Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Dad 3- When Magnets Attack: The Hilarious Tragedy of Modern Taekwondo
The dark underbelly of competitive Taekwondo surfaces in this revealing episode as coaches Juan Moreno, Fred Borchardt, and TJ Proe dissect the technical disaster that unfolded at the recent Grand Prix Challenge in Charlotte. What began as a standard tournament quickly descended into chaos when the DADO Gen 3 electronic scoring system malfunctioned spectacularly, with officials secretly adjusting sensitivity levels midway through the competition.
Through firsthand accounts, the coaches expose how morning matches yielded only 16 total points across all rings, while afternoon sessions suddenly exploded with scores in the 30s and 40s. Athletes who fought early faced completely different conditions than those who competed later, fundamentally compromising the integrity of the entire event. The magnets in the new Gen 3 socks proved so powerful they would attract each other even in storage bags—a telling sign of a system gone terribly wrong. As one coach states bluntly, "We're on Generation 3 and it's gotten worse and worse and worse."
Beyond the technical failures, the discussion ventures into troubling territory regarding organizational leadership, selective rule enforcement, and the puzzling decision by officials to declare front hand punches non-scoring techniques despite allowing them to determine match outcomes. The episode isn't all criticism, though, as the coaches highlight impressive performances from CJ Nickolas and other athletes who managed to adapt and excel despite the flawed environment. The conversation concludes with hope-inspiring details about a collaborative international training camp that demonstrates what's possible when coaches and athletes focus on shared knowledge rather than politics.
Whether you're a competitor, coach, parent, or fan of combat sports, this episode provides crucial insight into the challenges facing modern Taekwondo. Listen now to understand why the sport's technological growing pains threaten its competitive integrity, and how the community might chart a path forward.
I'm Paris run to the St Louis grill. I'm sorry, not sorry, ain't it funny? I repeat on the track my sister ill Advise opinions maybe, but facts ain't lies, it's cold metal mentality. Watch the sun rise 1F1,. I'm checkin' in. So we're sittin' pretty. Still mean. Second best in the world. Get ready. Face down to Ponyx, pressure cookin' hot. Gave my sweat, my focus, everything. I got DJ Grimes, a DJ holding down the bar. I'm still on the stage. I want the time to change a new thing Learn to discipline folks, respect for the fight. I'm fighting lies. It's too late. No vitality. We've been through some hell Born and born In reality. Just me Still me Sucking me up in a box. Some of it is something back to the warehouse 15.
Speaker 2:We are coming direct to you from motel 8, where everything is 16 a night, 16 a night for a bed, four dollars4 for breakfast and the minimum wage is $1.50. We are here with the Grandmaster of Disaster and with Coach Juan Moreno. How are you doing, sir?
Speaker 3:I'm doing great. I'm doing great. We've had a long couple weeks. I've been here in North Carolina with Coach Jennings. We'll get into that a little bit. But yeah, you're absolutely right, I'm not actually at the multiel 8, but pretty darn close. So and it's been. I'm going to just say interesting. Some of the things you've been talking about, Coach Fred, is kind of coming true, Kind of true, Kind of true. I've been, you know.
Speaker 2:Between my Uber rides and this place, I don't know bro I to ohio once and I stayed at a motel eight and they broke into my room and stole my passport. So yeah, I I. That was back when I was poor, poorer than I am now. How are you doing bronze tj?
Speaker 4:I'm chilling. I'm chilling just having, like I said, it's been a long week here. We did the grand prix challenge and then a lot of guys stayed over and been at this, my gym, for a training camp. A lot of good exchanging, definitely the hottest, one of the hottest places on earth with that many people in the room, but definitely some good work. But I'm good, I'm good. How about you?
Speaker 2:Well, it's good. Good, well, I'm here. You know I was in Tennessee and Tennessee is apparently the epicenter for thunderstorms and rain, and so my son's last game got canceled. But what a great soccer tournament it was and watched some of the best in the country at this age could train and compete. And it just makes you wonder how does a 17-year-old kid in Manchester get a $172 million contract and our poor kids in the States here can't get a plane ticket or a bus ticket? But that's another story. So, but tennessee was nice. I was hoping to get to north carolina, but the greyhound bus schedule was completely full. You lied to me.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize you lied I was trying to get on that greyhound but I got down to the station and there was a rush to get to North Carolina for dentists and things of that nature, so but we're back.
Speaker 3:Yo, no listen. I went to the little 7-Eleven or whatever it is outside my hotel. Yo, no offense, but that lady had like four teeth and two were in her pocket. I was just like damn it, it's true, it's true.
Speaker 4:It's true. I don't know where y'all hanging on that. Well, I swear, I swear, bro, well, I gave Coach Moreno a bunch of hotels, and then he decided to stay somewhere different.
Speaker 3:So that's a whole other story. That's a whole other story.
Speaker 2:But let's talk about it. But is it true that there is not a Motel 8, that it's a Motel 4 in North Carolina? Is that true? I to motel four in north carolina. Is that true? They can't afford a motel eight.
Speaker 4:I can see in the background you're, that's a high quality establishment you're in, oh, this is my office.
Speaker 1:This is my office I was talking about you. I'm talking about coach morel you.
Speaker 2:You look like you're in a holding cell for ice, but that's a different story yo and you're wearing that jamaican t-shirt you better have your passport. It's a gift from my guy dude if you're walking around north carolina, do yourself a favor and keep your passport, because if you're wearing that shirt no sleeves and that haircut you, you're going to be on a plane we are not talking about hair. I don't want to watch you in the human centipede, not talking about hair.
Speaker 4:That's a crazy statement, but I digress, I'm gonna let it go, I'm gonna let it go.
Speaker 2:Look at that. Look at you, don't be jelly man. This is 65 years. This bad boy still been growing.
Speaker 3:Look at this if we got a lot of hair gold relax.
Speaker 2:All right, let's get on. We got I know we got a lot to talk about today. I heard there was some sort of small tournament event somewhere.
Speaker 3:Well, I got to start with this because I'm young At the Grand Prix Challenge it was the first Grand Prix Challenge of the year, it was in Charlotte, north Carolina, downtown, at the convention center. It was so funny. The first question I got was people were like no podcast this week. No podcast this week Because, bro, I'm telling you people, especially the Canadians, they love it. And then even here at this training camp we'll talk about this later a couple of coaches are like no podcast, no podcast, I listen to it every Friday. It was so fun to hear.
Speaker 3:I had some guy come up to me I think he talked to you too, tj and he was like listen, I want to introduce you. He was kind of like, looking at me throughout the day, I, looking at me throughout the day. I was like, oh, do I know this guy? Then he sat down next to me and he's like hey, I just want to tell you, listen to your guys' podcast, we love it. I've had some issues with certain people, blah, blah, blah. It was just kind of cool to meet somebody that I didn't particularly know and that's listened to us. So again, it's been overwhelmingly positive. People keep telling us telling me at least that we're saying what they're thinking. People keep telling us telling me at least that we're saying what they're thinking, where they're saying what parents are feeling, and so, yeah, I think we're doing the right thing, guys. I think we're on the right path.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad I love my Canadian brothers some of the toughest fighters in the world, just amazing individuals and I'm glad that people are enjoying the.
Speaker 1:You know TJ's half Canadian.
Speaker 2:Which half the sleeves or no sleeves.
Speaker 4:Definitely the no sleeves. Are you half Canadian? No, my wife's Canadian, oh okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, your wife's Canadian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's half, that's half. That makes you half. You're absorbing. You're absorbing 70% is 75%.
Speaker 3:No, but truthfully, from a Taekwondo standpoint, tj has a connection to his wife and we have a peak connection through Coach Park. So we have a we've always had a pretty nice I don't know what. Do you call it like a working relationship with the Canadian Taekwondo people? Right, tj? I mean, what'd you say I?
Speaker 4:hang out with them all the time. I mean like when I'm Coach Carla most of the time I spend with them hanging out and kind of traveling the world and they've always been super helpful and super friendly, allowing me to kind of be with the team and be a part of their training camps and their stuff. So, yeah, they're good people, good guys.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad they've taken you in. It's important to be taken in when you're a little bit homeless and I'm proud. The lost boys Well, I'm happy that you have a place to go in case it doesn't work out here. Jamaica man, Were you on that bobsled team. But anyway, let's talk about the event a little bit.
