Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Ankle Biters and Pinky Rings: Taekwondo's Leadership Problem
The Warehouse 15 crew breaks down major issues in American taekwondo competition structures after back-to-back USAT and AAU tournaments, examining why development has become watered down and what's needed for the sport to thrive again.
• Critical analysis of running Under-21 Team Trials and Senior Nationals back-to-back, forcing athletes to make difficult competition choices
• Discussion on what true development means beyond simply attending tournaments
• Concern over American athletes lacking international exposure needed to believe they can defeat opponents from powerhouse nations
• Examination of the diminished value of making national teams when some weight categories require minimal competition
• Candid talk about political realities in USA Taekwondo organizations that discourage speaking out about problems
• Criticism of inconsistent refereeing decisions and electronic scoring system issues at recent tournaments
• Positive news about AAU national team budget reportedly doubling, potentially providing more international competitive opportunities
• Call for more random weigh-ins to ensure athletes can consistently make competition weight
• Reflections on the courage needed to vote for organizational changes even when it means voting yourself out of power
We're always keeping it real here at Warehouse 15 - sorry not sorry!
this is the warehouse 15, because tj had a moment. I don't know what it was a moment of, but we are back with bronze, tj and the mayor of tawando. How you guys doing today, how you doing, mr tj, I'm good.
Speaker 2:I'm good, chilling, just like said, always happy to be here with you guys on a Thursday. What is that? What's that in that can today?
Speaker 3:What is that.
Speaker 1:First of all, I got my Peak shirt on.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:I got my Espresso. What is that?
Speaker 2:Oh Espresso.
Speaker 1:This is a Peak Performance Gold Medal, life Skill Bracelet and I'm life skill bracelet and I'm going to use this one today. This one says compassion. So when you see me rub it with that in my um, I have my incense burning and my new buddhist self. I'm going to have the utmost compassion for you, tj. I'm going to exercise it today and I'm going to understand that this is a moment and I'm going to live in the present, not going to focus on the past, not going to talk about gold, silver or bronze.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, that would still be the newest news. It wouldn't change anything. How's the mayor?
Speaker 1:All right, well, you had your chance. The mayor of Taekwondo. How are you? We gave you a chance, you just babbled Taekwondo, what's up?
Speaker 3:Yo, same old, same old man Just got back last night from the AU team trials. I mean, we had back-to-back events with the USA Taekwondo National in a second um and then I went over to the aau and um coaching people, watching people and I tried to enjoy myself there. But there was obviously a lot of ups and downs there as well. Um, like we said, we got to keep it real, got to keep it 100, and sorry not sorry might be said, you know, quite a few times in this podcast. So, uh, yeah, a lot to talk about and yeah, what do you? I was in, I was, I was actually in ontario.
Speaker 1:I was there for a seminar for uh master jim nam, good friend, the last seminar really there was 20 years ago. He's in ontario. He's in the ontario area. He's a very, very successful martial art guy. True old school cat, he's young. I met him when he was 20.
Speaker 3:Old school cat, that's young.
Speaker 1:Dude. He was 20 when I met him, still teaching the right way. 20 years later, has two very successful schools. He's the head of a group called LEAD L-E-A-D where he educates his friends on how to run their businesses, and he hosted me. And then I had dinner with the best of the best star, simon Rhee, and it was amazing. We're sitting there. I had, in all honesty, the best Korean dinner I've had in a very long time. It was the best food, and it was called Yangshik or something. I'll send the name to everybody, but if you live in that area, it's in Roland Heights. I had I'm not kidding One of my favorite dishes is kimchi chicken.
Speaker 1:It's the best kimchi chicken I ever had in my life, and the beef had a off-the-hook marinade and a garlic butter thing they do with it which I've never tasted anywhere else. While we're sitting there, though, I noticed somebody kind of sitting next to us family. I didn't think anything of it. We go to a Korean dessert place next door and the family comes in while we're sitting there and they kind of sit down and have a dessert and we get ready to leave. We go outside and they amble outside and they're like he didn't want to bother you when you guys were eating.
Speaker 1:But he would love to have a picture with uh master re, mr master simon re, because, um, he loves the movies and I was just sitting there so happy for him. And, uh, he's actually going to be in the san francisco area next week and I'm going to take him to my him and james liu, who's also another famous stunt performer legend. Um, we're going to go to one of my favorite thai restaurants in the city called sap vir. So if you guys are ever out this way I know coach is coming out, tj, if they ever if you're off that uh home bracelet thing on your ankle and you can get out of north carolina, just let me know man, I've been there once.
Speaker 2:I've been here school once. You only invited me one time, though, oh did.
Speaker 1:You did a great job that was 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:That was awesome A long time ago, right, insane, insane. Every once in a while, that picture comes up.
Speaker 1:You're welcome to come out. Let me know when you have time. We'll host you, and they want to meet the person I'm always talking about. Well let's get started with the. I didn't go, by the way, I was right by the Ontario event and I had a few kids that fought and one of my kids won and became. Oh, he's here, Congratulations yeah just very happy for him and got a bronze medal and the others had okay matches. But that's life, such is life. But I was literally right coach's name his name is lopez and he doesn't.
Speaker 1:He hasn't. He was on the aau national team back in the day, national champion. He hasn't figured out yet that he's older, so he tries to do stuff. And he jacked up his knee on my mat yesterday so I had a lecture him a bunch.
Speaker 2:I'm like dude yeah, I saw him from a distance and he had a peak, peak jacket on. Oh nice. I wasn't sure. Yeah, and then I asked James. It was a little bit later. I asked James, howard, he's like, oh, he told me he's from California, he's at, you know.
Speaker 1:Coach, did you go try?
Speaker 2:to rough him up and get his jacket. I did. It was kind of a cool jacket.
Speaker 1:I ain't going to lie to you next time, but let's talk. I heard I've been reading some of this stuff on the AAU trials and tribulations. Let's talk a little bit about that. Who wants to start?
Speaker 3:Let's go in chronological order, because USAT happened first. Oh, okay, yeah, you want to start T For me.
Speaker 2:You know it's so funny. I was just talking to you guys earlier so I got to like so many things happened so fast just in the span of like I mean, three different sets of competitions. You know some of my guys had to weigh in, you know, back to back for those events. Um, I wish, yeah, I still wish, there was a way to separate that kind of whole selection process. Um, I don't think any big surprises right, like as far as the people that made that under 21 team or anything of the sort, like nothing really jumped out to me Only 57, only 57.
Speaker 2:Women's 57. Oh, yeah, 57. But that was unfortunate, though, if you ask me.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, they had all the good people on one side, but a new young person emerged, so I mean hats off to her from Virginia. I A new young person emerged, so I mean hats off to her from Virginia. I think she's from the Virginia Maryland area. She fought well, so I got nothing. I'm not saying anything bad because I think it's pretty good for the young lady. I think it's awesome. She's tall, good body, but it was a little bit of an unexpected. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2:That was the only one that kind of like was a little bit different than we expected, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, listen, I tell you what. Young on the men's side, it's a pseudo-national team. I mean, everyone that is there is either on the national team or second place. But really good, in my opinion, if I had that team I would go crazy. They're a young team, they're that modern era kids. They fight well, they they train well, they're very respectful. They're uh, they get in there, they put their nose in there and fight a little bit. There's a lot to work with there. So I'm not sure what they're going to do with that team. I know they're going to that world championships later on in the year, late, late in the year, but I hope they invest in that team. Um, even on the female side, you you know pretty young, you know what I'm saying Like something that you feel like you can kind of mold. I hope that they do something with it because it looks like a good group.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about that for a minute. So you have these young kids impressionable, developable, coachable, it sounds like. And then what's the environment that they go into and what's happened in the past with that? So I'm sure we've had young kids that have gone into this current environment and what? What's been the outcome?
