Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Talent ID Camps: Money Grab or Genuine Development?
Three Olympic gold medalists engage in a no-holds-barred critique of USA Taekwondo's latest cash grab – yet another "Talent ID Camp" charging athletes $225 for a chance to be "discovered." The hosts unpack why this approach fundamentally misunderstands how genuine talent identification works in successful sports programs worldwide.
Drawing from their extensive experience both as athletes and coaches, they contrast USAT's pay-to-participate model with legitimate talent development systems used by countries like Australia and China, as well as private initiatives that return proceeds directly to participating athletes. The discussion reveals a troubling pattern of leadership treating the organization as a "personal playground" while members remain complacent.
Most revealing is their analysis of how America's most promising taekwondo talents are currently developing outside the national system. Athletes like Michael Rodriguez and North are finding success through private coaching arrangements, raising serious questions about the effectiveness of centralized training programs that force athletes to abandon successful coaching relationships.
With the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics approaching and America automatically qualifying four athletes as host nation, the team examines what this means for USA Taekwondo's development pipeline and Olympic prospects. Their candid conversation provides an insider's view of the challenges facing American taekwondo and what must change for the U.S. to maximize its potential on the world stage.
The podcast wraps with exciting predictions about the upcoming Grand Prix Challenge and reflections on what truly makes a champion – the right training partners, dedicated coaches, and the freedom to build on success rather than constantly starting over.
From the dojo to your eardrum, here we come. Perez Moreno, Jennings, the triple threat, Olympic gold, no doubt. No regrets. Warehouse 15, the truth we unpack. No sugarcoating, no holding back. Sorry, not sorry for the words we choose. If the truth stings, that's on you, not us, to lose. Tagpone goes raw. We lay it bare. Your feelings might bruise, but we just don't care. We speak our minds. No apologies sent.
Speaker 2:This ain't Warehouse 15. And today I am joined by my illustrious teammates, friends, colleagues and contemporaries. Coach Moreno, how are you, sir?
Speaker 3:Man, I'm great. I'm fresh off my return from your new adopted home state of California. I was in Fresno, never been there before. I found out that I was in the middle of the state. I found out that it's one of the biggest agricultural areas in the country. I cracked up because when I got out I thought I was in Texas. I never seen so many cowboy boots and big pickup trucks. But let me tell you what great food. People were super nice. I went to Carter's Taekwondo. They have a huge, over 10,000 square foot facility, giant place you could hold a tournament in this area.
Speaker 3:Their grandmaster is Master Carter. He's very prominent in the Kuda organization. Their son, austin, has a very good team, a lot of young kids, and got a chance to work with them for a couple days and then when we did matches at the end these guys were scrappy. These guys are tough. Let me tell you, and you know, the California State Championships is huge. I mean, these kids are getting you know four matches, five matches, and some of these boys in little girl division. So they're four matches, five matches in some of these boys and little girl divisions. They're tough. I had a great time. It was a wonderful experience, made some new friends. It was awesome. Now they're back to training here in Miami.
Speaker 2:Good that you came out to visit California. It is a big state. Some people don't realize.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest economies in the world, not just in the United States. It's similar to Jersey, jersey. You got a lot of industrial areas, you got a lot of business areas, but then there's garden. You're called the garden state for a reason. That's where I grew up and you know. If you go to certain parts of jersey, you know you, you think you were down south. That's how beautiful it is and and and things of that nature. So glad you came out. Thank you for stopping by. Sorry, not sorry, but I might have missed you on this trip. But you know I don't drive to Fresno because of the pickup trucks and the cowboy boots. But you're correct, he runs a great program and has a big facility and one of my favorite milks, I think, is made out that way Rossa's milk and it's flavored and it might be fresno. There's another big milk company out there because it's a big dairy thing. How you doing, mr tj? How is everything going?
Speaker 4:so everything's good. It finally stopped raining over here, so just enjoying a little bit of sun. Not as crazy weekend, just some regular training stuff. Just uh. Always excited to get to ths, my therapy days.
Speaker 3:Did you go to the ATU? I didn't go to the ATU.
Speaker 4:One of the guys that trains with me on the weekends, went to the ATU. He actually ended up getting silver. Shout out to my guy Brody. He's at Master Kim's school in South Carolina.
Speaker 3:He comes out on the weekends and trains with us. It looked big, check this out, check, check this out. There's a guy in florida and I and I only know this because I'm in a local tournament one time and they're like juan moreno, to ring three. So I'm like what? So I go, it's a local tournament, I run to ring three and they're looking at me and they're like no, no, not you. And they're like one more. I'm like I am juan moreno. This kid comes up.
Speaker 3:His name is juan moreno no, it's like oh, I meet him, so I see him in all the terms and I remember when he's a yellow belt and a green belt and he would do forms and fighting. I would always watch him a good looking kid, nice kid, respectful kid. Um became a black belt. Actually. He trains with someone that I know and they would come on tuesdays and thursdays and train with us a little bit. And so TJ sends me the bracket and it's Juan Moreno, florida, and he fights his guy. And so then I didn't tell you this, tj, his dad sent me the bracket. He's like I'm sorry, my son had to beat the goat. My son had to beat the goat and I'm laughing, but it's kind of funny.
Speaker 3:The same name from Florida. It's kind of ironic.
Speaker 4:That's pretty cool, but it looked like a good turnout there. I didn't actually get to see it, but I know a lot of other coaches that go out there for the ATU Nationals.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's an up-and-down tournament here and there.
Speaker 2:Well, I just wanted to let everybody know that the Kukiwon posted a board of directors announcement Somebody showed me for if you want a seat on the kooky one. So I encourage everybody to apply because then they can deny you. You best not apply on your list. Your name is Kim Lee or Park and the historical Kim Lee or Park, not Moreno, not Moreno.
Speaker 3:My name is Lowe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can be assured they'll pick the usual suspects and, uh, you'll go through the process. So but it will, really it'll speak volumes to kooky. One's getting a lot of pushback across the world for its um exclusionary practices and then trying to make people take these master courses which don't make any sense and get recertified to become a recommender of black belts something that people have been doing for 40 or 50 years and teach Taekwondo. So, um, yeah, we'll see. I mean we should apply just to apply, um, but we'll see what happens. But I, I may or may not apply and I, I encourage all of you to apply, because you can't cry unless you apply, if you don't enter the mix, um, you know, you can't complain about the results. You can't win the olympics unless you enter the olympics and you can't win a lottery unless you play it. So I, that's my, uh.
Speaker 3:Public service announcement you could be, but we'll talk about that later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:I got a quick factoid. This is for all my hockey friends. Do you realize that there hasn't been a Canadian team in over 25 years that have won the Stanley Cup, Matter of fact, in the last six years six years, the Florida You're about to start a war. Listen to this. This is my man, Mark Warburton, out there. I know you're listening to me.
Speaker 4:I got you man Check this out.