Speaker 3:Oh, young. So this was like I don't know me and you kind of got into it. We talked about it because Dr Kabiner mentioned something, but I got to take you back to the first day, young. The first day, in the morning session, there was like 16 points scored out of all the matches. Like everything was like weird. Everyone's like what's going on? People are, you know, getting hard the normal stuff and nothing's going up. Matches are one to zero, with a deduction. They weren't scoring punch. We got to talk about that punch thing too, tj. So there was no points.
Speaker 3:So I run into a guy and you know I'm actually here. I run into a guy and he pulls me. I said what's going on, man, the system, the Gen 3 is going. He's like supposedly they put it up, dato, put it up 30% of what it was supposed to be, and supposedly it was. They made that call on their own. Some guy was like oh, I don't like the way it looks. So they put it up and I guess the WT people were like what? And so then they said okay, we're going to put it back. So they put it back. So in the afternoon session the first people come out 30 to 28, 40 to 36, all of a sudden, it's just one.
Speaker 3:It was like 1800 points went up in the same one yeah, it was like a video game. It was unbelievable. Nobody knew what was going on. Then there was phantom points. I I literally, was sending the technical director. I must have sent 15 videos of things that go like this and there'd be five points. Or things would go like this and there'd be four points. It was just, you didn't even know the athletes didn't know what to do, how to stand, how to kick, like it was beyond crazy, I mean am I right?
Speaker 2:TJ? Yeah, but that's the problem. You know, where do you as an athlete? Let's forget about the game for a second.
Speaker 2:As a country, as a country who sends athletes, spends and invests thousands of dollars, brings staff, brings technical directors in the USA's case, they travel from Oklahoma and bring a camera you know, one of those point and flashes that you can get from um 7-11, or as they call it, in, uh, north Carolina, three and a quarter you, they takes, they bring these guys and they come and then they get an event where their athletes can't perform or do perform and aren't rewarded or, in the alternative, don't know what to do. So I mean that speaks volumes about the organization but, more importantly, the sport. But, tj, I didn't mean to step on you no worries.
Speaker 4:No, I mean, yeah, it was, it was a, it was a big change from the morning to the afternoon, like it's. Like it's almost unbearable. You're watching it go from I don't don't know which I prefer the morning or the afternoon, because once it started, it just nonstop and they had the speakers up so high.
Speaker 1:It was crazy.
Speaker 4:And sometimes you would hear it go off 12 times in a row across the three rings. I thought that was too loud. I mean especially in crucial moments. Maybe you think you kick and you score and it's from the ring next to you especially crucial moments maybe you think you kick and you score and it's from the ring next to you.
Speaker 4:It was, it was insane, it was insane. I, I don't know. I don't know, I just don't. I guess my question is if that was the case and and they don't made that decision at all, like, how do you continue to move forward and work with them? Where, like, the integrity has?
Speaker 3:to be lost correct. Well, two things I want to say. Like number one okay, if they, if they, screwed up and they put it up to 30, they should have left it like that the whole day, because the people that fought in the morning fought under different circumstances than the others. It just doesn't make any sense, I mean I don't think they would never do it yeah I know they would never do it, but for me.
Speaker 4:They got to replay those matches in the morning like the problem is everybody has all their national teams there and some of them won, some of them lost, so they're not going to go back and run them again. But that's just, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Well, at the very least you've got to leave the playing field. What it is? Well, that's what I thought. Yeah, in soccer they get a referee and they put him in the middle and he's there for 90 minutes. They change the referee in the next game, but they don't change the referee in the half.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:It's got to be the same You've Now. I mean here's a. I mean we'll talk about the blame game in a minute, but here's a better question, or a good question at least not better is in the morning, when they pushed it up and there were only 16 points made, were the points valid points or were they mystery points? Were they based on you needed?
Speaker 3:more power. So was it a power thing? It was a little bit of both, to TJ's credit, a couple of seconds ago, like like yeah, I don't know which one I liked better. I mean, listen, if it's hard to score, it's hard to score. Then you can kind of take more chances. But like nobody knew what was going on, it was just so weird we couldn't figure it out. Then all of a sudden afternoon it just all of a sudden, literally they say go, it goes. You just hear, like, hear, like TJ said it was fire. People are laughing, laughing in the stands because athletes are looking around.
Speaker 3:And you know, for me, you know, tj, you asked the question how can you work with them? Ethically? You can't work with them. I mean, first of all, their product doesn't work. Second of all, it doesn't work, it doesn't work, we of all. It doesn't work, it doesn't work. We're on generation three and it's gotten worse and worse and worse. I mean I haven't met any person that says I like Gen 3. I haven't seen any person go. Please give it to me, like nobody. So I mean because, kp&p, you can have a debate, but no one has told me this is the system, is what we need to go with. So number one they did it on their own. They changed it in the middle of the day or the middle of a term, without notifying the wt people. That's unethical. Two your product is is not working. I I've heard through the grapevine that they're going to give them a a finite time to fix this. You know, uh, whether it's a month or two months and they're going to make a decision to pull it or not pull it?
Speaker 4:I guess my question is what You're right.
Speaker 3:No, TJ, I agree with you. There's two systems right now there's KP&P and there's Weichamp that both work fine and when going into a world championship, we can't play on that system, we can't fight on that system.
Speaker 4:It. We can't play on that system, we can't fight on that system, it's just. It's just, it's just disheartening, like and again. I know that in the afternoon the points start going crazy, but I'm watching matches where one guy's dominated the whole route and controlled it to the point where it's like they're up five, oh, which is not big in our sport anymore, and I understand that. But because of the sensitivity of the chess card, like you see someone throw a whiffle of a back kick and it like misses the body, and now this person technically has advantage and they're up there, they're leading with no time left. So that that's a problem. You, you can't that. I saw a lot of that type of stuff and people were just I remember one tournament or back before it was just the whole let's get close game and it was a lot of that. I mean, I'm watching stuff this way, this way, this way, that way, that way, and it's going crazy, you know.
Speaker 3:So for us, for the coaches, it was so difficult to keep track of all the scores because there would be an exchange and, like I said, five points would go up. We were having a card to say technical error with phantom points because things were just flying past people and four points would be up, or five points, and it's 10 to 2. And all of a sudden it's it's 11 to 10. The other guy, like you don't even, you don't even know what to ask the ref, or it was, it was really really bad. Um, you know, I, I will say this. I mean, and I don't even want to, I shouldn't even say this because I'm I'm making an excuse here. You know one of the things I talked to our brazilian athletes. I said it's very hard to judge your performance because the system was so different.
Speaker 3:I will say, the people that won the Alessio from Italy, he won men's heavy CJ, won 80. We can talk about that in a second. These two girls that I saw, well, three from Spain, from China, from Brazil, all these people. They were fighting under the same situation, the same dynamics, the same sensitivity and they found a way to win. That's kind of like maybe they're outliers. It doesn't really. I don't want to, like I said, give these guys an excuse because, herb, you know, if you've got two world-class people, give these guys an excuse because, herb, you know, if you've got two world-class people, there's no way on a normal system. Tj, you notice that someone's getting point-gapped point-gapped in two rounds In a finals. No way, it was ridiculous. These people are two good quality fighters and one guy's getting beat by 15. Who was it? It happened a lot. It happened a lot, I mean it happened a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not just like there was people in the finals, like these two guys are fighting amazing all day and all of a sudden points are just going up weird. And these guys are looking around like what can I do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but as a fighter, you guys know you go in and you, before you go, you prepare, you visualize what you're going to do, you do your game and in most cases the only adjustment we had to make at least you and I was to the referee that was in the ring so you could tell what the referee was scoring or the judges were scoring. At the end of the round you'd look at the scoreboard and figure out what worked, what didn't work. Scoring at the end of the round, you'd look at the scoreboard and figure out what worked, what didn't work. Now you have a situation where the athletes are trying to adjust to an electronic system which takes a few minutes, and then that's the reason that you don't change it midstream, because they can look at matches and see what's working and then adjust after for their next match, their first match. They're kind of at a disadvantage, especially when it's happening, like you know, in the moment, right, so so um it's funny they're talking about like some.
Speaker 3:Some guy, a canadian guy, took the socks and and he put them like this and it's a, it picked it up. The magnets were so strong there's more magnets in this and this new gen 3 sock but they're so strong that they you can hold them together and it just they stick. I mean it was, yeah, the gen 2 socks, the gen 1 socks never did that, because they're so strong that you can hold them together and they stick. I mean it was crazy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the Gen 2 socks, the Gen 1 socks never did that because they're always in the same bag. They fall out of the never that. I watch Mark kind of go like this and it picks up the other socks. So I don't know if it was an oversight, I don't know if they changed the manufacturers they worked with to get the magnets or what case. So not only did they add more magnets, they added stronger magnets. I I don't know. I mean, and again, I I don't know if that's an oversight or an accident, but that has to do with the way that the hokus were scoring, like I mean, it was crazy, you got, if you would have seen. I mean, there's kicks like this far out and they're scoring every now and then it'll show its face. But this was the entire rest of the tournament after the morning session on the first day.