Speaker 3:well, I got something real fast because, um, the actually. So I had a very interesting question by a coach and I was met. I was talking about players. This was at AU and he said what are they missing? What are they missing? And I'm like, listen, we can split hairs, cross T's, dot I's, but I think what they're really missing and I hate when people say experience that always tells me they don't know what to say. You've got to explain to me what you mean.
Speaker 3:So what I'm saying is these kids need to go to Korea, to Russia, to Turkey, to Uzbekistan, to Azerbaijan. Why Not to learn from them, like we always say, but to be in that environment so that they believe that when they stand in front of Serbia or Croatia or Korea, that they can beat them, that they can fight with them, because these guys can kick, these guys train pretty well, I think they're pretty coachable, but there's something missing. There's some kind of unknown if they can actually get past that country and not just that country, but two or three or four or five of them in a row to get on the medal stand. I think that's where these other countries excel. When I see these young kids from Uzbekistan or Iran. They look at everybody else and say you know, our country has a history of beating those people, so can we?
Speaker 3:You guys, when I was a young person, we had a history of beating some countries, but we also had a history of not beating some countries, and I was lucky enough that I never fell into that. But I had some good mentoring, some good leadership, and then I had to do a little bit by myself. I think right now we're in the bottom, where people might think they're good, but they don't really believe that they can go A, b, c, d and E into the competition. So my thing was take these people around, expose them so that what do do you say? That kryptonite becomes less and less and less and less and they go man, I can stand in front of these kids and I can do it too, even though I'm 18 or 19. I think that's really missing from a lot of our people true belief, true belief, and that's it's not from training, it's from being in the environments and understanding that, hey, we both put on our pants the same, we both kick the same. Why is this guy kicking my ass all the time? What's it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would mean that it would have to be treated like a true under-21 development team, like some of these other countries have kind of adopted it a little bit. They have a. I know I talked to some other coaches from around the world. They have a couple systems in place where they have a full-time under-21 team that they are like kind of working with. I think you have to put them in the same. I think first you got to put them in the same room. You know what I mean. We're not even putting them in the same room. I think you start with putting them in the same room first and then doing all that stuff. But I think we have to be treated like more of a team and a development place in our sport, as opposed to just the event team. You know what I mean. It'll come down to event and then disperse and go back to, you know whatever it is till the next year.
Speaker 3:That's that development, yeah, actually yeah that's the issue too.
Speaker 2:I think. I think that the sorry to cut you off, but the lines have been grayed between development and and and spending money to travel and do things like you.
Speaker 2:Just because you go to 25 tournaments doesn't mean you're developing correct because you get through there, just because you make weight, doesn't mean you're developing. It's what you do before, it's what you do afterwards. It's in that situation that you can grow. You know what I mean. But I think we're missing a boat on what development actually stands for now. We're just more so worried about being on the trip, going to the event and saying we're there.
Speaker 3:And it is what it is. I often say experience is the right experience because you can have a bad experience, right. You can go and get smoked, smoked, smoked. You can go to a restaurant and get horrible, horrible, horrible food. You're not going back, right. So you have to have the right experience and put it in context. I mean, there's going to be some times that you go and you lose, you get your butt handed to you. But if somebody can break it down, what happened, then the experience can be good. But if you just go and you lose and you just go home, you're just walking around going what? I'm not good enough, I don't have enough. You know where do I go? You?
Speaker 3:need some leadership.
Speaker 2:That's a scary thing for I think most of these kids these days, because you know, think about how back-to-back these events are. You're trying to pick up the pieces in a few days and you know so you're not paying attention. I don tough for me, for me that, like you just said, it has to be aired around a service, around the development, and putting them in the rooms and putting them in those tough situations for I'm gonna say good periods of time. You know what I mean consistently throughout the year. I think that's more important than actually just serving the event and going home. So I think that.
Speaker 1:I think, coach rena, with you, it was a little bit unique and different in the sense that you had two things you had a belief, you had ability, you had a fighting style and then you had just slayed the dragon in the States. So once you slayed the dragon in the States and then your next event, I think literally it's the Olympics. Right, yeah, you go to the Olympics. So once you do that and you come back to the real world, you know it's different and I don't disagree with you that it's experiential. You know I was talking more about the culture. Like, I've seen the culture of USA Taekwondo currently destroy athletes. Right, I've seen some of the best performers not perform because they get put into an environment where there's not the requisite amount of structure and focus on discipline.
Speaker 1:And I'm not talking about discipline, you know, discipline by itself is a tool to be used when it matters. So what does that mean? So discipline having to show up on time, having to act on time, having to dress on time, having to be dressed in a certain way, having to act a certain way gives you the discipline so that when your training is coming, you're training. And so, if you're, I can't imagine back when we were competing, me spending more than five minutes doing anything other than something that was going to help me win a medal. I wouldn't have been on Facebook, tiktok, I wouldn't be on Instagram, I wouldn't be having my shirt off, I wouldn't be dancing. I wouldn't be on Instagram, I wouldn't be having my shirt off, I wouldn't be dancing. I wouldn't be doing capoeira, I wouldn't be talking about winning, I would be winning. And so the lack of discipline in the individuals that do that is part and parcel of the way they receive their coaching and who their mentor is. So take one of the greatest fighters of all time, mike Tyson. As soon as his mentor left, the building passed away. His career went downhill, because the person that brought him discipline and kept him in reality For me, my mentor, my discipline didn't change. That person was there from start to finish and to this day, so that I maintained the rigors necessary to win.
Speaker 1:So my question is more about the rigors that the kids, you know who's going to instill once they get out of their home environment. You know I'm always choosing coaches on the rigor of the program. So when I look at my program from my kid, my son or my daughter, I'm saying, okay, I look at the coach, how's he coaching? What's he saying? What's he saying when they win? What's he saying when they lose? What's he doing in preparation? Now, if those things are lacking, I don't go Right now. We've talked about my son's going to be making a move to a new team for one year and when I met the coach I had the head director of the academy. I looked at his past successes. I went and watched three or four practices.
Speaker 2:You got to take a breath if you're passed out, who me? Yeah, you got to take a breath if you're passed out.
Speaker 1:Well, if you could reach behind you and get that bottle of Mad Dog 50. What is that? What is that alcohol bottle back there? Why is it prevalent? What is that? That looks like seven and seven. What is that? I think it's seven to seven.
Speaker 2:It's old coca-cola dude, that's crazy I'm looking at that.
Speaker 2:No, I is it a sponsor, just joking sponsor. I wish I know I'm just joking, but I tend to agree with you guys. I think that it is um, back then, back when I trained, training was a little bit more private you didn't put everything on instagram, you didn't put everything in social media, you didn't really talk about it, like almost you didn't. You definitely didn't show it. But I know we're in a different era, I got it. We're just not living the same game anymore. So there's a for me, there's a line for that.
Speaker 2:I think, you kind of got to do it, you kind of want to do it. What?