Speaker 3:Master Park, don't talk to me about those Winnipeg Jets, man. They got bounced. Check this out. In the last six years in the Stanley Cup it's been Florida teams the Tampa Bay went to three Stanley Cups and won two in a row, and now the Florida Panthers in Miami not a hockey town they've gone to three Stanley Cups in a row. They won last year and we'll see what happens this year. I think it's going to be a repeat of Florida and Edmonton. Edmonton, I think, actually has the advantage this time, so Canada might get theirs. But that's crazy to think that a Canadian hockey club with Montreal, toronto, you know, winnipeg, calgary, Edmonton, these powerhouses of teams haven't won in 25 years, crazy right. Haven't won in 25 years, crazy right.
Speaker 2:Well it's you know it's as I usually do. I was able to find a picture of the Canadians playing hockey.
Speaker 4:So let me share this with you.
Speaker 2:Let me, let me. Oh, I'm in the wrong thing, I went to the wrong place.
Speaker 3:Let me try this with you, let me. I'm in the wrong thing. I went to the wrong place. Let me try to go back. Don't put the wrong thing up, don't put anything weird up there.
Speaker 2:Let me get the right thing up here. Let me get where is my. Let me try to find it back.
Speaker 1:I don't watch that much hockey.
Speaker 2:You don't watch that much hockey.
Speaker 4:I don't watch that much hockey. You don't watch that much hockey. The carolina hurricanes man, carolina was in the finals. I meant to go to a game when I was in colorado.
Speaker 2:I never actually made it to one. Yeah, they're good too. Yeah, stay in room. I I know there you guys are I was trying. No, I'm trying to find you guys. Let me stop sharing. Let me do it right because I did it wrong. Let me do it correctly. Here is why can't I find it is the question. Oh, never mind, I'll show it later. I had it. I don't know where it went. So there's something absolutely wrong with me. I don't know where it goes.
Speaker 2:But anyway, let me not share it if I can't figure out how to do it today. But it would have been funny if I could have figured out how to do it.
Speaker 3:You missed it Timing is everything, coach. Timing is everything, timing is everything.
Speaker 2:You are correct, my friend. All right, so let's get started. What do we got today?
Speaker 3:Listen, I got to go off the bat, man, I got to swing it. Listen, it just came out. Actually, me and TJ talked about it. I was laughing at TJ because he made a comment and I'm like you got to be crazy. They're coming out with another version, three, tj, or four at least three talent ID camp. What Talent ID camp?
Speaker 2:They come out with more versions of the talent ID camp than Tide comes out with versions of their detergent.
Speaker 3:And it's not just a talent ID camp to show what you got, and we're looking for athletes for 2028 and beyond. I'm like, first of all, if we don't know out the athlete pool in 2025 for 2028, I think we're in trouble Because, to be honest with you, you're, you're done by 2027, right, tj? I mean, you got to know who you're going to pick.
Speaker 3:And so I'm just like again, maybe that was just a misstatement or whatever, but I just I thought it was crazy. And then, uh, my, my colleague here was like, man, it's gotta be free, right's got to be free, right. And I'm like, come on, it can't be free.
Speaker 4:So after a little, research by Coach Jennings.
Speaker 3:What did you find out, Coach? How much, how much.
Speaker 4:I think it was like $2.75 for early bird or something like that. What?
Speaker 1:$2.75 for what Early bird? That's what it said.
Speaker 4:Monkey said what 225 an ID?
Speaker 3:camp to show you what you got over two days, and of course they're going to make a little money on it. They're going to take these kids money or whatever, and I don't know where they're going to go. Maybe they have a new invention, maybe they have a new system, a new program. I guess I always got to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it's hard when it's been done once, twice, three times and I just lit a candle.
Speaker 3:I lit a candle for taekwondo's fate I just, you know, I, I, I gotta say I mean, but there's people that have done the talent id camps and like I just don't understand where they you you did, you were, you forget tj no, I don't forget.
Speaker 2:You were in a talent ID camp that we created. We met you, we saw you, we identified you and we thought you'd make great ramen. No, no, we thought you were good at taekwondo. So we identified you as a guy who was good for taekwondo. And how much did we charge you?
Speaker 4:Zero. You know I asked Coach Randall that question. It's crazy because my mom came down and she bought me a bunch of stuff from you know, the stuff she kept over the years, and it was a letter from the Virginia state president saying you know, you've been selected from Virginia to go to the OTC for a training camp. And then there was a letter from Coach Hanwan Lee at the time, back after the training camp. You know, kind of like saying like I did this good, this good, you know I have all this blah, blah, blah, blah and I kind of was kind of cool to look back to see the following of you know where the, where it started, kind of where it went to and like the exchange. But I know they've done this, this before. I just don't. What do you do?
Speaker 3:What's different this time, you know what, of not acknowledge the fact that it's just. It just kind of. You know, happened they, you know they went to these talent camps and then nothing and then nothing. But I mean, and again I'm let me first of all the talent id camp that you went to a long time ago. That was for adults and seniors right, you know, juniors transitioning in it was a very select group. Um, of course it didn't cost. You got your hotel, you got your, you training was free, the, the eating was free and the rooming was free at the old TC at a time. So it's just a different era.
Speaker 3:But, like, I want to just talk about the now and the present, because you know we've had these things. Some of them are pretty big. I think the early ones were very big. I think they've they've shrunk as we've gotten down the line, because I think people are a little bit skeptical. But I know there's a big one in Texas that was run extremely well by coach Johnny Jambi and you know they they brought in a bunch of people and they made a lot of a good chunk of change that was hopefully supposed to be reinvested in those kids, and I'm not sure, if it was I don't want to talk ill will cause I don't know, but I've heard. I don't know the details so I can't talk 100%.
Speaker 3:But I guess my point is like what Two days? You got two days. Is it for kids? Is it for seniors? Is it for juniors, is it for boys? Is it for the girls? Cadets, what is it for how long is it going to be three coaches? What if they get 100 people there? They got 100 people for three coaches. Like, what are we doing here? I just think it has to be a little bit more thought out.
Speaker 3:The timing of it is, I think, one week after the Nationals, I think roughly at the same time that the under-22 kids are going to the Pan Am games. I know there's no perfect time here. I am building excuses, but I just was a little bit frustrated when I saw that, because come up with something new. I mean they have this new seminar series that they're doing with a bunch of people. Okay, great, it's building some money for those guys. I guess, maybe building money for the organization, that's great. It's giving information out to the different areas. I think that's all great. I mean it is what it is they to the different areas. I think that's all great, I mean, and that's, it is what it is. You know they call it, you know their level up. But this talent ID, when you say that, it just wow. It just sparks a reaction from from me and a lot of other people, a lot of other coaches, like we've done this before, two or three times, and here we go again. So I don't know. That's my, my quick rant for the day.