Speaker 2:It was nuts so what's the solution? If it's not, this is me personally. Who is this? Is this day, dado? Who is this?
Speaker 4:true score dado, yeah, I don't know, man, it's wonky dude, it's just wonky I. I, me personally, I would go with one system. I don't care, I don't like the double system, I don't like changing system, I don't like adjusting. Just give everybody one system and go from there, period, point, blank and simple, and I think that'll keep. I think at least it'll keep it fair or fair or consistent or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 3:And you know, tj, I'm on the opposite end of that spectrum. I mean, I believe in the competitive, but I'm going to go with you on this one Until they get this shit figured out, they gotta have one system, just one system. So it's, it's, it's even across the board. But and if another system can come and basically be the same system but from another company, then we're okay. For example, I got a basketball, right, I have a spalding basketball or a wilson basketball. It's the same freaking ball. We have a little different texture, but it bounces the same. It's the same measurements.
Speaker 3:That's not, you know, we can't say that in taekwondo. So, um, and I know I've used, I've used the things like well, in tennis you have different things, different. You have grass courts and clay courts, it's in hard courts, but we're not, we're not that kind of, we're not a ball sport, right, we're a combative sport. That would be like asking boxers to say you know, you have this kind of glove or this kind of ring or this kind of shape, or you know, no, you wouldn't do that. So I agree with you. We probably should just go down to one and make that shit work right, because it doesn't.
Speaker 4:It doesn't. It's just you know, like, because you hit it the same time 10 times and six out of those times will be it'll score, another four won't score. You get in the same spot, same speed, same pressure, everything. So it's always a little unpredictable. So it makes it even more unpredictable for me and my brain when you add we're going to fight this system here, we're going to fight that system there. And I think from a.
Speaker 3:The sock is different. Mm-hmm, the sock is different.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think from a, I guess community, bringing everyone together and making it a system that potentially, at some point, everyone can afford, like the South American countries, all these people, it should be one, because you come out with Gen 1, gen 2, gen 3, this, this, this. No one's keeping up with that shit.
Speaker 3:That's impossible. It's impossible and from a financial standpoint it's impossible. I mean, like you said, south American countries, african countries, some of the East Asian countries can't do it either. Heck Americans. I mean it's expensive stuff. The socks are 110 bucks, young 110 bucks for the socks. So it's for a kid that's going to outgrow them. They rip the, the magnets move. I mean I get, I know hockey and other sports are expensive, but 110 bucks for Taekwondo socks.
Speaker 4:How much were the Gen 2? They weren't 110, were they? I don't remember.
Speaker 3:I got a technical question because remember when we had we went from Gen 1 to Gen 2, sometimes you'd be fighting on Gen 1 system and people said you can't use Gen 2 socks because they score too much. So Gen 3 socks, people that bought them. What happens if I go to the next tournament? I'm wearing Gen 3 socks, I have more magnets, stronger magnets. Fighting on a Gen 2 system at a domestic tournament.
Speaker 4:They made me take it off One of my kids. Somehow one of my kids ended up with a pair of Gen 3 socks and we got to the competition. They made her take them off. They wouldn't let her wear the Gen 3 with the Gen 2. So they shouldn't, I mean to be honest with you. With those things for sure you will score. Yeah, for sure In comparison to the other person wearing Gen 2 too, you you would score again 1 billion points compared to them so, tj, what did you think?
Speaker 3:I mean the tournament was a mess. I mean, obviously the results were pretty interesting. I mean, at korea, um, korea had a couple medals. Um, italy had a couple medals, spain had a couple medals, kazan had a couple medals, the united states had three medals. Um, I mean, listen, uh, cj was, was good. I mean he, he fought strong, he had big leads early, his final was close with the korean guy. Um, I think on regular hokus is a different fight, but um, he was, he was good. I mean, I have to say, like he, he watched the first day and he made some adjustments. He fought from a lot longer, used a lot of different angles, you know, relied on his big kicks, you know his four-point kicks and stuff.
Speaker 4:So, I mean I can't take it. A lot of double kick stuff was almost great in this situation, because we were talking about like once it opens and you're putting two and three together before the other person's putting their foot down, like it'll score. On that system you're going to score every single time, almost you know. So yeah, I think he fought great. I mean he fought great and he fought some people and he kind of showed a difference between those people. Like you said, the final was close but still he's scoring, scoring and pushing the action. I mean he definitely did a great job on that.
Speaker 3:I'd say the first match of the day. He fought this Russian kid and this Russian kid came out 8-0. I'm like, because these guys know how to score. The problem was that system was so light, like you said, tj, it let people back in the match and then CJ's physicality kind of overran the kid, but the kid was. I mean I would be really interested to watch that match on KPMP. But again, we can say that about a lot of things. But I mean I can throw some critiques out there and I can give credit where credit's due. And CJ was good.
Speaker 3:He fought well the other two Americans, christina Ticho she made weight, which I was really shocked, and she gutted through some matches that she lost the first round and somehow she got through and she ended up losing in the semifinal and got a bronze medal. Because they fought for this one. Young, if you got to the semifinal, the two semifinal losers had to fight off for the bronze. She came back and had a close match and she did the same thing very tight three rounds and beat the Croatian girl. So that was good for her. And Faith Dillon, the 57 girl. She lost to our girl from Brazil in the semifinal. Our girl won gold medal on the first day, but Faith was pretty solid. I think she did a she had a good event.
Speaker 4:For me, she's always well put together. You know she goes out and she kind of puts the game together and does what she has to do most of the time, so she definitely had a good day as well.
Speaker 3:I think she's probably one of the few athletes that are very even keeled Like she has. She doesn't have too many highs and too many lows. I mean, she's pretty solid, even when she loses. You don't see her lose by a lot, you don't see her getting overwhelmed too much. It's just nah, the guy, the female scored more points. You know where with CJ and Christina. You see some big dips in you know valleys, some greatness.
Speaker 3:But there was this Russian little girl 49 kilos, 49 kilos. So let's just say height equivalency. Let's say I'm an average 49. This girl I'm not lying was this little and every match she was like this much shorter people. But she was like she could defend. She was sidekicking these chicks in the face Like nobody understood what she was doing. And for a little person she could get her leg over their leg with a front leg axe kick. Normally what happens is when people put a front leg axe kick, someone picks their leg up underneath it and defends and it usually knocks the smaller person over. You get a deduction, the other person gets a point oh, she was so strong, like she would get there, she could keep her balance. She lost a close semi-final fight and then I'm getting a bronze, but she was. She was awesome to watch it was. It was like a win for the small people it was pretty pretty impressive.
Speaker 2:I think that's all. I think that's always. There was a kid out of Korea. His name was Ham June and he he had one tournament, I think he went to the. He was from Chede and I remember watching him train and he was tiny. I mean he was compared to the, you know, myung Shik and those guys you, myung Shik, and these guys were all like your size, almost six foot. This kid had to be five foot two, five foot three, but he was such a unique athlete in that he understood how to use his smallness, his compactness, first of all for low center of gravity, second of all for understanding how to get under people and third, for just being to be honest, smaller people are just faster, like they. Just they have less distance to travel from their leg to the target. They they're just faster and their twitch is usually better, depending on the, on the smaller athletes. So I always like to watch those games because you know I was a smaller middleweight. I would, you know I wasn't a tall middleweight and I was fighting gigantic.
Speaker 4:You know, seven foot, six foot three, six foot five guys showed up with a lot of little heavyweights. Did you see that? I don't know. One kid was 68 to 80 and now he's plus 80, but both of them were little oh really that dude was 58 at one point. Uh-huh, early on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so they got this kid that went from 58 to 68 to under 80, and now he's fighting heavyweight. But like it's cool, it's interesting. But the other guy that was with them was damn near the same height. It was kind of a strange thing. It's kind of a strange thing.
Speaker 3:And then their little people were tall, yeah right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4:I know, I know I have a question Before we go. What do you think about this new Gamjon thing, this one where if you get to the ring late, they give you a Gamjon.