Speaker 1:does that mean? What does that mean when you say that? What does that?
Speaker 3:mean? No, I will say this, tj, remember me, and you talked about this. Kids do different things, whether it's social media, we didn't have it Blah, blah, blah. They do all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But I'm going to go back and say, of course, if you're going to do that, you still have to walk the walk and talk the talk, still have to walk the walk and talk the talk because, at the end of the day, the best people in all sports I don't care if it's the Jerry Rice's of the world, I don't care if it's um, uh, messy of the world, even Ronaldo, ronaldo, any of it they, they still work crazy hard and they still have the I'm going to use your word young the discipline.
Speaker 3:There is no deviation, right, all these fancy dancy wide receivers or quarterbacks, they never last. Basketball players, they never last, even the best ones. For whatever you I mean, you know I'm not a LeBron fan, but you know that dude is putting in the work and that's why he is who he is, that's why Michael is who he was, that's why Tiger is who he was, that's why Serena and all the greats, they all had that same thing in common. So, and while they were doing it, there was people doing other things that distracted from getting work done.
Speaker 2:Someone said something to me. Someone said something to me about. I asked them. I was like, yeah, what do you think about people getting on their social media and like we talk about training and stuff, you know like kind of I would say I'm going to just say getting into their emotion, their feelings, and I'm not saying it's good or bad. But now I went through this, I did this, I had to come from this, this, this, and he said something to me. He goes because everybody wants to be relatable, Everybody wants to be understood.
Speaker 3:I guess that's and that's a. That's a term. They don't need to, they don't need to be relatable, they don't need to be, they'll just go and do their thing. I mean, I'm not saying they're. Look, everyone does social media nowadays. That's in in the spotlight. But then there's some people who do it more because they're compensating for something else.
Speaker 3:Even in our sport, the best ones, the olympic champions, they they put stuff out there, but they ain't on it 24-7. They're doing their work, they're doing their work and then when they have the result, then they kind of put something out. But I don't know, it's just, it is what it is. But getting back to the under 21 team, it's a talented team. Tj, you were there. I think it's absolutely atrocious that people had to fight the senior nationals the next day and I know there's kids that fought juniors. See, uh, under 21 and seniors three events back to back to back. I mean, that's their choice, let's be, let's be clear. But the senior part in under 21 part, I think that probably could have been a little more thought out. I don't't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know it's another. You look at it too as you do it now. So it's not another trip for people, yada, yada, yada, yada, so forth and so forth. The USAT probably saves money not holding another Fair Yada, yada, yada, yada yada bullet on, and it should be explained that it's for safety reasons. I don't know it's for to actually get the right person. I mean, you know everybody wants to win nationals, everybody wants to. You know, make it to the team trial, obviously to make the national team. But I just I, I would like to. I think I've done that once. We had the um, the pan am games, qualifications, and then I chose to fight it open, but it didn't really have anything to do with the, the selection procedure. You know what I mean. You know, to make this team and this team within the same weekend, like that.
Speaker 3:So I don't have the answer because you're right. Let's say I did it in the first day. In the last day, then maybe we. I can't believe I had to stay there for four days in between and I had spent four days of it, I get it, it's not. It's not ideal, um so you know I would have liked some mats in the holding area, like that's not.
Speaker 2:That was another thing where the holding area was for kicking at the Nationals for USAT. It would have been cool to have some kicking mats. You know what I mean. I know it's not perfect or whatever, but there should have been some mats upstairs for these guys to use to warm up and everything like that. Most of it was just carpet. It was all carpeted other than the rings, I think that you know.
Speaker 3:But you know I'm going to go here just because it kind of fits into this part of the conversation. Look, you know, sorry, not sorry was a great saying that, you know, grandmaster Perez came up with. I thought it was pretty funny when we first started, but it's funny, like when I hear these people, you know, say some more things about me or about the podcast. You know, specifically, I know some people were a little offended or something on something I said, but once again, I think you said this, tj, is it true? If it's true, maybe you need to look in the mirror, and if these people that are these random, random ass coaches from Florida and happened to get positions that they probably didn't deserve, when there's other coaches out there that are doing a lot more, get offended by it, then that's too bad for them. Maybe they should look in the mirror. Maybe they should do some more work. Maybe they should, you know, develop some more athletes. Maybe they should develop more programs instead of just go sitting at the top and walking around like they know what they're doing, and some of those people underneath them that are playing the game, that have big programs, are putting people on teams and still have to go and listen to that person. Kind of shame on you for not stepping up, because you guys all say things in the behind, closed doors but you don't say it in front of the right people. No backbone. And even to be more specific. Even to be more specific when it comes out that those people want to say that they vouch for other coaches, even though they have an affiliation with the PEAK, even just have an affiliation with Juan Moreno and Peek, they have to get vouched for. And, matt, if they say that in public, what the hell do they say in private? And shame on those people for acting like that. Shame on saying I'm vouching for somebody because of their affiliation instead of saying I vouch for them because of their merit. When those people are putting people on the team, it's not good enough. What the hell is good enough, then? Shame on those people. That shows you how weak they are. That shows you how subservient they are and they're just trying to keep people down instead of bringing people in.
Speaker 3:Once again, you're going to make it seem like I'm trying to be divisive. No, no, no, I'm not being divisive, I'm talking the truth. There's other people in line. You know? Another female coach. How about a great coach from Connecticut whose son was on the national team? Who just put people on the AU national team? Who's put people on the cadet and junior national teams?
Speaker 3:That lady is out there working her butt off. Never once gets a sniff to go on a trip. Why? Old former national team member from another country doing great things, man, get out of here with this stuff. So this person not going to say names if she is offended by what I said take a look in the mirror, go do some real work. Quit walking around like you know what you're doing. Show me what you can do. So that's my rant for today. And sorry, not sorry. And you know I could. I could go on for a long time, but I don't. It's weird because sometimes I tell myself, don't waste your breath, don't give someone a platform, but at the same time I got to call some people out because if not, you know they think they can go around saying some of those things. So I don't want to hear, I don't hear shit about shit when things are the truth. That's my rant for today. Sorry, not sorry, good.
Speaker 2:So uh, it's. It's unfortunate that it is that way. You know what I mean and, like I said, I know these are. Look, y'all I've been told we're not friends, like where. We don't we. You know, um, I don't, I don't do this, I don't that, but, like I said, my name's been thrown around this organization a lot, like it doesn't matter. If that's the case and they're telling me that someone has to be looked out for because they have affiliation with Pete, then we're screwed Like where am I? I'm non-existent, if that's the point.
Speaker 3:Do you understand what I mean? So, no matter what I do, young, specifically on this one and again it was about a coach that I'm not even. Of course I have affiliation. I have affiliation with everybody, don't we have affiliation with everybody? Well, everybody knows everybody. Everyone shakes hands and gives hugs and what's up. How are you doing? But my affiliation is with his dad. I have a business relationship with his dad and a personal relationship with his dad. My daughter has a personal relationship with his dad. My daughter has a personal relationship with his daughters. It's not even the son's issue. And then the person is going to say, oh, because of his affiliation with Peak, like, oh, my gosh. And so if it's that far down the line, tj, you experienced that in the Olympics when they said you can't be in the same room because of your affiliation with a person from another country, like what, this is how crazy.