Speaker 2:Well, talent ID. So when you create a high-performance plan for the uninitiated, a high-performance plan is required by the US Olympic Committee in order for them to disperse funds to your sport from the Olympic winnings, from LA and LA is another story we should talk about at some point because they're going to have some challenges but you take that money which the Olympic Committee invest in the Olympic Foundation and some other things, and the money that it makes through its sponsorship deals and it allocates it to the sport. So in Taekwondo's case, they allocate a certain amount of money and in order to get that money, you have to put a plan together called a high performance plan. And in order to get that money, you have to put a plan together called a high performance plan. One component of that is you need to demonstrate how you're going to find talent in the grassroot level, what you're going to do to develop them, what you're going to do to get them into the pipeline. The pipeline goes from grassroots, which is where all of us live as small coaches, in small facilities, which is in small facilities, and then, as you go up through that pipeline, you go into the different levels of elite State levels should be regional levels and then obviously national teams and then your elite, elite competitors. But when you do this ID, the idea is access and inclusion, not exclusion based on economics or relationships. And what we've seen with the USAT's model is it's exclusionary and it's cost prohibitive in a lot of cases, and that's not the original idea behind the ID, the ID model.
Speaker 2:I'll give you one from another country. Australia goes to public schools and it does a series of tests, athletic tests on kids. China does the same thing and they're biometric tests. They might look at a kid's ability to throw, jump, run, stop, whatever, and then through that they identify a pool of athletes and then they kind of funnel them to sports and give them access to the sports that they think might be helpful for them. And so towards that end, the question is, what is Taekwondo doing? Is it a money grab or is it a true talent grab?
Speaker 2:And in true talent grabs and identification you talk to local coaches. And I'll give you again another thing from my life. In my situation there are local scouts that come around to all these various games and they go to clubs where they know there are good players or there's going to be good games and they watch kids. They then identify that kid, they track the kid and then, if they like the kid, they invite them to a talent the equivalent of a talent ID camp, of a talent id camp. And in my situation with my son, that's how he got invited to this earthquakes uh camp right, a professional team. Because they watched them, they tracked them, they told us we've been tracking him, we want to see him now in our environment, come on trial.
Speaker 2:And you know how much it cost zero, nothing, nothing, not a dollar. We didn't spend a dollar, we didn't have to spend a dollar. We went to this training thing and it was. And that's what the colleges do. They come out and Zero, nothing, nothing, not a dollar. We didn't spend a dollar, we didn't have to spend a dollar. We went to this training thing, and that's what the colleges do.
Speaker 4:They come out and they're like hey, we want to see you guys in town. I thought this one would be free because it was at their location. I thought you know what I mean. We're not talking overhead. We're not talking shifting someone's schedule. We're not even at this point. I'm not going to talk about any of that stuff. I thought I was going to be free.
Speaker 2:Well, apparently USA Taekwondo is Spirit Airlines, so USA Taekwondo has become Spirit Airlines.
Speaker 4:Yeah but when you talk about, like you said, identifying talent and trying to get people in a room, we're talking over the span of two days. How many people I mean? That's a lot to ask. No, ass.
Speaker 2:No, we're talking flights you're talking, you gotta ask yourself what your goal is.
Speaker 4:I don't know I guess that's the question, that the goal of the whole. Like you said, we could be wondering what's the goal of the talent id stuff I I've heard. Well, coach merendel said something.
Speaker 2:Good too, coach said listen what do you do with the money? In other words, I don't mind talent id money. So if you say we're going to take um 250 because we don't, by the way, they're doing the talent ID wrong. If you, if the way your kid's getting to it is he pays $250, then you are wasting people's times. You're wasting time. You need to get guys that either you identify or people in your, in your club, and guess what happens? In other words, in in soccer, for example, if our coach recommends a guy to go on trial or says the guy is good and the guy sucks, that club doesn't call us anymore. You know they're like he goes. I'm not putting myself out on this kid because it it comes back they don't trust me anymore. And so when they call stanford to come watch kids, that's because they think stanford will be interested in the kid. They don't say that that doesn't go. Hey, can you get me an invite to go to Stanford? Or here's 250 bucks. You know you gotta be. It's talent first.
Speaker 2:Now if you took that money, let's say you did charge your money. That's not a talent ID camp, that's a training camp. That's a different thing. Talent ID, even a reach, is to take that money and then what do you do with it? Well, if you did something with it would be we've identified you guys. We need this money because we're going to take a small group of people we choose and take them on a trip somewhere and put them in international training facility. Now you go. Okay, I'm investing in the greater good. That money's going and set it to jay warwick and uh and steve mcnally's plane tickets. It's going to something that matters you know I mean so, tj.
Speaker 3:I don't mean you talk privately one time about okay, if you're trying to identify talent, herb, you'll talk about it in soccer stuff. Look, go to the Nationals, go to the team trials.
Speaker 1:Go to the.
Speaker 3:US Open Like, be there so you could actually identify them. You wouldn't even have to have this open cat call because you would be able to identify them. If you can't do that, something simple as if you won a medal at the U? S open or at the national championships that qualifies you for it. We've identified you through your winnings and then you come in there and if you right, or if you're going to do just a USA, take one no summer camp or two day training camp, do it, take the money and just say what it is. We're offering things, we're giving you a service and we're charging money for it. But if it's an ID camp and you're charging for it, it gets a little mixed. I mean, I'm going to talk good about Alex Covert.
Speaker 3:Alex Covert has this Taekwondo union First started out in the Great Lakes, now we've got them all over. I'm going to one this weekend. I'm not saying it's the perfect model, but what he does is he gets people together. They come and all the coaches. They break them up by categories. The coaches take turns coaching everybody. They fight in the afternoon and do matches, test matches, in the late afternoon and then he turns around and gives them money immediately right back to the coaches all vote these five cadets, these five juniors, these five seniors, and if they make ten thousand dollars, they give each person 200 bucks. If they make 20, they give them 500 bucks. Whatever, the only thing that's taken out is the expenses for the gym, um, the mats. Like that, nobody makes money. They give it right back. That's a great initiative, you know I keep looking.
Speaker 2:I'm looking for my in. I was looking for my invite to one of these events. I'm looking everywhere. I haven't seen it. So maybe Alex doesn't know me.
Speaker 3:Oh well, actually I think they're just starting in California. They're doing a lot on the Midwest to the West East Coast right now. To be fair, he's just starting out. He did this as a private thing in Great Lakes and he did it with Michigan, chicago, indiana, canada and he just expanded it this year, starting in January. So I know the New York area is going on. Their second one, florida down here it's called the East Coast, is their second one and again, I'm not saying it's the best or whatever, but it's a great initiative. It's action-orientated, it's giving back to the athletes and it's a great initiative. It's action orientated, it's giving back to the, to the, to the athletes, and it's just it's creating a community. For that I got to applaud them. I mean, I've got a bad thing to say about it, you know it's. And again, it's a private guy doing these things. You know what I mean. When I see that, I'm like how can the organization not do bigger and better? So just a little bit of a, a little pet peeve right now for me.