Speaker 3:and now, like, isn't that just silly, like aren't we going too far at this point, young? So they made this new rule that like, if you're, then they can give you a come done. First of all, it's subjective, because they only gave one, all right. But it's kind of like listen, I kind of get it if people are sitting in the chair for extra 20, 30 seconds. But, like my thing about time breaks, you got to walk to your corner and sit down. I'm going to say it takes two seconds, three seconds, right, and I think we should get not me, we should get the whole minute, and when it they should have to get up and go out. But they're saying 10 seconds before they're going, chung hung, making them come out, and if you're not fast enough, they give you a deduction.
Speaker 4:And they decide that you're not fast enough Because I've seen some people that come out a little late. The referee just turned around one time, turned around again and it was no problem. Then you see someone give them a g john and I guess it didn't dawn on me until later. I think I was talking about a coach, like that's a big thing with this five gum john per round rule. Now you're starting the round with four to give and for what?
Speaker 2:because I'm a little late like that. Well, think about the culture where it's coming from. So you know I've talked about this before one of the biggest problems culturally in taekwondo is that it comes from a place of Korean culture. Korean culture has never been on rewarding, it's been on punishing. So when you look at the games they play and everything else, they spend a whole lot of time designing systems and point scoring for negative behavior. So they don't figure out how to score points. They're teaching the referees everything they don't want them to do. They think the difference to fixing something is to spend time on what's not working.
Speaker 2:So you give warnings for falling, warnings for grabbing, warnings for being late to the ring. I mean, is this really the biggest problem in Taekwondo? And I've talked about this in basketball? Basketball, when you want to see better behavior, you reward it. You want to see less people under the basket, you create the three-point, that's it. You want to see better action, you reward that and that's how we came to the multi-tiered scoring. But it's good to see that the culture still prevails because obviously the most important thing in taekwondo is how your uniform fits, if you get to the ring on time, if you bow properly and you know, if you understand, how to act right.
Speaker 1:That's how you kick.
Speaker 3:I know you're being mocking me a little bit, but like the belt yeah, Nowadays your belt has to be all right size.
Speaker 4:It can't be below your. Yeah, it has to be like a little bit above your yes above your knees, but you're right as a fighter.
Speaker 2:Do you need? I mean, we could go. This is one of my favorite conversations. The taekwondo uniform, which was stolen from judo and karate, is not the best uniform for performance, to be frank. And if you understand that, then why are we wearing it during competition? Why are we wearing a belt during competition? Where is no? Is there anyone in the ring? That's not a black belt. Why are we wearing a belt and this is a performance enhancing thing as well like you have yeah, it's karate.
Speaker 2:If you, you want to remind people what they're watching, I get that, because right now, if you watch taekwondo, you have yeah, it's karate. If you, you want to remind people what they're watching, I get that, because right now, if you watch Taekwondo, you couldn't tell what it was. But you know you need a belt. Maybe you go oh, this must be some sort of martial art. They're wearing a black belt. Uh well, it doesn't look like a martial art, but they're wearing a black belt, so it must be a martial art. Is it karate? No, it's not jujitsu, because nobody's getting hurt. Oh, it must be that sissy fighting called olympic taekwondo.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, let me watch this for two seconds before I can hold on a second let me, let me, let me, let me change, let me watch it for a few seconds because I can go then watch something more interesting like curling, or you know, or uh, or somebody cutting their lawn or grass growing in my backyard, but but anyway, it's been a minute or two before.
Speaker 3:I got on that You're going to love this Herb. So we go to the technical meeting that TJ got yelled at, but so they always get yelled at.
Speaker 1:You are, mr Jamaica. You are, sit down and don't speak anymore. Where is your jacket and tie? And why you come here? Where's the coach? You're an athlete With that haircut. You must be an athlete, oh, you're not an athlete, let me see your credential. What he wasn't Korean, was it? Philippe, was it?
Speaker 2:Philippe, was it Philippe Bordeaux, the Bordeaux wine guy, the guy, the dumbest guy in Taekwondo? It was next to his friend Jay Warwick, the second dumbest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:Did I say both of those things out loud? I saw those two clowns sitting next to each other at the technical meeting. Jay just happy to be there so he doesn't have to be at home.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:Philippe hasn't found a plane ticket yet that he doesn't like. He must not like French food, but go ahead.
Speaker 3:That's funny. I'm going to go Now. I got to go back. So we go to the technical meeting and of course everybody kind of they get introduced and they all say a few things. And it's so funny because I mean no offense, but if you would have seen the crowd when mr warwick was speaking, like he's, he's making jokes about um, one of the, the vice chair of the techno director, is his lady and now she just got named to the games committee chair for the olympics, so she's gonna basically do all stuff and he's introducing and he's like so, um, she won't be having to buy her own beer today, because I'm sure a lot of people will be buying her beers, so they can.
Speaker 3:You know, it was just so often like everyone's like this, like, like nobody was like like he was, it was like he was talking to the good old boys club but nobody understood it, like it was so like off handed. You know it was just weird, candid, you know. I just it was just weird, but anyway. So we're talking about the, the rules, and they always start with like there are no new rules, because we had heard that there's new rules. There's no new rules, it's just our interpretation. So fast forward to.
Speaker 3:They're talking about punching young, and they said there's no punch with the front hand that they'll score. And so we're like. So I, I said I was like you know, I I don't really understand. Like, look at, first of all, I think people, they have to learn how to score a punch. But why, if I can punch with the backhand and I can kick with the back leg and punch kick with the front leg, why can't I punch with the front hand? Now, if you don't want to score it, that's fine. But they're like oh, we never score punch with the front hand where everyone in the place goes. Like what, yeah?
Speaker 1:What I mean they scored.
Speaker 3:Like people are freaking out. I'm like everyone's sitting there going what so they? They said that you can't punch with the front hand anymore. They won't score.
Speaker 1:And then they're like.
Speaker 2:Can you punch with it Like?
Speaker 1:are you going to get a?
Speaker 2:warning if you punch for it.
Speaker 4:No of deduction, but they're not supposed to score a front hand punch.
Speaker 2:Can I tell you something? If I punch you with my front hand, you'll pray to baby Jesus that I punched you with my back hand. If you hit somebody properly with a front hand, as you guys both know, it's worse because you're catching somebody in mid-technique usually, and the power and the impact of it you'd pray that somebody hit me with their backhand, but just the fact that they said we're not we don't score it anyway, yeah.
Speaker 3:Again, shut your mouth and let people punch with the front hand and just don't score it. But they told us it's not a scoring technique. I'm like why is a front leg kicking then? Why can't I kick with the front leg? Tell me I can't kick with the front leg. Tell me I can't keep my front leg. It's not a scoring technique, it doesn't have enough power.
Speaker 3:I mean it was just such an absurd thing. I mean they have this rule that you can only, so you can do three kicks in the air. You can do three kicks on the body without putting it down. You do four, you get a deduction. But if I have a card and let's say I go like this okay, that should be nine points and I can video replay, but I can only ask for two. So I was like if I can I go, can I kick for three? They're like yes, I'm like. So if I kick you in the face three times, why can't I ask for those three points, which would be nine? They're like. I was like it's a good one. I'm like good one. It should be obvious. Like like, is that illegal?
Speaker 4:even, even with the front hand punch thing. My question was you're telling us, the coaches, that you're not going to score front hand punches and the referees are supposed to score front hand punches. And my question and my question was all right, we're in the finals, we're in the quarter finals, whatever, whatever, whatever round and quarterfinals, whatever round, and at the end of the round some guy goes front-hand punch and they tie 8-8, and this front-hand punch makes it 9-8. As a coach, can I card and be like, hey, they shouldn't score? The answer to my question was no, so I'm going wait. So you just said we can't score front-hand punches, you're not going to score them, but this guy, someone, could win a match by doing something. You said you're not going to score and I can't do anything about it, and it was oh well, you know, there's some things we can't do with the card. I'm like, well, that's dumb, because we've already we already interject with punches. You know what I mean is that when you got?
Speaker 4:is that when you got yelled at yeah, I was told you know before that but a little bit before that.
Speaker 4:Why do you always talk when people are talking? And I'm like, I look and I was like this is the first time I've said anything, and when I say anything I've said through so many meetings, I mean so many technical meetings. I've just sat in the back. I've never said anything. I've been respectful, I know my goddamn mouth and I say that he looks at me and goes why do you like to talk when people are talking? Who was it? Who? Who lost, like lost my mind? Um, what's his name? Who was the guy? What's his name?