Speaker 2:That was for the, that was for the training center, that was even further olympics room. That was for the training center in colorado.
Speaker 3:I know crazy craziness. So you know, when I hear that kind of stuff, it's sad, it's sad and it's sad. And what's more sad is, like I said, those people that were around that conversation that couldn't, couldn't even defend it, couldn't even stand up, but that's their boss.
Speaker 1:You know, like you got to remember, that fear comes from insecurity. So when you fear somebody, you fear them because you have insecurity. So when anyone fears, their first reaction is to bite, bite back. And so you know they're called ankle biters because they're usually behind you and they're usually trying to drag you down. So it's the hardest lesson I've had to learn and I'm working on it now and it's like you got to ignore the ankle biters so they're not worthy of your time and energy, but they, you know, the organization is full of ankle biters and it's hard and I and I mean this like in the nicest way I can say it, and I'm going to try to say it nicely because otherwise it comes off really not nice.
Speaker 1:When you've reached the pinnacle of performance, when you've stood on the podium, in a medal podium, on an Olympic game podium, when you have done that, then bite some ankles. So last time I checked USAT's coach, usat's performance director, whatever. None of them have sat at the level that you or I or TJ has sat at. None of them have competed at a level high enough to smell the air that we smell. I will know when they are balding before anyone else and that's because I stand on a higher podium, I see the world from a different place because of where I stood. Now, I try to be humble about that. I don't ever speak about it, except, you know, when I tease TJ. But the reality is, you know, we can't be angry, we can't. We can be angry at them for not understanding, because they haven't. They haven't nunchi up, so they don't understand their social surroundings. They're not, to be frank, you know, brown, green, whatever their names are. They're not worthy of my time. They're not worthy of my comment. They haven't sung or danced at the level I've danced at. They can't understand what I did because they haven't done it. They've attempted to do it.
Speaker 1:I've met over the lifetime, I've met more Olympic hopefuls hapfuls as I like to call them who speak too much and tell everybody oh, I could have went to the Olympics, yeah, I could have won the lottery. I bought a ticket. I didn't win the lottery and nor did you. So sit down, shut up and learn something, but don't let them. You know I and that's like me, being perfectly honest I don't want to rain on anybody's parade. I don't want to talk about anybody that's not in the tent, but don't confuse your proximity to the word Olympic as actually having done it and don't expect anything more than that. Unless you've done it, you can have an opinion, you can have a thought you can have with that, but till you have the experience, don't. Don't. Don't what's the right word. Don't criticize your, don't criticize your betters.
Speaker 3:That's all you know, he's like I. I don't disagree, and I and I've gone back and forth, like you know. Can you be a good coach or a good referee if you weren't an athlete, if you didn't understand that, because I've seen that statement get destroyed in other sports, you know, does it help? Probably does. It probably does give you more insight. I believe it. It's helped me, but I've seen other people be successful. My problem is and I know we're kind of beating up this old conversation right here is that, okay, they put people in power, but the worst part is they put such low-level people in positions to develop. We say that all the time, though I know we say that.
Speaker 1:So we say it like here's the problem. You know, why did you get on a plane? Why did I get a plane? Why did TJ and I get on a plane to go to Korea? Because we realized that domestically in the United States, there were bronze medalists. The most we could hope for was a bronze medal under bronze medal instructors and I'm talking about Koreans that were teaching here, americans that were teaching here, americans that were practicing here. I looked around the room. Best result was a bronze medal. So if I wanted a bronze medal, I could go to the USA, I could go to the US Olympic Training Center and I was guaranteed a Browns medal performance. I got on a plane, I went to Korea where 45 of the best people in the world were training, and that's different. Now you got to go to I don't know Azerbaijan, wherever, whatever. Now if you go there, you're going to get that. So you're right when you put second, third and fourth tier lap dogs in a place, you get third and fourth and fifth. That's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we, we again, we've been up. You know, maybe when we first started this thing and I I only bring it up because there's a conversation at the nationals it was set in public and like I look, if you want, you want to talk, you want to debate, you want to, you want to talk, then let's talk some real stuff. Let's talk about, like you just said, how people get there, what they've achieved. Is it merit-based or is it just because and if it's because of a, we need a certain kind of people. There's other people in line that probably should have been there before and were doing it.
Speaker 1:So that's all I'm going to say about it. I didn't go to nationals. You know why I didn't go to nationals? Because I didn't want to have to slap somebody. So I don't have enough Buddha in my heart. I know that if I got in front of somebody and somebody said something stupid, I'm still working on being a better person, but if somebody said something, they're going to get slapped. So I'd rather stay home and not slap anybody.
Speaker 3:Listen, and I could have went, and I probably should have went to see some of my students. But I said you know what? I don't tournament to go to right away, but it's the same thing. I don't want to put myself in a situation where I have to not enjoy where I'm at. I'm lucky I can do that in my life. There might be some moment where I have to go through that channel, but at this moment I don't, I'm so used to this.
Speaker 2:I'm so used to this. It feels normal. I know you do. I've been doing this for.
Speaker 3:So If I had to, I probably would be too TJ.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. It's just normal. The ones who are respectful are respectful. The ones who play the middle play the middle. The ones who just outwardly like me and just really think, understand where I am. They say hi, they say hello, we share a conversation, but it's been like this for so, so long. Man, it's silly.
Speaker 3:I know you put a post the other day on Facebook, you know and I talked maybe we can transition now to the AAU and there were some things. And I was talking about a couple of referees and I looked around I said you know what? I think they might be one of the arguably the two best referees in this room and someone said something. They're like how could you say that with such and such sitting right there? And I looked at them right in the face and my intonations didn't go up. I go, I really don't think that they're very good referee. I said I don't think that they're. I don't like. I don't think they do well in the center. I don't think they speak well to people outside.
Speaker 3:I said super nice to me, shake their hand all the time, give them a hug, say hello. I mean, I don't have anything bad to say about them as a person at all, like at all. I don't know them super well, but they've always been kind to me and respectful. I just simply said that and the jaw just hit the ground because I was just being honest. I wasn't going to be like yeah, yeah, you're right. No, I just and it wasn't, it's not from, it had nothing to do with this event, has 10 years of events of seeing this person, and I won't even give the the nickname that not me, but international people have given this referee. And so I, just I, and I said that I was just trying to be real and you know, that's why you say tj people. You know everybody does this little snake and stuff like that. But why can't we have real conversations without people getting offended? Oh boy, you know what though?
Speaker 2:all right I'll give you a second.
Speaker 2:You gotta interlude. I was, I was with it. He stopped it. Um, I'm I'll. I'll agree. I think I had some pretty good conversations at au uh, team trials though I'm not talking about the, the referee and everything, but some conversations before, some conversations afterwards, um, some real conversations. And I was to. I think I was able to coach you a little bit. You know what I mean. I wasn't, I think me as a coach, trying to manage the match and manage my athlete. Always I'm going to be emotionally involved in a match. This is what I do. I'm locked in. I feel what they feel. I'm watching that match. I want my guys to win, obviously. So I think I appreciate some of the conversation I did get to have with some of the referees and, just like you know, we kept it what it was in the ring and then, like you know, afterwards everything's just sir, no, sir, cool got to go. You know it wasn't, it didn't have to feel like it was a us versus them type thing. So that was for me. I appreciated that in that moment.
