker 4:No, not both, you can't go there.
Speaker 1:I'm saying like no, no, no, I know which is kind of, but but back then you didn't have gals, though there was no like gal thing. You think that matters now?
Speaker 4:that's a good question, good question hey you could have both.
Speaker 2:Mr don lewis will find out real quick because they're both.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because you're a citizen, we did not use you did not use mr lewis's fullest capacities? He's really uh I had a couple requests. You were trying to request people. That was people asked me. They're like a couple. People said, yeah, you got to have him back.
Speaker 3:I said we're gonna have him as a reoccurring guest.
Speaker 4:He was great and he's obviously full of information. I like what tj said. Maybe we get a subject and he just literally can break it down and we can ask some questions, because I know we're all around and we're pretty free flowing.
Speaker 2:Quit talking about karate. I said talk about the gold, that's it. I don't even care about the other stuff.
Speaker 1:And then he was dealing with Nico's dad, cutting him off every two seconds with pictures and different things distracting him.
Speaker 4:He didn't know what to do with you he was all in his way and stuff.
Speaker 1:He was trying to spit knowledge and stuff. You know what I mean. I think it would be interesting to listen to him.
Speaker 3:I think his dissection of the financial state of USAT and why it came to be and what the numbers mean. But I think his numbers, which I'm surprised USAT is afraid of, they really do have to do a forensic on the numbers of what's going on in the sport In a country with 330 million people. When you have diminishing numbers in membership, it's demonstrative either of exclusionary policies or of a downgrading of the opportunities being met. So starbucks opens the store nationwide, worldwide. One a day, minimum, one a day. There's a new starbucks somewhere. Can you say the same with taekwondo? No, you can't right. So I mean there's something going on here, um, that can't be explained by wooden swords, that I'm a black belt within and or or miami hats, or you know my opinion doesn't matter. So you know we've got to. We've got to get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 2:Oh no this is what we got to do. You gotta, you gotta, get mr don lewis. He's got to be the new doge. Oh, oh, shoot, we call it double D oh my gosh he could be the new Elon oh my. I'm trying to be polite, coach Jenny's getting all mad at me like, hey, settle down man. Hey, I like your shirt. Tj yeah, let me see it. Just defended him.
Speaker 1:Hey, I like your shirt TJ my opinion offended.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me see it, my opinion just offended him.
Speaker 4:Did you hear what I keep doing? Self-defense.
Speaker 1:That's good One of my clients had this shirt, I had to go get one. I'm like that just fits the topic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we got it. Well, I think we've taken enough of people's time today, but we'll have you back on, despite what Moreno says about you. And then am I seeing, are you a seventh on? Is that what I'm seeing back there?
Speaker 2:Come on, I got an eighth on from Grandma Speck.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 2:And then what I can't be like you going to Korea trying to get wearing that shiny garb.
Speaker 3:Dude, I don't know how they figure. I don't know how they. You know, we have a good friend of ours who took the test. I don't want to mention his name until it's official because I don't want anybody to interfere with the results. But we will soon have another ninth Don, a good friend of ours, and we'll celebrate it once it's done. But you never know the mechanics and the wheels that pull those wheels. I don't want to yes, sir.
Speaker 3:I was pretty quiet about my test till it was done and then, when they put my results out, I actually took a picture of it. I want to make sure they couldn't change it. Like I'm reading the email, it's like, oh, you know, we test a lot of people and we did a very thorough review and I'm waiting to see. Oh, I failed, I failed. And they're like congratulations. I'm like what? So I was like like, click, let me take a picture of it. But, um, I'm honored to uh have been able to do that journey and I worked on my to the nth degree to make sure it was correct. And now, uh, the finger goes here now, when it used to go here like, oh boy here we go.
Speaker 2:I can tell you where the finger definitely put it on the screen.
Speaker 4:Man, that's a that's a problem with sorry, that's a problem with our art that they're gonna. It used to be like this, but now it's like shut up man.
Speaker 3:It was either right or wrong. It all came from karate who invented walking stance shut up. First of all, walking stance is the dumbest thing that I've ever seen.
Speaker 4:Am I wrong?
Speaker 2:Come on man.
Speaker 3:Don't get everyone started now. No, no, pumse is what athletes do when they're injured. I mean, let me just be clear.
Speaker 4:No, I have respect.
Speaker 3:I have respect for all these guys.
Speaker 4:You can rip.