Speaker 3:coach muhammad uh, muhammad shaban, he's the, he's a technical I wanted to lose my mind, I'm just like dude
Speaker 1:yeah, no no, no.
Speaker 3:So what happened was. What happened was the room was starting to get a little crazy and this one russian kid be like. The guy's like, hey, let let everyone. And so also we start getting in again. People are other people are kind of talking, and so TJ goes. But if the guy's like, he's like and TJ's behind me, I just feel TJ's rage going on. I know he's so pissed because I was like Bro, it's either that or it's not.
Speaker 4:Maybe you're you are.
Speaker 2:You are the only time he sees people in his country that look like you. They're serving him tea.
Speaker 4:Let me be clear it is what it is I'm like I've said so many fucking things. Never opened my mouth one time.
Speaker 2:Listen, I, I was, I was I was head of team and coach moreno was there as coach, I believe, and we're in a room and this is when they were talking about punching and they're talking about how they're going to score punching. So I raised my hand and I say do you understand that in the history of taekwondo up to now there hasn't been a point scored for punching in the history of the sport? So what you're saying is on your rule books there's a rule that says you can score punching, but there's not a man in the world that does taekwondo that can punch hard enough to score points. So we're all a bunch of sissies. What you're saying is we black belts and black belts that teach it a ninth degree black belts can't teach or execute a proper punch enough. Meanwhile I've personally punched guys in the chest where they had to pull my hand out of his chest. They don't score. The guy's laying on the floor and they don't count. He can't breathe, but that's not a point.
Speaker 3:So punching has become a big part of the sport, unfortunately. Bad punches, bad punches, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:They're not punches. Can we go to?
Speaker 3:this tournament. Can we go to this tournament, Guys?
Speaker 2:there's some good ones. They're bitch slaps.
Speaker 4:They're bitch slaps. No, some of them are good. It's not that Some of them are pretty heavy landed punches, but like they don't score anything. And then it's crazy, because then you get to the semis and the finals, where everybody's watching one ring and the crowds are louder, and now all of a sudden we're scoring punches. You know what I mean. And these are dictating the fight.
Speaker 3:And to TJ's point sure as shit, cj's fighting in the final with the Korea and the guy comes in front, hand punch point. So I said that to the technical director. I'm like no front hand punches, so just craziness on that.
Speaker 4:And this is the fact they say in the media, like our referees would never score a front hand punch Never. They would, they have never and will never. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, it's a silly thing.
Speaker 4:It's a silly thing, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Overall, like it was, there was some. There was some good young people there, young that came out. That's what these Grand Prix channels are supposed to be for. They're supposed to. They're a pseudo-open. It's not 100% open, but you get a lot of people Like Russia brought people that I had never seen before. China and Taipei brought a bunch of young ones and some were good and some weren't good. I mean, I think overall, in the United States we had some people that shouldn't have been there, but I think there was a couple other countries that probably had some of those.
Speaker 2:You mean people other than staff, like you're not talking about the staff, no, no, I was talking about athletes.
Speaker 3:I mean there's athletes that probably weren't ready for that level. Now you want to go on that staffing. I mean, I always got a pet peeve because I believe that some of these athletes should be compensated and helped with stuff. And there was some situations where there was training set for a certain time in a certain place. Athletes were told they go there and no one's there, the staff's not there, no one's there and these kids are just sitting there by themselves.
Speaker 3:You know, I have a problem when I see, you know, people on the floor. They're taking pictures or commentating at the the the end of the night in the finals and doing nothing else. But you, you know they got their way, paid for their hotel, paid for their food, paid for and who knows whatever else. Meanwhile you have national team athletes that had to put their own bill. You know, um, pay their own airfare, hotel and food and blah, blah, blah, and it's kind of bs man. It's the same old, you know. I know you get on it a lot. You know talking about people with uh, you know flights and stuff like that. But in these kind of cases, when I see those people there, it bothers me it bothers me.
Speaker 2:Listen, the Olympic Committee. You know one of my favorite presidents and other people. They had two sayings and they were great sayings. So if you're going to serve an organization as a volunteer and this was John Ruger, who was the athletes ombudsman he said ask yourself one question when you choose to serve or you're asking for a position, does the organization benefit more than you or do you benefit more? And he says if it's the first, then you should do it. If it's a second, you shouldn't, and then the other, that's a great one. Right, that's the way you should look at service. The second one and you have something to offer and you're going to add value, add value. My son's school, my daughter's school. I volunteered. They put me on a committee where I have nothing to value, and so at the end of the year I said thank you for this opportunity. This is not where I can benefit the school the most. I didn't get any benefit, but by the same token, I didn't add any value, so let somebody else do the job In. The second one was Sandy Baldwin, who was the president of USOC, and she said to me we have board members who have never met a plane ticket they didn't like, and that was classic, right? You have a lot of people in the organization, both in USA Taekwondo and at the WT or whatever it's called these days, that haven't met a plane ticket they didn't like. So most of them are bored in their life. They don't like what's going on, they don't add any value, but as soon as that plane ticket shows up, it becomes a value.
Speaker 2:I pride myself on one thing I don't take plane tickets. I don't need trips. I've been. On one thing I don't take plane tickets. I don't need trips. I've been to enough countries. If somebody sends me a plane ticket, it's because I add value and I'm going there to help. And if they need me to help, I come to help. Now, by the same token, if I don't think I can help like I was called to help the New York bid when we were bidding for the Olympics, I was called to help the San Francisco bid. I and we were bidding for the Olympics. I was called to help the San Francisco bid. I went to Singapore to help the New York bid. When I went there, I was called by Dr Schiller and they asked me to come. And I went because I added value. And if I couldn't add value, then I don't need to go to Singapore. You can do everything you want to do in Singapore in a day but it's a long trip.
Speaker 3:Now that you bring this up, it's funny because I'm picking on a little nitpicking, but like, even there's a, there's a media guy. He's from mexico, he's a national team athlete but his name is chava perez and he has a very he he's. He does a lot of uh broadcasting, he has a podcast, he's been around everywhere, right tj, he's at world championships, he's everywhere. Supposedly he requested um a credential media, credential for for this event. And again, I don't know all the details, but what I know is he got denied by W2 and USAT and I was like that's shame on them. But then meanwhile they had this I don't think the venue was that good for a Grand Prix challenge.
Speaker 3:I didn't think it was. It wasn't sexy enough. They just did the bare minimum stuff. But so we have these bleacher seating that were hard as hell. But in the middle of that, they have this big section off for the VIPs and they got cushions on the seats. And you know, I'm sitting there on the outside like everybody else and, lo and behold, I see a bunch of people come in with credentials. Now, it was hard to get credentials, but I don't know where these people got credentials. They were there. They're americans, they're asian americans and here they come filing all lined up, and so I'm like how do these guys get that stuff when maybe other people that should? You know? We talked about it earlier. Someone was like they could have easily asked the olympians to come, they could have easier to try to like. Hey, this is our showcase to the world. Yeah, right, because I know when I go to check the answer.
Speaker 2:I keep checking my text messages. I get more respect outside my sport than I do inside my sport. Usa Taekwondo has convenient amnesia. They forgot who built the sport and what athletes fought to win and what athletes fought to do what they do. And they keep ignoring us because they're afraid of us, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:But the ones that are quiet and complicit I don't want to mention any names lynette, love, sharon, jewel uh, did I say those out loud? They, they bring those docile ones in because they're they go along with the program. They're like what can I do, boss? Where do I go? Where do you want me to sit? Oh, yeah, I'm an olymp. Oh, wait a minute. You want to honor these guys who haven't done anything other than go to the Olympics? Oh, show me where they are. Oh, that's a nice fur jacket you're wearing, mr, whatever your name is. Oh, what did you do at the last Olympics? Oh, you showed up. Oh, congratulations. Well, I actually won, and in Sharon's case, I think she was a bronze medalist. By the way, lynette was a gold medalist, but let's, let's count down to the future.
Speaker 3:That hasn't done anything none of them were there. And again, I mean, I'm not, I'm not even saying it from a personal level on you, but they just I don't know, maybe they were asked, maybe they weren't. I just I, again, I just, when these things happen in our country, like look, you guys got money to do all this other stuff, but you can't make the place, look you, you can, can hate or love him, and you can hate and love him in different and equal parts.