Speaker 2:I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit sour on that no, you said it, you said it right, and I I love people that do private things. You know, I got a call from a friend of mine, uh, talking about something that you, you've been talking about. So they're trying to figure out where they want to invest their time and money and coverage. And he asked me about the uh, whatever that thing is called that um, rick shin, what's it? Combat Taekwondo, and so they may reach out to Rick and talk about that. But that's a private effort to do something that's well-funded, and I think when you privatize some of these efforts, you've got to kind of talk about it. Your program, the Peak Performance thing, was a privatized development program that had great success and did something that other people have been unable to do in a new way, in a very creative and entrepreneurial sense, that others couldn't do, and so I think there is room for growth in entrepreneurial efforts to expand the reach of Taekwondo, and those are private. Let's be clear If you come to a private program, there are private expenses associated with it because you don't have the Olympic purse strings on it. So I applaud those private efforts to fix it. But the question then becomes if you go to a private camp. Let's be clear you get better service and you should, because you're paying a premium price for better service. If you go to a public health care facility, for example, you don't get the same level of service if you go to a public healthcare facility, for example. You don't get the same level of service if you go to a private health care. So people pay for what they want. So I don't expect USA Taekwondo, I really don't expect anything from them, but I don't expect them to be able to provide the same service that a private guy might be able to provide. But on the same token, for what they get from the Olympic Committee and for what the members get charged. And they should get some level of service and expectation and inclusion, not exclusion.
Speaker 2:And I think what we always come back to is we come back to this thing where we realize the people at the helm either they have two possibilities and we always say this One is they're ignorant or naive, or the other one is they just don't care. So if they're naive and they don't know better, that's a different problem. If they're ignorant, that's worse, because they should know better. And then if they're just profiteering, that's the worst. And I think we find ourselves in a situation where the chicken the fox is watching the chicken coop for for that's a TJ analogy for North Carolina and the the fox and the chickens don't care and, more importantly, people don't realize they are the chicken.
Speaker 2:They got the foxes, which are Jay, steve at crew and pastor schmoogie boogie. He and them are running the organization to their personal, like their personal playground, and they're allowed to why? Because the chickens don't care. So you know, in a weird way, you and I and tj, we complain every week. The people that should be complaining aren't complaining or if they're complaining nobody's listening I don't think they're complaining.
Speaker 4:Every time I see an initiative or a post or a topic, it's always some really random. There was one last, when I was staring at a brick wall for about three and a half minutes, some video they put up and I don't know what that was, but anyways, um, you know it's even sorry. You know it's even more crazy to me because we are getting the olympics in la right, the lead up to it. We don't have any grand prixs here like an actual grand prix, not a challenge, I mean like actual grand prix leading into olympic games, like that's. That's like that's crazy to me. Being united states of america, we, we should have an actual great. There should be a a was a g6, now g6 grand Prix in the United States leading up to LA right. It should.
Speaker 3:Or Pan Am Championships or something.
Speaker 4:Something big right.
Speaker 3:You know, part of me thinks that they don't care because they know they got their four people, so they're going to qualify it already.
Speaker 2:And you said that correctly. In other words, when they're the host, they automatically get four. So have they fallen asleep at the wheel? They don't have to qualify now. All they got to do is choose we're still getting eight, though.
Speaker 1:Eight, it was eight.
Speaker 3:Did we say eight. No, they said eight. No, you only get two.
Speaker 4:They said we're going to dominate in 20. Oh, that's what they said. We're supposed to get all divisions.
Speaker 3:I heard one of my friends in the Board of Governors. They said that it should be feasible to get eight people.
Speaker 1:It's very reasonable for them to do it. How?
Speaker 3:I mean that's just a ridiculous statement Feasible. I mean, first of all, no country has ever done that, certainly not the United States, when there's Iran and Korea and Russia, I mean no one's done it.
Speaker 2:But let me understand what that means. So the US can pick four. They pick four spots because that's the max allotment, right? Or is it 18 max? They get two and two.
Speaker 3:Two and two is automatic, but what possibly possibly could happen? You could qualify four and four by the olympic ranking. So if you get top five in the or the grand slam, let's say top five and fin weight, featherweight, welterweight, heavyweight, and the same thing for men and women, theoretically name one country that's ever done it that's my point no yeah, nobody has so all of a sudden, america is going to do it.
Speaker 3:I mean, listen, it's a great goal, we should have some goals, but I think y'all's I goals. But I think we should be in the business of being realistic too. So I mean, have lofty goals, but that's a little bit much.
Speaker 2:Well, with 2026, and let me ask you both a question then In your estimation in 2026, which is two years from the Games, I can think back to pretty much any Olympic year and I probably could have identified the people that were going to be the Olympians two years later. Pretty much, if you looked at 86 to 88, 90 to 92, 98 to 2000,. I can tell you I could name them without even thinking and it was pretty clear two years out, and with the exception of you on the, you were on the cusp right, you. But even then I would have said, I would have said in 86, you were on the cusp right, you can, you'll be within uh realm of it all. So where?
Speaker 3:are they? Where are they now?
Speaker 2:where are they now?
Speaker 3:well, right now, I think that these guys have I think they do have a couple people that they think, especially on the men's side, which is is a little bit strange, kind of going into this whole program, kind of kicking back to the talent ID program. We're stuck with the same two original people that came in seven years ago. I'm just going to say CJ and John Healy. Those are the two males that are on the national team from the academy. They're from the original group, the academy. They're from, they're from the original, the original group. And yet they're still here and there's not another one what about this?
Speaker 2:mike mike rodriguez, kid, you talked about, yeah, I mean, but he's not with them.
Speaker 3:I mean that's that's, that's my guy, that's tj's guy, right? I mean that's a guy that we we've done, we've developed and we brought up. But I listen, if I had to, if I had to bet right now they're going to leave him on the outside. They want these other two guys. I mean we're going to have two years. You know everyone's going to have two years because all these things, all these points are going to get reset and we're going to see, starting next year, who can really put up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be.
Speaker 4:It's crazy Cause, like I mean again, every country is going to go through this at the exact same time. But going back to zero two years out, it's a race. At that point it's up north. He's a good young kid.
Speaker 3:He's going to fight 74-80. He's going to be at this Grand Prix. He's been training in Europe a lot. He goes back and forth between Europe and Fort Lauderdale with his father. They have a good rhythm.
Speaker 3:I give the kid a lot of credit. He's like 18 years old. He's fighting big matches. He's winning some. He's losing some. He's meddling all the time. I mean he's just like any up and coming athlete. He doesn't look afraid. He stands in front of anybody. He's in hard out. He's not going away. He pulls matches out. When he's dominating he dominates. So I think he's going to give some 80 guys, especially in our country, a run for their money, and I'm saying that right now.
Speaker 3:I mean, give the kid two years. It's the same thing with Michael Rodriguez Young, obviously fearless. He still has a lot to prove, just like everybody. But if I got to bet, I'm betting on those two young kids. If I got to bet, knowing what the Olympic age range is, I'm investing heavily in those two kids. The ironic thing is both of those kids are doing well outside the program, outside the program. Now, will the program assist them and add to what they're doing? Will they cut them off? Will they require them to come. That's going to be a question that's going to be probably talked about over the next six months.
Speaker 4:You got to get away from that requirement to come stuff though.
Speaker 1:Like I said, like it, just like I said yeah like it just doesn't make any.
Speaker 4:Again. You I I said it last podcast like I was allowed to stay and train in a certain place because I had success there. But when I first joined the wcap program I had success there, so I was allowed to keep building, at least going in that direction, as opposed to up, like you said, changing your whole system, change your whole training plan, relearning and not building from where you are until you almost get to that brink where you need to possibly go somewhere else. I think we're doing it too early. I don't TJ.