Speaker 1:I remember when, like I, competed in what's choreo and you had to take all the way back up. You know you're supposed to be one and you try to get really high on the second one. I remember the years after, like no, you have to kick at your head level for the unflexible people in. But now it's back yeah but, we're kind of, that's crazy you know they hurt my arm.
Speaker 3:I was trying to do court old school like like this and they don't know these people, they just make it up and they change it so they can have referee seminars. I'm sure if it's traditional here's the, here's the paradigm If it's traditional and correct and it came from a cave wall with two fat Koreans 50,000 years ago, then it's traditional and correct. You can't change it. You can change the kicking technique for sparring, because you know it is what it is. But if this was the right way and you're pushing the boulder up the hill and it's correct back then, then that doesn't change. This doesn't change Maybe the boulder changed.
Speaker 2:There's not a better way to do it.
Speaker 4:First of all, why is pushing a boulder a?
Speaker 2:martial art motion. First of all, from a Korean, I would use a wheelbarrow, a motion like this. This motion would be in the poomsae.
Speaker 3:I don't want to offend anybody, or I do my Korean accent.
Speaker 2:You probably don't want to do that.
Speaker 3:No, I'm not going to do it. I have enough people hating on me.
Speaker 2:We're already going to get calls.
Speaker 1:They're going to call iPad. I don't want to get I. I have enough people hating on that.
Speaker 3:We're already going to get calls. You know they're going to call ipad. They don't know your name, it's ipad, so they're going to call my email. Sorry, not sorry, but my email address is tj jennings, you know. But uh, we, you guys missed the beginning of the show where we had to help Master Lee, grandmaster Lee, figure out how to use Google, and we made a very special email address for him, which I won't repeat on. It's a reference from the movie Platoon but, you'll know what it is.
Speaker 2:And if you would have heard the words from these guys, you'd be canceled for sure.
Speaker 3:Nothing but mad, love and respect.
Speaker 2:So many curse words coming my way, blah, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:It was a close call. I'm glad you made it. I'm super glad you actually got it. It was close, it got late, my phone started dying, the sun started going down, but I'm glad you figured out how to access your email. I'm actually glad that you could find how to access your email.
Speaker 3:I'm actually glad that you could find how to use an email on that flip. I was so happy you still made flip okay hey, you started out like this.
Speaker 2:Now you're gonna end it like this. Now I'm gonna get off the show. I'm gonna be a little bit pissed you'll have to come back.
Speaker 1:You'll have to come.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna text you guys for sure, but it was, it was awesome. You guys, thanks for having me it's an honor to be with you guys. Uh, so amazing.
Speaker 3:Uh, taekwondo people athletes, my mentors well, I would talk, I would talk you guys have helped me in so many different ways. I would talk to you more, but I've been told not to speak to you from, uh, some members of the usat.
Speaker 2:But email me, no, I just but.
Speaker 3:You guys are awesome.
Speaker 2:And I hope this show continues and grows and hope to be back in June.
Speaker 3:There's no end of July, well, best wishes to your athletes from all the various countries and the places in the States that you teach and your wonderful program out there, which I've never been invited to for a seminar or not.
Speaker 2:Oh, this guy.
Speaker 3:Different story. But you know, I Minnesota, I have been to, I've been to the twin cities. Is it me? Yes, and I love that, and my son is on his college. Do you guys have a university out there?
Speaker 2:No, we're the only state that we don't have any type of education like that here.
Speaker 3:You're kidding. There's got to be something. You're like one of the smartest guys.
Speaker 2:You're going to ask me if we have a university here. I heard you had a pretty good one. I heard you had a pretty good one. Where do you live? We're on the soccer tour, not the luge tour. Very good college soccer programs.
Speaker 4:My daughter is working on that as well. His daughter is a high-level soccer player. Oh is she yeah.
Speaker 2:Where is she at? Well, she's still in high school. She's only a sophomore, but in the next two months she can. This is the year. Yeah, in two months she can start talking at colleges.
Speaker 3:But yeah, we've been through all this feel I listened to some of a lot of it's a lot of garbage, I know that, but yeah, it is what it is. You guys listen, it's the uh hardest things in the world to get recruited for basketball, football and soccer um but some of the window yeah, because you got to kiss the ring and then kiss something else and you can get recruited.
Speaker 1:Pigeon signals and all that stuff. All right, we better stop before we get in more trouble.
Speaker 3:We are the Warehouse 15. Thank you everybody, Dude.