Speaker 2:But one of the things I will say is this you know, sang Lee taught me a few things and also taught me a lot of things not to do, but one of the things that he did say which was true he says how you treat your juniors, how you treat your seniors, is how your juniors will treat you. So the way you treat your parents is the way your children will teach you how you treat your seniors in Taekwondo. So good, on USA Taekwondo, they've got the dumbest and the dumber in the room, the guys who haven't done anything and even the guys who have been to the dance. I won't mention his name. You know he got knocked down and got a bronze medal in some tournaments, so that's what you honor and respect. I guess what? Because they kowtow and fetch it. I mean, I don't know. I mean what? What happened to the here's? The better question. May he rest in peace.
Speaker 2:What would they? What did they do with jimmy kim? Now, they loved jimmy. There wasn't a person in the world didn't love jim Jimmy, except USA Taekwondo. Jimmy Kim was loved by all. Jimmy Kim, great athlete, jimmy Kim. Gold medalist, jimmy Kim, successful heavyweight, most successful heavyweight. What did they do with Jimmy?
Speaker 2:So why would we expect anything different from us? Yeah, so it is. And and let me say it now, so it's been said a lot of times in life the people who exclude you from the room exclude you to cast shade because they know if you come in you're gonna diminish their value. If you're in a room, moreno or tj or anyone else, you diminish their value. Who's listening to sherman, whatever his last name is today? Who's listening to jay poos? Who's listening to Sherman, whatever his last name is today? Who's listening to Jay Poos? Who's listening to, to be honest, jay Warwick? Nobody's listening to these guys if different people in the room.
Speaker 2:So what you do? You close the door. I don't close the door in my life, I open the door. I want the biggest and the best and the brightest in my life, because through that affiliation, through the closest, through proximity, comes knowledge, and some people would say power. I say knowledge. So in that situation I get why they're afraid. You should be afraid. You're dumber than a rock. You should be afraid You've messed up the sport. Be afraid, but that's up to you, your loss? What was the last Olympic tournament results? How's that going for you? So you know, keep doing what you're doing, because you're perfectly engineered for the lack of success you're currently experiencing.
Speaker 3:CJ, did you see that clip of that Korean kid 58 Korean kid fighting with a Turkish kid? What did you think about?
Speaker 4:that, first of all, I don't like everybody hyping it up. I think it's a little silly and it's a little overdrawn. But also, if you watch the video, you watch the video. It was a Turkish kid. Right, it was Turkey.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this kid, like again it's going on, something's happening. He's trying to point across the room to tell the referee to stop. The referee doesn't stop. They go out of the ring, throws one more kick and like hits him in the butt. But if you watch the video, that when the korean boy turns around, he puts his hand up like, oh, my bad, watch the video. He tries to like diffuse the situation and then this kid goes on to score a bunch of points blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Who cares? The kid's great, the kids, the kid's good. You know what I mean? He's going, he's a world champ. He scores a bunch of body points and it was like oh, this other kid's so disrespectful, yada. And I'm going. My problem with that is I'm going to say if the roles were reversed and you switched it around and it'd be like oh, you know, this kid was trying to be respectful. He didn't see him say this blah, blah, blah. But like it's a fighting sport. Let them do what they got to do, but don't say this kid's disrespectful.
Speaker 3:So, Young, what happened? You hear what happened. The guy went out of bounds like he's fighting and he literally like, like, like, kicks a little bit.
Speaker 3:A little tap in the butt and then the Korean kid like kind of jumped and he kind of got in the face and TJ's right when he did it he went like this and they kind of got face to face and, like you said, the guy goes and beats him pretty bad, but TJ is like down on his like hands and knees, you know, kind of like squinting out, and the korean kid came over and put his like arm like on, like a shoulder, like that, and the turkish kid was like pushed him off, like like get away from me.
Speaker 3:And I was kind of like I actually like I think we need a little bit of that kind of stuff in the sport, you know. I mean I mean if they got a little rivalry, let it be a rivalry, you know, let them, let them, let them go and duke it out. But like the turkish kid didn't want any part of it. Like after he just got whooped you this guy coming over, and I had to kind of big boy him like hey, good, you know it was okay. And he was like get off me. And I was like oh so he kind of kept it going.
Speaker 3:You know afterwards, but I thought that was pretty funny. Did you ever do that?
Speaker 2:though I mean when we were fighting. I can remember beating guys pretty bad and I never went over and tapped him on the show. I, I always respected my fighter in the sense of, like it's a match, I'll shake your hand, I'll put my hand on your back as I'm walking by, but I'm not going to treat you like a child where you're a great competitor and I. I was fortunate enough to have a good day today and you know, I I never took it. I never took it. I didn't really I mean internally, I took it personally, all of it, but I never demonstrated. You know, you'd be hard pressed to find a match and you watch me fight. Where I celebrated or I complained, I didn't really do anything. I just let the, let the ref be the match, and that was something I learned from you from all that talking you do.
Speaker 3:now, it's true, yeah, you know, I, I mean I, I can say that when you won you were like, going like this, and when you lost lost, you were you. Just, you know, and I know you had some, I know you had some people you didn't like. And so now that you say that you saved up all that energy to talk now, yeah, oh yeah, and now that's why I'm talking back.
Speaker 2:Then I would just bow, leave the ring, come in, go out. Man, he's really mean, I'm like, no, I'm just, I got business to do.
Speaker 3:man, that was awesome. But you know what, truth to be told, not many people did kind of crazy fears and stuff like that. Everyone's a little bit more stoic. There wasn't too many people jumping around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I think there were a handful of. I think it started to change like guys celebrating like well, I didn't even do that, like you'd see guys celebrate points, right, they'd raise their hand when they scored. I never did that even. I just fought. I was like too busy fighting to like do all of that. And I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just like it just wasn't my, you know, I mean my son's kind of like that when he plays soccer he scores a goal, he just walks out, doesn't he does, he just goes back to the line right, doesn't run over and slide doesn't do the dance, you know whatever so, tj, let's talk about a little bit about the uh, the camp that we're having right now oh yeah, so we've been.
Speaker 4:We've been, I mean, we've been going since monday, right, two, one on monday and then two almost every day since um, I've, I you know what this has been a it's a good feeling for me to have this many people in the gym this early and like being able to kind of make these guys comfortable.
Speaker 4:And I mean, I think everyone's been training hard. But I saw this post earlier today about like collaboration and competition and how, if you unravel competition, the real, it's really collaboration, because you want to work with people, you want to be in a room with people who challenge you, people who who are, you know, just as tough as you, just as skilled, even more skilled than you. And I think we've, this week, we've done a great job of putting a good group of people together and I think we've done some, some great things. We did some match fights yesterday which were awesome, and I wish the grand master of disaster would show up to one of one of these workouts, cause you'll see, once, once the coaches get everybody wrangled in and we kind of let them understand, like what the, the, the purpose of the training is, and you know what, why we're doing what we're doing and what the you know how we're fighting and how you'll see some good taekwondo, you'll see some good work, you'll see some energy. You'll I mean you.
Speaker 2:so my, my, my email, my email address for the tickets to put the plane tickets are yeah. Yeah, I remember that thing I said about tickets. So if you want me to come to North Carolina, I'm more than willing to come. I know you have too much Taekwondo knowledge, you don't need me to do a seminar, but if you want to send that free plane ticket, let me know and just do it on United.
Speaker 3:So.
Speaker 2:I can upgrade.
Speaker 3:But you know, young, I mean really this. I kind of coordinated it. Of course, tj was able to host it, but like it started with brazil's, they were like, hey, we're going to be here, can we, can we stay for a camp? And so when tj's business came together, it was like it was like kind of like a perfect storm, and then we literally handpicked people to come, and you know what I mean. Talk about collaboration. Last night, when I was coming home with the guys that we went and had some some korean food and I said you know, there's got to be a way to do this more often. I mean, you just, the coaches are all hands-on, we're all there, no one's talking over anybody, the athletes are all like.
Speaker 2:I mean, we set the tone early I said I wasn't there, so nobody was talking over anybody.
Speaker 3:That's why I'm talking about the people that were there. You know nobody. I. I talked to everyone. I said listen, I didn't really want a high intensity. I wanted to be kind of a learning training environment and watching these people do we're doing, we're not kicking too many targets, everything is body drills and kind of situation drills and here's how you can score points and just to see them work with each other. I mean it's been really fun for me. This is what, exactly what I envision when I think about development. And there was, there's some kids that have been to work. We have an olympian there. I mean, we have some good, you know, quality people and we have some, some scrappers, some people that haven't been you recreated.