Speaker 3:I think you're right. Compared to AAU Nationals I'm talking about, that was a much bigger event, so it's a little bit harder to have these intimate conversations. There's 20 rings going on. This was three rings. You're right, there was a bad call. You can go to the head table, your head referee, and speak with her and again agree to disagree or explain why it happened.
Speaker 3:I thought that communication was really really good. There was a really good. It didn't. I mean there was, you know, a couple of incidences. Actually, I mean we could talk about the USAT one too, but the AU one just specifically. I mean they, they had some, some situations that I did not agree with and then coming back afterwards and going back and looking at some of their um rules and regulations, I don't think it was in line with what happened. So I know there's two situations One where there was a match where a kid kicked somebody in the head. They did a video review, they looked at it, they gave the X, they fought the 17 seconds. The match is over, they're in the holding area. They come back According to the WT rules.
Speaker 3:That's it, first of all. You can't protest a decision by the thing, and we've all seen. That's it. It's, first of all, you can't protest a decision by the thing, and we've all seen it. I'm like it hit, it hit, it didn't, it didn't hit. We all seen that. And then, of course, the referees give this or this and you have to abide by that. Somehow, some way, they allowed the coach to protest in the ring. They went back, they looked at this kick and now they determined that it did hit again. I didn't see it, I don't know it hit. They said it was an error. So my first question was why wasn't that seen the first time? My second question is now what? What they did was they brought the people back. They fought from that 17 seconds and oh, by the way, the other kid has scored some points in the 17 seconds. Wipe them off and instead of being a leading, now you're losing, the kid loses and it's just chaos.
Speaker 3:And I was like, wow, like I said, last night I came back and kind of dove into some things and saw some rules that I thought procedurally that were AAU's take on the AAU team trials, and I don't think it was correct, but they told me that was the AU's, they could do that at the moment. Like I said, I wasn't involved in it at all. I was there the second day and then yesterday, kind of finishing up, there was two come-jones giving at once, one for evading and one for going out of bounds. And that can't procedurally, that can't happen. It can only happen with a misconduct, you know. I mean if you do something wrong or a kick after Kalio Actually you could do that, if I hold you wherever he says Kalio and then I kick you, you can get two deductions. So those two deductions at the end of the match, with no time left, lost the girl of the match. Again, I didn't see it, I was already coming home on my plane. But you know, when I hear those kind of big errors, I mean I'm always sad. I'm always sad to hear those kind of things.
Speaker 3:So I think it ran a little long. I think it could have been spaced out. You had some athletes that fought at 10 o'clock. They finished their round robin he was a round robin young and then they waited to the end to do the finals, which is not wrong. But they didn't space it out right. So he had some people that finished their round robin at 10 o'clock in the morning and then they fought their finals at six or vice versa. You didn't fight your first match until 4 30 and then you ran right into it.
Speaker 3:I just, I just thought that that from an organizational standpoint, that could have been thought out by leadership, you know and again, leadership I mean right now I think they're leaderless in the sense that nobody really knows what they're doing, not what they're doing or what they're capable of, like who's in charge, and I think you know there was one for this specific event. But it's just a little bit of a hot mess right now until they kind of get that figured out and then the boat can go big time. But I will say this on a personal note I won't say the numbers, but I heard through the grapevine that the AAU national team budget got doubled, doubled. So that's a big thing. I mean I think you know some of these teams, you know whether it's youth, cadet, junior, senior, b teams. I think they're going to get some opportunities to do some traveling and some get some experience and, you know, get some ranking points and stuff like that. So I think that's a pretty darn cool thing If it does happen.
Speaker 3:I mean, again, I'm not in the inside, I'm not in the books, I don't know any of that stuff, but that's what I heard through the grapevine. So long tournament, probably unnecessary long little, a big delay in a lot of the matches. You know, historically when people come in there's a match and then there's a match on deck and they're in their chest guards and they get in there and it's, it runs pretty fast but the time in between was just too long and you know, I know people missed flights and stuff like that and it was a little bit uh, a little bit uh tough.
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, a little bit tough what do you think about the, the kp and p?
Speaker 3:I felt like it was old. I felt like it wasn't the same as the Nationals. I know Nationals they come in and the KPMP from Korea comes in and they have all those tech guys and I felt it was a pretty good, but I thought it was a little old, right it's?
Speaker 2:crazy. Like normal, we always argue over what's good and what's bad, what's for scoring, what's not scoring. I got it but I felt like there was a lot of like big shots missed on those chess cards. Yeah, like a lot to the open side here, like flat here, like really flat ones that you go. Those are going to go off on a normal daily basis. You know a lot of those missed.
Speaker 3:Head kicks too. I mean a lot of the head kicks were strange ones too.
Speaker 3:You know it was a little frustrating for me, Hyung, and again I know you're kind of like whatever. So I'm just again I'm picking on AAU a little bit here. You know they say they don't have to follow WT rules per se, which I understand If they want to score 560, ronald's kick is 20 points they could, but then sometimes then they go to that. So I'm like which is it guys? So, for example, you know we're at the end of the day, we're trying to get this thing done and we're fighting over that. Somebody has inside their uniform their arm guard taped up, just so it doesn't keep coming undone. We're taking all this time. I'm like, really that's what we're going to do. I came to the ring. I'm wearing joggers, I had them probably hiked up, maybe this high off my ankles, and a referee comes to me and like, please just make sure those pants are pulled down before. Before the match.
Speaker 3:And just now, yes and I go. I just, I just kind of in my brain I'm like this is what's important. Like you're going to tell me to put. I'm not lying Like this high on my ankle, like I just I must've hiked him up a little bit, I don't even know, and I'm just like it wasn't on my knee, it wasn't in my calf and I'm just like this is what's important right now.
Speaker 2:This is what makes this tournament good or bad the things that they remember Jesus.
Speaker 3:I couldn't believe it, so it was pretty funny and at some of those standpoints I think it just could have been a little more efficiently run.
Speaker 2:That happened to me at Canada Open when I got it. Remember that guy made me put my. He wanted me to cover my tattoos. I was in the quarterfinals and I was coaching, I think, ava at the time.
Speaker 3:Remember that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I wish I remember. I don't remember. So it's quarterfinals.
Speaker 3:What I don't understand about you is sometimes you go ham and I look like I don't understand how you didn't go crazy.
Speaker 2:Because, honestly, I'll be real with you because it wasn't one of my guys in the chair. Yeah, that's true, because I'm coaching Ava at the time and I'm like you know what I mean, but if it would have been one of my guys, it would have been on and popping.
Speaker 3:And you know what, to your credit, you were there on behalf of Tops and AAU, right, yeah, there's so many things, so many things, so many reasons Good for you.
Speaker 2:So so, so many reasons, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:But the referee yeah, go ahead, tell them.
Speaker 2:So I'm wearing a t-shirt, the same t-shirt I've been wearing all day long. It's quarterfinals. Obviously you don't need a suit, jacket or anything until the semis and finals, yada, yada. That makes no sense in me and demands that I need to put a long sleeve shirt on, or I need to. I can't wear my shirt because of my tattoos.
Speaker 2:The tattoos on my arm meanwhile, everyone's wearing the same level t-shirt as me, right to the the ring next to me. This guy has tattoos on his arm and I was like I fought for a little bit and then remember, I want to talk to the I can't remember who was there as the head guy, but I talked to him for a second. I I'm like you know what, let me just go get a long-sleeved shirt and put it on. But absurd things like that. Absurd things like that. To start, the match.