Speaker 3:I'm going to tell you something. This model is the new model, and I'll tell you why. Even Mexico, mexico, has the most traditional national program out there. It's known from cadet, junior, junior. You make the team, you go. And brisaida acosta was one of the main people that lived in miami. She left her program, she came to miami, she trained with me. We got her to the olympics. She won a pan am game, she won grand prix medals and she won world championship medals, and she was one of the first people that left. They let me coach at the Olympic trials First time ever.
Speaker 3:Now, guess what? Carl Sensores is training the heavyweight. He's training by himself. Guess what? Daniela I forgot her last name Daniela is training. She's training outside with her personal coach. So both of her two Olympians are not in the program, they're outside. Why? Exactly what you said, tj. They're having success. They don't trust the format, they have their own private coaches, they have a history of success, and so I don't know if the Federation is allowing them to. I don't know what, but it's happening, and I think the same thing is happening right now in America. You're having kids, they're having success, outside of the program and I think the Federation should support them, should help them. I mean, if they're getting their butt kicked and they're not performing, you pull back the funding. But if they're doing good, you reward them or you assist them. If you truly believe them, you assist them.
Speaker 3:So maybe this means it.
Speaker 2:So the Olympic Committee has has historically and I'll go down to something like, which will make sense for you, for all of us and especially you guys when you watch an nba team and you look at their uniforms, are they all the same? Yeah, on a team, one particular team yeah, they are they all wear the same thing when you look at their sneakers, are they all the same? Maybe no, no, and you know why they figured out that only college yeah, the athletes realize that they need to have their performance enhancing equipment.
Speaker 2:Well, guess what? Performance enhancing starts with training. It's the most important part of performance enhancing. You don't change the thing that brought them to the table, because that's the thing that enhances their performance. Nothing is more important than where you train, how you train and who you train with. That's where true performance starts.
Speaker 2:So why would you, unless you have a better system, right, and and I'm living this at this moment, right? So it's kind of personal where I'm having to think about this thing and you know, um, you put yourself in the best training environment you can with the best coach. So if you feel you have the best coach and it's an individual sport, by the way, taekwondo, with the exception that you train with other people for your personal training you find the best training situation with the best training partners you can. If you have it and you think where you're going doesn't have as much or not the right partner, whatever, then you stay where you're at. And I'm living this right now again in my life with my son, right, because he's in a great training facility with a great training partner, but he'd been offered a level up with, you know a level up of every player on the field, and so now it's a tough choice.
Speaker 3:Different because you got teams.
Speaker 2:You got teams, you know and that is it is different, but different in a different way. In other words and this you'll, you'll understand this. Uh, both of you'll understand this. It's different, but not different. Because when you train, you and I and all of us two things mattered to us. Number one, the coach. Number two, the most immediate thing, was the training partner. If you had a great coach but you didn't have anybody to fight with, somebody to train with I had Kevin padilla, I had mark williams, I had, later years, sean burke, these guys like this. But now, if I didn't, if I didn't have that and I, let's say, I went to the olympic training center at that time who would I have? I would have had you. Maybe, and you're, you know, 50 pounds lighter than me. That that doesn't enhance my training.
Speaker 3:But that's where I was going to go with that. Honestly, see, that's a good point, because there's a myth that you have to have somebody like the exact same as you, because, for example, what weight was Kevin Padilla? What?
Speaker 4:weight was Mark Williams. Yeah, feather, yeah.
Speaker 3:Featherweight and you were a middleweight and those were great training partners for you. Yeah, sometimes you get Better. Yeah, sometimes you might have some people need a heavier, some people need a lighter, some people just need someone that works like I'm going to say something on a personal level and TJ, you know this, we had a lot of people in our room that nobody ever knew, but they were good training partners. They were. You knew if you needed endurance, they were there. You knew if you needed a back, you need a speed guy, you need a, you need someone to scrap with. We always had somebody and even now I feel like we have certain guys that I I got a big guy, I got a featherweight, I got a lightweight, I got a middleweight. I got all these people. They probably won't be world champions, they won't be pan-american champions, but put them in the gym. These suckers can fight, these guys can fight and they know how to work with your people.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, yeah, I, I go, I go back and forth about that. I think I've had, like I said I've. I've had some really good training rooms, even in virginia, when a lot of ivory coast guys were coming over and she's had were coming over. I was always in an intense training room and I was actually one of the athletes that I switched at one point to get to an intense training room to get that shock and that injection back. So I can understand both sides. I think that part's a myth. I don't think we're at that stage anymore. I think you again. I go back to how about, if it's working, let's start there first, like we don't go? Just because it's working doesn't mean let's move. How about you ask the question of what do you need? How about that question?
Speaker 2:What do you feel you need? That's historically what the question was. That was always asked, and the question is what do you need to be successful? What can I do to enhance your ability to be successful and if you don't start with that question yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2:If you don't start with that question. The only reason not to start with that question is if it's clear that the athlete you're working with has no clue. Either they're too young or the coach doesn't understand, and yet you just are. They're lightning in a bottle. They have, they've been successful just because they have ability and talent. Right, then you have a different conversation. It's like what are you doing? Well, you know, I'm running up the mountain three times a day well, that has nothing to do with your success.
Speaker 2:Right, so you know. But if you do have athletes who are in good programs, with good coaches, with historical success, what are you doing? Why are you trying to undo what?
Speaker 1:are you?
Speaker 2:why are you trying to undo his success you? Know and the list of athletes who have changed, who have tried and failed.
Speaker 3:Because of that is very long right but you know what the another model is like. I mean again, first, when I first went to brazil they get. I took a pad of paper. I went to national championships. I sat down almost every head of table right next to referees, people looking at me didn't speak the language and I was just watching fighters and I'd be like, oh, match 115, what's his number?
Speaker 3:And I would go back and I'm like, hey, we need to look at these guys. And then we didn't have money to bring them to all the place, but we could introduce ourselves, find out where they live, find out what state they're from and hook them up with a coach over there and let's see if we can kind of get them. And that's another thing. I mean, you guys, if we see some tall, fast, rocket, like you said young, and we say, man, you live in North Carolina, hang out with, go see Coach. Oh, you live in Virginia, go see this coach, wherever it is, we should be able to hook them up with somebody and maybe, if they get good enough, you know, you bring them out.
Speaker 1:But anyway, you know I would be called a network.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But TJ, I mean, I know it's kind of hard because I know we don't know all the names Anybody kind of fast forwarding? Anybody that you're looking forward to seeing fight in the Grand Prix Challenge?
Speaker 4:I think overall for me, to be honest with you, I think that all the brackets are pretty exciting. It's like a good mix of people. I don't really have any, I'm not sure the energy or level that's going to go into this tournament. I hope it's high-paced, I hope it's big action, I hope it's and for me, I hope it's all the matchups that everybody don't want to slash, do want to see Like. I want it to be one of those tournaments. I miss those days. I know it'll still be a ranking and it still falls in order, but I want it to be since it does. It's like the building year. It's the get us to the next step, like let's. I hope it's lightning. You know what I mean. I hope it sparks you know.