Speaker 2:So I mean one of the things that I liked about what you've done over your lifetime and and it's and it's generated energy down through your juniors and colleagues. You know, when we started together back in the day and we did those camps together, one of the things you'll notice in those camps were we taught sessions. We each taught sessions or we learned from each other. So I sit quietly. We had Pedro Xavier there, we had Christine Banya Rodriguez, so we let them teach, we watched them fight. So I sit quietly. We had Pedro Xavier there, we had Christine Banya Rodriguez, so we let them teach, we watched them fight. They fought with us. There's videotapes of us fighting all those cats and you.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that I think that we were always good at is we were willing to learn from anyone. We went and learned from the best in Korea back then. We went to other countries and watched them train. We trained in other countries. We went to chinese, taipei, we went around and we we were always in the room willing to learn and give people time and listen and just be quiet to listen, and I think that is speaks volumes to your credit and and it you know I'm not blowing any smoke up.
Speaker 2:Your sunday skirt that you wear when nobody else is watching but the the sorry. Sorry, I didn't want to out you, so it goes with that tj shirt. Jamaica man, calm down, baby, hold on, hold on. So that's good, that's. That's gonna have to rate the. We're gonna have to rate the youtube. Hold on, calm down, baby. So one of the things that I think that you've always done is you've reincarnated your method, your training method, but, more importantly, your training dynamic. So you created a performance model that encourages participation and encourages inclusion, and when you do that, you open the doors to that, you open the doors to new ideas, you open the doors to innovation and you open the door to creative energies that come through cognitive dissidence. And that's when two different waves come together and what they create is something new, better and bigger or different, and we talked a lot about this with Leon Preston in our thing, something we're working on, and I think you've done a great job of that.
Speaker 1:So like yeah, I'd love to be in the room to watch you guys do what you do you would, you would enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have much to add to that conversation. I might. I'm still like, even with my guys, when I'm preparing my guys. Now the nationals, I think, are somewhere down here, so a couple of my kids are going to go and fight and so I don't train them in what you guys are doing. You come in, coach, and you train them. I train them on what I do.
Speaker 2:I'm like here's basic strategy, here's basic motion, here's what you have to do in order to be effective without telegraphing and everything like that, but to be in a room where everything else is happening and understand it, because I think that's where creativity comes. And I don't, you know, I you hear me talk a lot about soccer and I have a lot of conversations with my son about soccer because he's doing soccer. I got to tell you something Right now. What I'm talking about applies to soccer too. Soccer is not that hard. Soccer is hard as a sport, but strategy-wise soccer is about intention, explosiveness, deception. That's it. You get the ball explosive. You get the ball moving without a telegraph. You get the ball, you tele. The ball moving without a telegraph. You get the ball you telegraph or you faint in order to get by somebody. That's it now. That doesn't change whether it's taekwondo, it's in basketball. You take the ball, you look this way, you pass the ball this way, you act this way, you dip your shoulder, you go another way. So every sport, the fundamental tenets of strategy are present. The mechanism of the sport changes it. Now the front hand punch. I mean it would be interesting.
Speaker 2:The dumbest committee I ever served on in my entire life was the world taekwondo federation technical committee. It I don't think there were dumber people in the room, with the exception of two dr, dr Kaepner and I. We had to hold their hands and explain to them what to score, why and how and why they shouldn't be certain things. And the second dumbest guy in the room for a bright guy was Yang Jin-bong.
Speaker 2:This idiot couldn't understand the dynamic between pushing and holding. And it's really not that hard. You get two kids in a schoolyard let one push, the other one's going to hold. Let one hold, the other one's going to push. It's a yin and a yang thing and especially since he comes from an Asian culture, you'd think he'd understand it. But you get the technical community. That's why I laugh at the guy yelling at you. That's a guy that doesn't understand taekwondo. That's not a high level competitor. That's some guy that learned, watered down taekwondo in some back ass, back water country where he probably wore a karate uniform and did the did the pyungan forms from shotokan as taekwondo this guy's a little younger, he fought so.
Speaker 4:But I mean, but for me, yeah, he did that's irrelevant, but that's why he yelled at you, because he thought you were better. It's just a respect thing.
Speaker 1:I cannot respect to you with that Jamaica t-shirt.
Speaker 3:No, but you got off on a tangent. I was talking about the camp itself.
Speaker 2:Of course I got off on a tangent. This is the Warehouse 15. Where's your clock, TJ?
Speaker 1:I got one in my office.
Speaker 4:I'm going to put one in my office for you.
Speaker 2:I got one last thing and I won't stop talking. How did you get Ice to let you in that room do a podcast? That's all I want to know. They usually only give you a phone call, and when are?
Speaker 1:you getting on the plane.
Speaker 2:Don't send them to my house. My last name is Perez. I'll show them a passport. They'll still put me on a plane. What are you laughing about, Marano?
Speaker 4:You, next I go.
Speaker 2:You're going too. I'm going to go get my friend, get Juan Moreno.
Speaker 3:I got my passport. You think I'm going to go get my friend, get Juan Moreno.
Speaker 4:I got my passport. You think I'm joking. I think that's the coolest thing about this weekend. It was like kind of preaching intention, like intention and training intention and purpose intention and the drills more so. And I think sometimes, in this grand scheme of things where I think a lot of the world has glorified the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and everybody's like oh my. God, that's so amazing and I'm like that's where.
Speaker 3:I was going with this. Yeah, they go, no, no go get it.
Speaker 4:You know we've glorified this like go fast kick card. I come from an era where we went fast and we kicked hard and we did all this stuff. But also we did a lot of slow training, a lot of like purposeful Put your foot here, land this way, stand this way, Recover this way and I think I enjoyed these last couple of days so far. I think I spent a lot of time in my gym with my guys doing those kind of things, trying to listen. We got to do it at half speed before we can do it at full speed. We got to do it in the gym and be successful. We can go and do it out of the gym and like I think that was the thing that we were able to kind of come together and work towards, like the intention of everything that we do.
Speaker 3:And it was young, it was what was nice is like again in this day and age. Everybody puts stuff on social media. They're jumping off boxes, they're doing this, Everyone's trying to do this fancy stuff that's going to maybe make you more physical, but when it comes down to and you were a pit of me of this scoring points when they need to be scored at the right time, the right moment, blah, blah, blah, and I think this was what we did here. And you had a Brazilian input, you had TJ's input, you had my input, you had different ideas and nothing was fast, Nothing was hard, there was nothing groundbreaking where you were like I never thought about jumping off a box and moving forward and going that way.
Speaker 3:It was a time to learn, it was a time to exchange, and that's I told what I say, TJ. I said I want this to be low intensity, with a lot of interaction, and that's exactly what we've had and that's where I was going with this with with you. I think you would have appreciated seeing these coaches give their idea and like sometimes a guy would explain it and then I would say are you, do you want like this? He's, Do you want it like this? He said, yes, they missed this detail. And then TJ would go and show what the hell is that.
Speaker 2:That's my lighter. It's electric. Why do you get distracted?
Speaker 1:Woogie, woogie, woogie.
Speaker 4:That's like the black man he's trying to make you forget what you said so he can talk some more.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. I'm hearing what he's saying I appreciate what I'm hearing. I'm hearing what he's saying.
Speaker 3:I'm not. I just said it was a great camp, hey. And guess what? Oh my God.
Speaker 4:There had to be one this episode, right, it couldn't have. I wish your audio works. I kind of like this song. Oh, it's a great song.
Speaker 1:You can't hear the audio.
Speaker 2:I hate when that happens. I hate when that happens. That's my other note to script.
Speaker 4:I've had a lot of help this week and like it's funny, I know you guys have known I've just gotten to this gym and I mean, like if I could, the epitome of a team effort is crazy. Like, if I could, the epitome of a team effort is crazy. Like I've had so much parent support, so much.
Speaker 4:How many members do you have now? I think I'm up to like 15, 16, which is not that bad. I've gotten some. I've actually been getting some good traction and people coming in. I got a couple first time people coming in. I got some people coming in for their second one.
Speaker 2:So we're moving, we're busting, we're going to figure out a way to promote what you're doing down there, and I just want to ask just one follow-up question Do they pay you in chicken and rice, or what do they pay you in? Are they paying you in dollars?
Speaker 4:Rice. Oh, those country people, I get it Gumbo gumbo gumbo, but no no On a serious note, hold on.
Speaker 2:I want to get you members, so I'm going to call upon those 15 members each play this podcast for them not the little kids, obviously and tell them just do me one favor, what's that? One? Bring one member. Bring one other member. One other member with more than 14, one other member, just one other member, and then you'll have 30 by the end of this podcast, by the end of this year's podcast, I want you to have 150 members.