Speaker 3:That's the problem with taekwondo that we have tattoos or you have your pants tight up too much, Not like learning how to call a holding or a push-jig.
Speaker 2:The guy Next to me had his t-shirt on the same way and a lot of tattoos. Same amount of tattoos.
Speaker 3:Racism bro. He was after you.
Speaker 2:I ain't going to say it. I hate to say it, I don't like to say it, but that was a weird one for me. Because that was a weird one for me, that made no sense whatsoever. We're in a room full of tattooed guys with short sleeves that have been coaching all day In other rings.
Speaker 3:You know I like to give props Young to one of our co-hosts here. I got to give props Number one. It was his birthday on Monday and he turned 29, so he looks good for a 29-year-old, Although later on that evening some person told him he was probably about 45, which I had never heard. That was crazy. Oh, I saw them twice after that.
Speaker 3:They were staying there and uh. Second thing is he had three people make the au national team on the senior level. You know he fought, he coached extreme. His kids were very well, very good, very good. I have to give you a lot of credit. So congratulations to that.
Speaker 2:Thank you that was cool for me definitely on my birthday being able to coach those guys, and I've only been with them a little bit over a year now, so it's always fun to see the growth and development. You know, I know we talk about the levels and national teams and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. It's way worse when you don't go do it. You know what I mean. I don't care what tournament it is, it's way worse when you don't go do it.
Speaker 3:So I'm happy that we were talking a little bit off air. But what do you think about this young and uh you know one of a social media guy you know mentioned and a legit national team member, um, and a legit world medalist you know mentioned something about, uh, people that just made the au national team is saying that you're on the national team and I I don't know who said it or somebody I'd never seen anybody try to misconstrue that an AU team is the national team, but maybe somebody said it and he's like hey, just remember, you're not on the national team, you're on the AU national team. And I think he was kind of throwing a little shade at him, but it is what it is. And so I asked the question which I agree with that, to be honest with You're not on the national team and you go to a president's cup, which is a difficult tournament nowadays, and you, you, you get, you win it and you get a wild card to the Pan Am championships or, nowadays, to the Pan Am games, or nowadays, getting 40 open points in the international circuit and getting to a grand prix, and then you win that thing.
Speaker 3:You're not on the national team, but you win a grand prix the top 32 in the world. You win a Grand Prix, the top 32 in the world. You win a Pan Ams all the best national team members, from USA, from Brazil, from Canada, mexico, everywhere and you win. So you're not a national team member, but you're a Pan Am champion Pan Am game champion, grand Prix champion. What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:I mean the best fighters. You know when you face the best. So there's two things. One, you can fight. You can play in an event where the best players don't show up. That's different. But if you're playing in an event, you're fighting in an event, you're competing in an event where the best players in the world show up. Then you're competing as the best. And we've always had this conversation and we talked about this before. It's in part about.
Speaker 1:So you go to the Olympics, and the Olympics is the top 16 men in the world, women in the world Top 16,. Go to the World Cup top eight, top 16, whatever it is. Go to Grand Prix top 32 in the world, whatever it is. Go to the World Championships anyone shows up. Basically, you're the best in your country. They send you as a representative. So which tournament is more prestigious? We've always said the world championship because of the number of people, but the truth is no, the ones that have the best players, and when you go and show up and you beat them, that is what it is. So the AAU, if the quality of competition has increased. Yeah, they're not on the US national team, but there are many pathways that are more difficult to get through. And so it's the level of competition and you know I always go back to because you see this here in the States in other sports, and you know the one that I have the most interaction every week we talk about soccer.
Speaker 1:Soccer has something called MLS. It's the pro league. Well, the MLS is a great pro league for the US it's not a great pro league. The great pro league is the Premier League or the Champions League or La Liga, whatever it is. So if you're the number one player in the MLS, it's great, but you're not the number one player in the world.
Speaker 1:If you're the number one player domestically as a kid, kid mls next. They have the mls select s next, which is the highest level you can play. There's something under it called encl, then there's something under that and club teams and whatever mls next even has. For example, this might be applicable. They have the professional academies. Those are the ones that are directly like Miami, international, miami, whatever it's called. That's the highest level. There are other teams in Miami that are good, but they're not connected to that team and the level of resources who you compete against is just different. So it's all about who you compete against, the level of what you're doing, where, why and how. And that's college sport too, like you have the big 10 and I I don't know in football what's the big best conference, because I don't see a big 10, or they battle.
Speaker 3:But right now they said a big 10 might be better than sec, but whatever they're, the same too they're and soccer's got the same thing.
Speaker 1:You got the ivs, you got acc and then you got the Big Ten right.
Speaker 2:I guess I don't go crazy over being the AU national team or our senior national team. I think we have pockets of talent. I think we have pockets of talent but as an overall grade I don't think we're top tier at the point as far as competitiveness on either side of it. You know what I mean. Mean, we're not top tier in anything we're not, the us is a mediocre program.
Speaker 1:You know, like nobody cares about the us anymore. There was a time when you competed and you guys know because you were around when you went to the worlds or any competition, you hoped not to get korea, you hoped not to get the us, you hope not to get mexico and then maybe canada. That's changed now. I think if you go to international competitions I don't know enough about it, but I'd say you hope not to get russia. You back, back, whatever. You're, back to stan or whatever and, depending on the division, italy or whatever else yeah yeah korea, korea.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, I think you hope to get the us. I I would, if I were an international competitor. I pray to baby jesus, I to US.
Speaker 3:Baby Jesus. But you know, dj, you said off air and this is true and I didn't think about it until you said it Again there's nothing better than make the national team. There's nothing better than to represent your country. I get it. But we also have people that make the national team without fighting. They just weigh in.
Speaker 2:We also have people that have have one fight and you make it, you know again.
Speaker 3:So, reminiscing about the days when there was five, I was telling my daughter and this kid that traveled with us and I was like you know, we used to fight five matches and then we came back a month later and then we fought head to head and at the first first ones there was no first or second seed. It was like you win or you lose, but you got a month to prepare for that one person. Later on we did the number one seeds and stuff like that. But and again, I don't want to be nostalgic and it was harder than those days, it was different, it was different and we had to prepare a little bit differently and we didn't fight as much. So blah, blah, blah. But you know, definitely been watered down and it's not the end all to end all, unless we can resurrect it and make it mean something. I mean it was a mess.
Speaker 3:Look, dj was part of my program for many, many years and for me, get to the national championships semi-final. Once you got there I could care less, you could bow out, you could keep fighting, whatever. There's some kids I'm like you need to win a national championships, but it because all that mattered was the team trials. We celebrated when we won that quarterfinal match because now we're going to team trials, now we can prepare. But the value of winning a national championship is just decreased just all the time. And now the value of a national team? Because most of the time you don't get funding, you don't get any development, you don't get any training trips, it's just it's been devalued. You know and where you can go and, like I said, not have a fight and make a national team in some categories. That's a little bit tough, that's a little bit tough.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think it's. I mean I don't know what you do, because I mean I go back to the. I Because I mean I go back to the. I think it started. You know, I remember when we used to come back Once you made the national team, you didn't have to go to nationals the next year, right, yeah, that was new. When I was turning into a senior, that became a new thing at that time. I remember it being new. I think that's important. I think they should, I think we should interject these kids back. Know, that sounds tough. Maybe it doesn't make any sense. I know we got to protect them. I know I know they, you know, have other opens to go to, but I think we're in a stage of development. So we should be developing and you know, putting them in rooms together and all those things like that I think, listen, I here's what I know from boxing, from wrestling.