Speaker 3:You know what's funny. I was thinking like, for example, I want to see how some of the old school guys do, like the old school guys, the past Olympians, like, for example, vito from in 58, he won Olympic medal. He got injured at the last Olympics and now he's back. He looked really good in Europe. I'm going to see how he does in the 58. I think 68 is always a. It's a. It's a blow up crapshoot. There's a bunch of Russians in there.
Speaker 3:We have a lot of people that moved up in categories. So I think it'll be interesting. Of course, I want to see my young boy go, michael, I want to see you and him, you know, match up with some, probably some pretty difficult people, but it's part of the process. 80, I told you, I want to see these young. I want to see Victor fight with some of these up and coming 80 guys, heavyweights I don't really know too much. I hope the energy is high, but it'll be interesting to see if everyone ramps it up, knowing what you said, knowing that it counts. But it doesn't count. It's not like the real Grand Prix where it's 40 points and it's in the Olympic year. It's a Grand Prix challenge. They're going to reset anyway next year.
Speaker 4:I hope they take it as one of those. I hope that everyone showed up. Like it's a tough tournament. It's probably the best field you're going to get on this side of the world right now, you know yeah.
Speaker 3:You know yeah.
Speaker 4:If I'm being, if we're being honest like this is the best the field you're going to get on this side.
Speaker 3:For sure. But like, for example, I don't think other countries are like this. But you know, tj, we looked at some of the American list and we got five people to get in each in each weight category. We have some people like that they haven't done anything anywhere and they're going to this grand prix challenge. I mean, it could be some, it could be some lights out. I mean because some of these other countries won't know right, they just see american.
Speaker 4:It might be a little rough for some of these cats.
Speaker 3:It might be a little rude awakening.
Speaker 4:You know we're gonna see but I'm, I hope it's good. What about you? Anybody that's like you said? I know you said, uh, you know michael was standout stuff, but uh, anyone in particular?
Speaker 3:I want to see all the Olympic medalists. I want to see how they come, because historically, you know, young people come out. I mean that's the bullseye. I want to beat that guy. I mean it's almost like a what do you call it a moral victory. I want to see if I can take out an Olympian, you know, take out an Olympic champion. So I think it's going to be really interesting to see how they are they ramped up to move forward or are they just kind of like, uh, living in the past?
Speaker 4:it's gonna be tough for them. Well, I think this is the biggest one, if I'm not gonna say this is probably the biggest tournament that I've like that's been in my country or our country since I've started taekwondo and like like for me, for me, for me, that I could have possibly got to and watched and everything as far as like this new modern game anyways, with with electronics and everything I'm a little happy.
Speaker 3:I was thinking about, if I'm not mistaken, I think 11 or 12. We have 11 or 12 peak athletes coming from our programs and that's from countries like Canada, Haiti, from Puerto Rico, from the United States. Where does, oh my gosh, where does elsan fight for not?
Speaker 3:got me not um I was about to say go bone. I mean I think it's gonna be interesting to see our you know, our kids. I mean we have some young ones that are raw and we have some old ones that are trying to see if they can still do it. So I'm excited for them. You know, I'm excited for our you know I'm excited for our kids when is the event?
Speaker 2:When is it?
Speaker 4:Every week, every week.
Speaker 1:Well, because it's between, like you know, I have like it's on, so what?
Speaker 2:I do is I have like a list of priorities and then I prioritize rather things and I put them in the same category. So like, for example, learning Korean, it's in like the same category as like reading Buddhism. And then I have doing Taekwondo. That's, like you know, in the same category as being successful in life, and then I have getting a nap and watching Olympic style Taekwondo same category. So on any particular day, you know, those two things battle for my time. So there's no guarantee that even if I were to come, that A I wouldn't nap, instead B, I wouldn't come to the event itself and nap.
Speaker 4:But if I did come, I think you got to force yourself to sit in the stands. I challenge you to sit in the stands for an entire day and watch every. I will provide.
Speaker 2:It's like watching a rom-com. Can you get espresso in North Carolina?
Speaker 4:Watch the day, though, of course I'll bring it Espresso machine All right.
Speaker 2:You bring an espresso machine, and it's got to be right near me. And then I'm bringing female, not male, because I won't need male bodyguards. I'm bringing female ninjas that I've trained at my school. That will sit on either side of me and if anybody tries to come towards me that way, they're going to put their hands up and prevent people from approaching me, like I was the president of Gabon. Saturday will be good. I don't want to interact with anyone. I don't want anybody.
Speaker 3:I think that's six days. No, six days.
Speaker 4:First day, friday 58 and 80 are Saturday. Yeah, but I think that's six. First day is no. Six days is first day. Yeah, friday, 58 and 80.
Speaker 3:58 and 80 are Saturday. Yeah, but listen, they're all good because so if you could watch one.
Speaker 2:What would you if you what's?
Speaker 1:the best, I'm going on.
Speaker 2:Friday. What's more than a 50-50 chance I won't fall asleep if I come watch it.
Speaker 3:Friday or Saturday Friday, I think Friday first, because that's men 68, women 57. Man men. We got three divisions that are good. That's what I'm saying. Friday Saturday, yeah, friday Saturday, I call Friday Saturday. Come on, young, is it going to be like?
Speaker 2:taekwondo or legs.
Speaker 3:Is it this Saturday? No man.
Speaker 2:What Saturday?
Speaker 4:This Saturday.
Speaker 2:Two Saturdays 13, 14, no man, what's that? Two saturdays 13 14 15. All right hold on hold.
Speaker 3:On hold on 13 14, 15, let me check something. Hold on, hey, me and me and me and coach tj will buy you a ticket a ticket, oh no, a plane ticket or just a ticket a ticket, no, a ticket to the thing you buy your plane ticket a plane ticket.
Speaker 2:You. You had me at plane ticket. Okay, okay a plane ticket, we'll do it. No, I don't need a plane ticket. You guys will buy me. Economy, I don't travel economy. Oh guys, I don't travel economy. I love you guys, but you know me, I don't travel economy.
Speaker 3:You're like bougie man.
Speaker 2:Dude, hey, hold on, I got it all the time.
Speaker 3:You saw bougie. Hey, you should have got bougie on that damn haircut you got.
Speaker 2:Dude, did you see this thing? By the way, this was talk to your Brazilian friends. Look at this thing. No, don't be First of all you know, this is like.
Speaker 3:Let me see the other side, other side oh the other. Why would you get in a chair?
Speaker 4:I have no idea you know who this happened to? No, this happened to me.
Speaker 2:You forgot this happened to me before. I can't remember who did it, but there is a picture of somebody did that to the side of my head with a razor. It was after your thing, and I have hair like this, like this, but yeah, it wasn't good. I think I'm actually going to be in that area for this soccer thing and so we're going for the MLS Next Cup, which hopefully my son's team will qualify for, and I think it's that same area of time. So let me see if I can figure out where?