Speaker 2:So if you do 15 to 30, 30 gets you to 60, 60 gets you to 120. So just one referral each. Tell me the name of. Tell me the name, how many, how many of those members do you know by name?
Speaker 4:All of them.
Speaker 2:Like 15, you should All right. Anyway, we got to get you some more members.
Speaker 4:We got to get you some more members, because obviously not hard enough, you got to open up.
Speaker 2:I opened with 60 when I opened my first school. You got to get out. Are you flyering? Are you going out there and doing the work?
Speaker 4:No, I'm just sitting in here, you're afraid to knock on doors down there.
Speaker 2:I know, listen. Get to knock on doors down there, I know, listen. Get some flyers. Get in your car, make sure you put a like a truce flag on it and then go and knock on some doors and introduce yourself. I and coach knows this when I opened my first school, I literally took flyers, I walked through the neighborhoods, put them on doors, knocked on doors and talked to people. I opened my first school with 60 pre-members, pre-signups, and within five months I had my year goal. Within one year I had my three-year goal and I ended before covid with 850 members. So you got to knock on those doors, tj.
Speaker 4:Get out, you look good yeah, no, we're doing, put a different t-shirt on.
Speaker 2:Put it. No, get out and knock on door. Get that t-shirt off. Put on a real shirt. Borrow one from moreno. He's got a nice sweater vest on, or something I'm about to travel.
Speaker 3:I'm about to travel.
Speaker 2:I'm about to get home. You travel, by the way, just so people know, you travel dressed more nicely and professionally than I go to, than I do to go to a meeting. I have never seen somebody. You, you comb your hair. You get nice cologne on. You got a nice shirt. Nice pair you got a nice shirt. Nice pair of pants they fit nice. You got nice shoes, nice socks, in case you take your shoes. Look at this. I thought you had one more practice you were going to.
Speaker 3:We do. It's at 3 o'clock. I'm about to go to it, man. Oh, all right, just checking.
Speaker 2:But anyway, if you guys ever want to invite or get a seminar from Coach Moreno, just make sure that if you put him in the Motel 6, it has an outlet for his hair dryer.
Speaker 3:It's true I need one. But hey, the people man, they were so nice. Like they had water for us, they had granola bars, juice vegetables. They provided a whole spread of food yesterday. Meat, chicken, pork, rice, fruit vegetables. They provided a whole spread of food yesterday. Meat, chicken, pork, rice, fruit vegetables.
Speaker 2:Was the chicken poached or fried? It was fried.
Speaker 4:It was fried, it was delicious. No, it wasn't fried, it was delicious.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it, coach Moreno. The team effort is huge. Watermelon.
Speaker 4:He's so stupid.
Speaker 1:You're great, I'm trying to be nice and you're trying to be stupid. He won't. Watermelon.
Speaker 4:He's so stupid.
Speaker 3:It's great. I'm trying to be nice and you're like trying to be. He won't let me he won't.
Speaker 4:let me just be nice. I can't just be nice. I'm going to end it with this, I appreciate the collaboration from, obviously, my my home parents and my home guys I work with. I appreciate the collaboration from all the other coaches, the willingness to stay here and work and allow us to work with their athletes.
Speaker 3:I mean, it makes me excited and excited for the future and hopefully I'll live up to this guy's legend. I'll have like nine thousand per year, yo perez, you should. You should be happy, bro. You should be happy. What are you talking? I am happy, no, no, you know, we helped your people, man. We even have the puerto ricans here. Man got two coaches, their national team. Man, we're treating them good. Man, you're over there talking shit man I didn't talk anything about putting.
Speaker 2:Uh, listen, you got to set them free, send my boricua brothers free. So right now, I was supposed to. I went to a soccer thing, otherwise I was supposed to play in the cuban kitchen, that restaurant I took you to and I was supposed to play cuban music. So I'm working on a trio, trying to find somebody, a man or a woman, who can sing traditional korean. Uh, korean, yeah, cuban or puerto rican songs, so spanish songs. I'm going to play guitar and I'm going to get a conga player and we're going to do this at the cuban kitchen. So it's going to be uh, you guys can see me a little, my ethnic background coming out, and then I'm going to invite tj with his jamaican shirt, I'm not sure.
Speaker 4:So I've never been hated on so much. This guy loves me every time.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. I love that cover.
Speaker 1:And my arms in my sleeve, tore my arms out and my wall was blank.
Speaker 2:Moreno had a mission that he did not accomplish. Moreno had a mission and apparently either he accomplished it because there's nothing behind you, or he had a mission.
Speaker 3:He gave me a mission impossible. If I chose to accept, he was going to try to steal my pictures.
Speaker 1:I was going to go and take a picture.
Speaker 3:I thought we were going to have dinner at your house for some reason, but I was going to go in that room and take a picture of myself like this and send it to Herb. And he's like oh man.
Speaker 2:Well, now you know you where you stand with TJ. There are no Mex. I cans invited to his house.
Speaker 1:I can't. You've been to my house, You've been to my house 60, just one.
Speaker 2:You'd have to take them all. You guys could have snuck out the back when I but you know just two. Two things left before we go. One don't order sushi or fish in a country or in a place where they don't have an ocean next to you. So if there's not a beach, don't order fish. Number two in colorado I don't know why you guys would think you could buy korean food in north carolina, it wasn't that great.
Speaker 4:I ain't got a lot of you. The bulgogi wasn't so good, it was. It was me, it was one of those, one of those I don't know like nouveau. It wasn't that great. But I ain't going to lie to you, the bulgogi wasn't so good, it was mid.
Speaker 3:It was one of those I don't know how to pronounce it like nouveau Korean place.
Speaker 4:They had, like you know, the the fusion, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 3:What is it called the pancake? Pajeon? Pajeon, yeah, so they had the pajeon. Yeah, yeah, they had the pajeon. Yeah, they had the pajeon come out. It was a waffle. What it was? A real legit waffle.
Speaker 2:Somebody should slap that ajumma right in the head.
Speaker 3:You can't make a waffle pajeon, you gotta be kidding me, it tasted the same but it looked like a damn waffle. I was like what is this?
Speaker 2:My Korean ancestors are turning in their grave. I know you guys don't know that I'm part Korean, but that's a.
Speaker 3:You are.
Speaker 2:You didn't know that? No, of course not. People used to think so.
Speaker 2:They thought something about my eyes. The guy, jay Warwick, asked me that. He said are you part Korean? I'm like what, what? Which part of Perez would give you that idea? But but I listen, I got to give Jay one thing. He did teach me something about taekwondo, he said. When I first made the team he said most people watch taekwondo. This was a Jay thing. They watch it from the top down. So they watch what the kick does and whatever. You should be watching taekwondo from the foot, from the bottom the stepping, because the positioning is what creates the opportunities for kicks, and that's Jay. I got to give him credit for that. So I thought that was a good thing that he did. Since then it's been pretty much a downhill spiral.
Speaker 3:How long have we been doing this podcast? And this guy just gave one compliment to him.
Speaker 1:That was tough for him.
Speaker 3:No no.
Speaker 1:TJ, we're healing people.
Speaker 2:I'm giving you one. I told jay when he took the job. I said as long as you don't. He said I hear that people are saying that you're saying bad things about me. I said I warned you. I said when you took the job, you had an obligation to fix it. And when you took, if you're taking it as a volunteer, you have an obligation to fix it. The moment you take a paycheck you become part of the problem. And sure enough, he took the plane tickets and paychecks. And you were there when I had that conversation with him because it was at a friend of ours memorial. And sure enough, he loves the plane tickets and he loves, I guarantee you, he didn't make a donation to usa taekwondo. Check the rosters. He's taking the plane tickets though. He's taking the plane tickets. Though he's taking the plane tickets and the bottles of kimchi.
Speaker 3:Let's end this with Dato3 down, dato3 down Thumbs down, let me see.
Speaker 2:It only does thumbs up. Let me see if it does thumbs up.
Speaker 3:Shout out to Mark from Canada with those things. He was sending me little pictures and stuff videos and I know he listens to our podcast, so thanks a lot and, uh, we should have shared those.
Speaker 2:We should that All right, and, as you know, we're going to get out of here cause it's been a minute or so. I want you to go to the gold fund me page to get TJ a new shirt. I can guarantee you it won't be green and lemon yellow with a tiger or Puma on it. Nobody in the world's got Puma anymore. I didn't even know Puma was still in business, so that must be from the 70s, so. But this is the Warehouse 15 and we are out. I'm going to press stop.