Speaker 3:Wrestling has a big I mean olympians. They get right back into the mix and a lot of times those wrestlers, olympic medalists, olympic gold medals, they lose domestically in the trials and they have to fight their way back up. So I don't know if it's at the national levels or the team trials, where it is, but I do think they should be inserted into there, even if beat them anyway. Right, I mean, it's I, it's a weird, that's a, that's a, that's a good debate, you know. I mean, I know there was a, I mean young, you said that you, we, we messed up some of the good fighters, messed up the, the pipeline. Steven lopez messed up the pipeline, you know, for a long time because people just didn't think they had a chance. But I think because now, tj, now there's so many events, I think you almost have to do that. You got to make sure these people are who they say they are, you know, on a consistent basis. You know, and even for the random way and stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't. I think anytime you select a team, that needs to be random way. If it's, if it's a hundred, our pre qualifiers, our regionals, all that stuff, you want to do some crazy. Whatever Selecting the team for the event, there needs to be random weigh-ins, especially with the history of our American people.
Speaker 3:Like not making weight recently has to be Recently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like has to be, and then maybe people have to make a decision. I know this time they had all three events back-to-back or two events back-to-back and it helped some people that there was no random weigh-ins, but that's still not the right answer. Yeah, yeah, answer, yeah, yeah, like you know, make me make a decision. I had.
Speaker 2:I had a guy who fought two or three two or three events, you know, and we had to make a decision. I think if there was random wins, we probably I would have told him no, yeah, I would like no. We got to choose this was more important or this was more important and we would live with it. But we had an opportunity to get some more matches and that's what we chose to do. But like it shouldn't be that way, there needs to be random weight, it seems to follow. Whatever the event qualifications are and the things you're going to do at that national team event, you should do for the trials period once again like who's planning this, who's thinking this through?
Speaker 3:and I don't know. I've been in some of those think tanks. I know you can't, you can't be perfect, you can't be 100, but these guys are so far below 100 and some of the things are just basic ideas like this is not tj. What you're saying is not like really out thinking, or thinking outside the box. I should just be part of it, just so you're used to it when it comes to, I mean, other events. Those are the rules. Those are the rules.
Speaker 2:Those are the rules. You got to be able to do that, like that's what the if you have a kid, if you have an adult, if you have whatever they got to be able to make random weigh-ins and be able to fight at the big event and not be a treacherous cut and it's not going to feel too heavy and they know how to recover. That's how it happens. You know, we shouldn't skip any of that stuff.
Speaker 3:No, it's a disservice to the athletes and a disservice to the development and all that kind of stuff. So you know, we probably need to do a better job of that. But yeah, I mean, now we got a little break for a while, right, we got a little break before we have some President's Cups and some Grand Prixs. I'll be curious. We'll talk about the Grand Prix Challenge in Korea. It's a totally different vibe. I'm not quite sure what America? When is that again? Oh my gosh, my brain is stuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got it. I have it written down.
Speaker 3:I just don't remember. My brain is stuck on the middle finger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got it. I know, I have it written down, I just don't remember why is my brain stuck right here?
Speaker 3:hold on uh. Gp2, uh. End of august, august 29th to the 31st I'm excited to watch that one the problem with that one is is the president's cup is improved right next is right the week after for our pan-american yeah, for our pan-american countries, it's gonna countries it's going to be tough.
Speaker 2:I think this happens. Didn't that happen last year? Or the year before too? Something somewhere. We just keep getting jacked up with that huh Back to back, just like that for our extra bonus points that we need.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're right. You know, silly, silly stuff. Silly, silly. What's up with you, perez? Quiet today, man. We silly stuff, silly, silly. What's up with you, perez? You're quiet today, man. We shut him up.
Speaker 1:Tj cause you guys cause these guys are always, you're always talking about me, and then I talk too much. And then TJ, he just waited cause, like he had a, he couldn't come up with something to say. So he says, uh, take a breath, you take a breath no, what's up.
Speaker 2:You were like you were out of breath, you were burping. I thought you were burping, I didn't burp.
Speaker 3:Yet you sound like a sad puppy, Like no, because you guys are always talking.
Speaker 1:Always talking man. I'm like, yeah, I talk man, it's called talking.
Speaker 2:We looked out at the screen trying to figure out why we're so quiet. We're like what's up with you?
Speaker 1:I am right now. I'm just just like I'm still going back to what we need to do, and I think that one of the things that we need to do what can we do? What can you? Know we have to do, we have to fix it, fix it is step one has to be fixed, yeah, but if you don't fix it, if you're not willing to, if you're not willing to fix it, you're not willing to have a conversation. So so you know, I'm just not a fan of like complaining.
Speaker 2:I'm not a fan of complaining about.
Speaker 1:You know, they're all 15-year-old kids. They're 15-year-old kids.
Speaker 3:I don't think that that's true, because every time we're standing around talking.
Speaker 2:I'm joking. That was a joke. Okay, my bad. Yes.
Speaker 3:No, no, that was 100% true. That's what drives me a little bit nuts.
Speaker 3:If you truly feel like there's some things that need to be addressed. Look again, I'm beating up the last two podcasts. I beat up AAU I kind of work with. Well, I try to help AAU and I'm just being honest and let's fix these things. And I think the communication part with the referees this time we fixed it was better. It's okay.
Speaker 3:But I just don't understand these people that go around and I don't know what the fear is. If the fear is because they won't pick you to go on a trip or they won't, you know, like my like, I just don't get it. Like what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. And when you sit in your corners and talk shit and then you just go back there and be like I just I don't know what you're standing up for. And again you could say it without being okay you want to say Juan's an asshole because he talks. You know, you know too direct.
Speaker 3:Call me that you don't have to do it like my style right now, and everyone knows that I can be professional. I can, you know, sit down in a room with people and talk to them and debate and have some conversations. But those people, those coaches, those people that have investment with their cadets, juniors and seniors. They got to speak up unless they think it's right, but I mean, I haven't heard anyone go no, no, no, no. I love the direction. I haven't had one of those people do that. And yet little sheeps.