Speaker 3:where is it? Where's the next cup? Well, first of all, I don't have many rules in life, but one rule.
Speaker 2:Tennessee Tennessee.
Speaker 3:I know, yeah, but you're going to be, you're going to be busy with the soccer stuff. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:They only play one. We play one event a day. Far is tennessee from north carolina maybe I should get a map.
Speaker 4:I think we did this before. How long did we say I don't know, I don't remember. I think we said it last week. I don't remember how many hours.
Speaker 3:It's a good little drive okay, back to my rule don't get in a barber seat when a when a dude don't speak the same language as you facts.
Speaker 2:What? Oh, that's, that's true. That is true. I don't know what I was thinking I should have left. I have a good friend of mine who cuts my hair, but he was busy out of town and I have like a conflict oh my god, it's 9 hours yeah it's a drive.
Speaker 4:I told you what no, no a drive is different than this.
Speaker 2:This is like 600 miles.
Speaker 3:That's a plane it's a different state. What do you expect?
Speaker 2:I mean, come on holy look at the I. Oh what the what is this?
Speaker 1:I think you got to go watch.
Speaker 3:What is this? You would like it? Yeah, I think you got to go watch.
Speaker 2:No, but look at this. Look at I think you got to go watch. I didn't even know where North Carolina was. All right, so Tennessee is not near an ocean.
Speaker 3:News to me. And then look Mr Scholar here. Doesn't know where Tennessee is.
Speaker 2:I have to go through Ohio. No, Charlotte, North Carolina. What is Knoxville? Oh, I like Knoxville. And what is this?
Speaker 4:You are not driving nine hours. This is such a waste of film and camera time. You are not driving nine hours.
Speaker 2:This is you are like this is such a waste of film two months before then I'm going to be in fresno.
Speaker 3:He's like oh, fresno is like two and a half hours, three hours, no, it's too far. Now he's talking about driving nine hours.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not talking about. No, no, I'm not talking about. I'm telling you right, you, right now, unequivocally, if I come, do they have an airport where you are? I mean like a real airport, not one of these like Cessna airports.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we got an airport, what's the name of the airport. Charlotte CLT Hold on.
Speaker 2:I got to. I'll put you on mute. I got to talk to you. We always answer phone calls. Oh my.
Speaker 4:God this guy.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, look at that, look at that. Look at that, look at that he looks like Moles Eric Curry from the Three Stooges. You guys ever remember that that boy got a bowl haircut?
Speaker 4:Oh boy, oh, poor guy, poor guy. But I think it'll be good, I think it'll be good, I think it'll be good, I think it'll be good.
Speaker 3:There's going to be some really good matches. There really are. I mean, I think I'm hoping that we get a couple of American medals. To be honest with you, I think that would be really great for the country.
Speaker 2:That was just my wife calling me to tell me she loves me.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's so nice.
Speaker 2:Actually, she was calling to see if I picked up my kids. But go ahead, I'll pretend like it was love hey, your kids don't drive oh, don't get me started.
Speaker 2:The this, this generation, these are I'm uber dad. Uber usually means super. In this case it doesn't mean super, it means literally uber. I'm lift dad. Like I told, I yelled at my son for a while because I'm like you should be driving now. His, my daughter's gonna be driving before him, but you know I'm gonna start. I'm gonna give him a bus card. He can start taking the bus. I yelled at my son for a while because I'm like you should be driving now. My daughter is going to be driving before him, but you know I'm going to start.
Speaker 3:I'm going to give him a bus card. He can start taking the bus. Can he drive, though? No, can he actually drive?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. He didn't even pass the permit test. He took it twice and failed. Like the test, the written test no-transcript. Charlotte, my son's teammate, is going to be playing for the Charlotte MLS Academy there and then let me see.
Speaker 3:You got tickets to the PGA though.
Speaker 4:I used to have tickets.
Speaker 3:It was cool.
Speaker 4:The first year. The first year I got here, I had a lot of tickets to the games for the Charlotte FC.
Speaker 2:It was pretty cool though.
Speaker 4:A good nice stadium Games were always. The weather was cool for the games, sometimes a little cold, but like was. It was a good environment, though, and a lot. The fans love it too. Everybody like. They appreciate the game, and you know they're pushing it down for everyone standing up and they start yelling and cheering. So it was definitely fun, though definitely definitely fun. If you're in town doing one of those, we should go watch one of those.
Speaker 2:I'd be down well, I'll try to see. I mean, I gotta see what a ticket would cost from, uh, mumfers re, burgo or old tennessee to murphy's borough, man murphy's borough, and I'm sure what's the, what's the?
Speaker 1:what's it? What's it? Murphy's borough, yeah, what are you?
Speaker 2:doing there soccer it's got big soccer complex and it's uh, and they're a tennessee tennessee. What does it have to? What's the other thing thing? What's the big city in Tennessee?
Speaker 3:Nashville.
Speaker 2:Nashville. There's going to be an airport in Nashville. Maybe I'll come, but by the way, there's good food. I had great food in Nashville.
Speaker 4:I went to the Rainbow Skull Room.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 4:We were supposed to stop there for a little bit I drove from, was it Miami to?
Speaker 1:Colorado.
Speaker 4:Miami to Coloradoado. Yeah, miami to colorado. We drove. We stopped in nashville one night, but we were how many hours is it miami to colorado? It was forever and a day. I mean, I think it was like over 18, 19, 22. It was deep, it was really deep. I got to.
Speaker 2:I got to a place where I'm willing to drive to LA, because I usually wouldn't even do that. But I actually learned to enjoy Coach Moreno when I made that drive. It was an unfortunate situation, but we had a great time. That drive was a great drive.
Speaker 3:I think any drive is good as long as you have time. You know what I'm saying Time and good company. Podcast.
Speaker 4:I couldn't drive for that long, though it's just like a monotonous task, just to sit there and not run people over.
Speaker 3:But if you had someone that you talked to Like non-stop, it's actually not as bad.
Speaker 2:TJ, if you were in a car with me you would get out the first rest stop, but if you were in a car with me For six hours, Moreno and I. We talked both ways. We talked the whole time.
Speaker 4:How long was the drive, though?
Speaker 2:Oh, six hours, that's not that bad.
Speaker 4:I'm talking like 19, 20 plus like a drive drive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but not straight. What if you drive like eight hours and then you sleep.
Speaker 4:Whatever, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying I like it, but I got to hit up, jim, it's the same as an airport.
Speaker 2:By the time you get to an airport, get on the plane and get off the plane, you know you're driving. I used to do the DC thing. Dc is a short flight from Jersey, but by the time you get to the airport, get to the terminal, get on the plane, get there.
Speaker 2:It's less actually driving, so you know kind of you do that, yeah, but it just depends what you want to do. So I mean, you listen along the way, you might be able to stop at some walmart's or kmarts and find some more joker pursers for your walls, you know I know they have a lot of velvet they got a lot of velvet paintings. I know you're hiding it. I see you hiding it.
Speaker 4:I'm not hiding anything. I'm going to send the letter. Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2:I just want to ask one question before we wrap up, at some point, on any of the walls on either side of your head are there dogs in velvet playing cards.
Speaker 1:Is there a painting of dogs? Not in this room.
Speaker 4:That's in the other room. Other room, okay, and Is there a painting of?
Speaker 2:dogs, not in this room, that's in the other room, other room. Oh okay, and is there a velvet Jesus, a black velvet Jesus, anywhere in your house?
Speaker 3:Other room. All right, good, I'm just joking. Other door, version one.
Speaker 2:Well, oh, I don't go there. No, no, no.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Take it easy, my friend Take it easy.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Well, we all right. Well, we're approaching an hour and I don't want to test the patience of everybody. It's been a great podcast and we keep touching on similar themes and at some point we're going to have to tackle the underlying supporting themes, which is what's our responsibility to develop talent and us being now self-anointed um visionaries for Taekwondo.
Speaker 3:I got one last thing Go ahead. I got you know again. I think I want to just give a shout out to all our viewers, because I mean TJ, you know, you've heard it. The last couple of tournaments Again, we've had so many people come up to us privately and say I shouldn't watch, don't let. What is that, dr Brew?
Speaker 2:I'm trying to get a sponsorship Dr Brew, dr Kombucha if you're listening, anybody know anybody there. I'm drinking your product, if you have. I drink Kombucha every day, dr Brew Brew Doctor. I don't care what I drink, but this one's pretty good. So if you're out there and you want to send me some kombucha, I will gladly accept your kombucha.
Speaker 3:I tried this one time. I like it either.
Speaker 2:In cafe con leche Go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, no, I think it's just cool that people are watching. I think it's funny and ironic that people are like, hey, don't tell people, but I watch your stuff, or I shouldn't say this, but I heard you know it's funny. I don't know why I, but I watch your stuff, or I shouldn't say this, but I heard you know it's funny. Like I don't know why, I don't know why people think it should be taboo. I mean it's just, it's just entertainment, it's just information. I mean I was with somebody a couple of a week and a half ago and the guy was like hey, I took a picture with you and I won't say the other person, and you know we got in trouble. They said that that wasn't good, because you know these you want and this other person, you know you shouldn't take pictures with them. I'm like laughing to myself. And so when I hear people say, you know, hey, I'm a fan of the podcast, or hey, I listen to every single podcast, but I'm not supposed to tell people.
Speaker 4:I'm like, why not?
Speaker 2:But, it makes me want to do it more I get it.
Speaker 2:The truth will be told and it will be told regularly, once a week, and you can like it or not like it and, as we've always said before, sorry, not sorry. That's on you. In other words, if the truth hurts then it's because it's true. In other words, people can say whatever they want to say. People can say whatever they say.
Speaker 2:My dearest and bestest friend and fellow captain of the team that I was the overall captain of, lynette Love, I miss you. I love you. I hope whatever mental torment and pain you're going through it subsides. But just as a reminder, sorry, not sorry. And it reminds me, I read my chapter in the book about being captain of many teams, not just that particular Olympic team, and I tried to lead with a certain amount of leadership style, but it always started with leading from the front and being the example for others to follow. And Coach Moreno has been around when I train and I trained hard, I trained hard, worked hard and didn't accept anything less from my training partners. And Coach Moreno and I actually fought at practices and we trained practices and we kicked targets together.
Speaker 3:I say this all the time.
Speaker 3:I mean, herb, you're one of my best friends ever and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:And just like all of us, we take the good with the bad, and I stand by you and I take the bullets for you when people say I don't let anybody say anything bad about you in front of me because you're my friend.
Speaker 3:But I'll be honest with you. I mean we didn't always see eye to eye, nope on things, but I I and I'm saying this in in all honesty you always led by example and you, you never asked me to do anything that you wouldn't do, and so when I think back at those times, I mean they were tough, we trained hard, we had good days, we, we had good performances, bad performances, but I never thought of you as a bad captain like ever. Matter of fact, I admired because you were so strong, strong minded, and you took way more bullets for us than we took for you when it came to dealing with the coaches, because we didn't have good coaches and we didn't have good staffs and you would go and fight with those guys and we never had to hear from it. You'd come back to it and say we're going to train by ourself or trains at nine, not seven, 30.
Speaker 2:And we were like well, you're too, you're too kind. But you and I and I'll give you a funny memory that we can end on, you and all of us you, I, hanwan and UI Han Wan and James Villasana would literally walk past the dojang, the little crap dojang we had to train at in Barcelona, and the coach would be there waiting for us because we came early, we wanted to be on time. So we'd come early and we'd walk past the dojang and Don Cooper would go. Where'd he go? Where'd he go? And we'd walk right past him to go next door to the little cafeteria which had the cafe con leche, cafe espresso, and we'd sit there and drink our coffee sitting at and we have pictures of us sitting there drinking coffee and the coach would be like where'd you go? What are you doing? Like, hey, we're early, we got time, baby, I know.
Speaker 3:Let me finish with my story. I got a good story TJ. So we had this one coach that wanted us to do kick punch, kick punch, like Ronald's kick kick and punch, kick and punch, kick and punch.
Speaker 3:And this was his method. And so one day we're running in the track and he wants us to do kick punch, kick punch around the track. And I'm like, I'm mad. And one of my other captains, I'm only like let's just do it, let's just do it, don't forget, forget it, just for training. I'm like shit, I'm like let's go. So me and him start going. Herb starts going in front of us. So you know, you go the straightaway and you make the turn, come all the way around. So we're like this and he keeps going. He keeps going off the track. We make the turn, he leaves the track, leaves the olympic training center, goes to the.
Speaker 3:We don't see this guy. We finish the training, we go to breakfast. We don't see him at breakfast. We we get to like training at like three o'clock. I'm like we haven't seen him, like where'd you go? He's like I went to the park, he just kept going. He never came back. I was like this mother sucker got out of the training, didn't get in trouble. We didn't see him until the next practice. It was hilarious, true story.
Speaker 2:It was one of my all-time favorite stories.
Speaker 2:No, because it's true, we had told him it's like my last year. I'm not doing this anymore, I'm not putting up with anything. Leave me alone. If you don't leave me alone, I'm going to go. I'm going to train and win and fight and compete. I'm doing my best. Don't bother me, just leave me alone. Let me do what I do.
Speaker 2:And you know, coach and I have talked about this all the time and I love Don Coon Park and Moreno and Coach Moreno. All these guys are in the stands. So instead of sitting in my seat, I would stand and Coach Park would go. Why you don't sit, I go? No, I'm good sir. So he's sitting and he's got my water bottle. I think he was drinking from it. So I'm looking out at these guys because they're coaching me from the stands, and he's like why are you not looking at me? Why are you looking at that? I'm like I need some help. I'm'm gonna look at my, my guys, but uh, you know, at some point which goes back to the premise of our story sometimes you got to know what's in your best interest and do it. And if that means staying at home, training with your, the guys who helped you get there, that's what we got to do. All right, I gotta go pick up my daughter. I love you both boys. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:And, as we've said, before on behalf of all three of us. Sorry, not sorry, see ya all right, man, I'll get it up.