Speaker 1:So there's no. So you know, know what I've learned over the years with taekwondo in general and us taekwondo and then us people in general, right is when people, when you reward somebody or somebody gets something, they tend to be satisfied that they're allowed to be in the room. Yeah, because, because otherwise they wouldn't be in the room. So right now, if you take a look around USA Taekwondo, usat, aau, whatever, whatever there are certain people in the room. There are certain people not in the room. The people in the room are happy to be in the room and they're afraid they're going to lose their spot in the room. One of two ways If they don't kiss the ring, they don't kiss the pinky ring, the pink, pinky ring from the Olympic commentator then they don't get to stay in the room. Number two if somebody better comes in the room, more qualified, smarter, more accomplished, better at what we do, they'll lose their spot in the room. So I get that that's all based on insecurity and that's just life in general out in the room. So I get that that's all based on insecurity and that's just life in general. Number three is they're politicians and politics doesn't breed the best. You know somebody who did it for a minute or two. It breeds the worst. It breeds the best politician who's good at staying in the room, not getting things done. So once you understand that, then you can kind of understand it all Well. Then it leaves one other thing. Then you can kind of understand it all Well. Then it leaves one other thing. And this is where great people succeed and bad people fail. What are you willing to do to make something better? If it means undoing yourself, then that's what need be done. So way, way back in the day I was fortunate to have been selected and serve on the US Olympic Board of Directors Executive Committee, chairman of this committee. That committee Games, prep all that, membership, international relations, and I got a lot of great opportunities to learn and grow and whatever. Then somebody messed up at the Olympic Committee and we got brought before Congress. Congress said we don't care, we don't care what's wrong, what's right. You have to take your board of 110 and reduce it to 20. You have to get rid of your executive committee and actually reduce it to 10. So that meant there were 110 people in the room and I was on all the different boards and I was on the smallest one, the executive committee. It meant that I had to vote myself out. I had to vote myself out for the better of the organization so it would survive. There were others who didn't vote themselves out. They refused to make that vote and at the end of the day I made the right vote. I voted to make it smaller and voted myself out of existence and the future I had in the Olympic movement to a great degree. I went to other things Olympic Council of Asia. It worked out okay. But you have to have the courage to do what's right for the organization even if it's not right for you.
Speaker 1:And time and time again in USA Taekwondo the worst politicians, the worst perpetrators have been the referees. And the referees, because none of them did sport at a high level, with the exception of one or two, and those two were corrupt. One was under Jay Warwick and the other one just likes being in the room and continues to be in the room because that's what they do and that's okay, because I can't say anything about that. Well, the World Taekwondo Federation is the same that one of the best people in the world ever in our sport is on the WT Council and he does nothing to make the sport better because he likes being in the room. He's a politician and I can't say anything bad about him. Sport-wise Best welterweight in the history of the country, best in the world, better than anyone you can think of Anyone bar none, best athlete ever, ever. But he's a politician. He wants to stay in the room. So you know it's not, it's not just a province of those who aren't great.
Speaker 1:So, with that said, when you're ready to fix it, I and I've tried to fix it number of times and I've had some success removing. I was one of the people that removed the bad leadership twice. I was one of the people that removed one of the bad coaches twice. I've done my time and then, when it came time you know the times I say you guys want to change something, and then I turn around yeah, let's go. And I turn around and nobody with me. So you know, is it going to change? It'll change when it's out of the Olympics. So when the Olympic Committee gets bored with the kicky foot show, as it seems to be, then it'll change because nobody will care anymore.
Speaker 3:Well, listen, I know we had two different events with this USAT and AAU and it was interesting to see both of them. The good news is USAT had a big event, you know they had some pretty deep, you know, young kids divisions and and they, you know, to their credit again, credit where credit is due they ran it pretty smoothly. I know they had a couple issues. They just had a big issue on Poomsae.
Speaker 1:I don't know enough about Poomsae to talk about it, but it's nor, nor should you ever, nor should you ever, yeah, nor should you ever okay.
Speaker 3:Well, it was a big. Apparently it was a big thing. It's never happened and people are going crazy. But was somebody?
Speaker 1:was somebody's thumb like this? Is that what it was? Was their thumb like this or like this, or was it?
Speaker 3:yeah, something that someone got put in and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:But anyway, I mean, listen, I, I think, think, like always, there's some positives and there's some negatives. You know, we're going to see what the USAT does moving forward, because they keep talking the talk and don't they have an athlete identification program that they're coming up pretty soon here, tj, your neck of the woods. Oh yeah, like I already mentioned again, maybe I spilled the beans and maybe I spoke before I should have spoken up, but again, it was just a a rumor. But it sounds like AAU is going to invest, you know, double, and if they do good for them and good for the recipients of that, I'm happy for those people and happy for that organization. So you know, we'll see where it goes. But somehow the main organization we got to, we got to do a little bit better and they have this 21 team, they got this Pan Am team that's going to be going pretty soon. I hope they invest in these kids because they, if there's going to be a potential, it better be it better be them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think people need to. I mean, just see that too. You have organization that you know. They say you know they're the organization and the NGB, blah, blah, blah. You only go to Olympic games through them. You have another organization that is, if you're, if it's, you know whether they're developed, whether they're given the same amount of money they did last year or it is doubled, or whatever they're investing into the development. They're not going to put anyone. You know. You understand what I mean.
Speaker 3:Obviously, people go through this. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But even still you find that they are finding ways to invest in that part of the sport.
Speaker 3:That's the beauty of it. That's pure, that's pure love.
Speaker 2:I mean you can talk all that shit about national team, this or not national team. I don't care about none of that stuff Like, because, like you said, we were comparing apples and oranges. You know what it meant to make the national team and the things you had to do to get on national team and the battles. I'm not saying it's easier, it was just different, like you just said.
Speaker 3:No, but you're right the investment on a cadet team, junior team, senior team and a tops team for no reason. For no reason. Meanwhile, you got the other side. It's like we got our secret ninja school.
Speaker 2:A ball.
Speaker 3:If you're there, we'll pay for you and we'll invest in you, but if not, we won't the cabal, because youth success or junior success does not equal Olympic success.
Speaker 1:So if anybody cared, right. So equestrian has a lot of money, right. So back in the day, equestrian they were having a bad time with the US equestrian. So there was another group that came out and they thought they could do a better job and it was funded well and eventually they took it over. And so here's the sad part Nobody cares about taekwondo. There's not enough money behind it.
Speaker 1:But to be honest and we've talked about this if somebody cared and if I cared and I don't care I'm old, I have choices in life to what I can do with the rest of my life and none of them are making USA Taekwondo better. But if I did care, then I would raise the pot of money necessary. I would put together a performance thing privately and get sponsors for it, which I could, and I would create the infrastructure with coaching and everything else I needed and I would simply put four out of four people on the Olympic team because I can not because I'm the smartest coach in the world, but organizationally I can put together the smartest organization to do it. So at the point where somebody cares enough and it's, and it means money and choosing the right people it's not that hard. Taekwondo is not that hard to do. You could do it. It would just really be a case of because it's. Trust me, as soon as you put together an organization that provided funding, opportunity and and and instruction, the athletes would flock to it.
Speaker 3:I have a good question for you guys on that. Like you just said cause I you know when you say that you say that because I know you believe in your heart that you would get the you you're not going to do it. You're going to find the people that will do it. You'll find them if they can't do it get rid of.
Speaker 3:So my question is, let's say, let's say the coaches and the administrative. They're the top level tier, they're the top level. I do you really believe in their brain? They looked and said those other people are going to be the ones that help me, help the, the, the country, become the best in the world. You, you know.
Speaker 3:No shot, dude, no I think they go home at night and tell their their wife or or or husband, like man I just brought in this person, it's the next. I mean, if I'm a professional team, if I'm the the dallas cowboys, I'm doing that with each position.
Speaker 1:Coach you see it all the time. You got that thing on football where they get rid of people. It's like you know, you can say to somebody and you see, I've seen the reality shows. They bring the player in and they go dude, I love you. I got some bad news.
Speaker 3:We're trading you but I'm talking about the coachings. Same thing with the coaches.
Speaker 1:the coaches get fired. And I've said this for the longest time. I said you want to improve USA Taekwondo? Fire Fire your high performance director. Fire your coach. Fire your COO. Fire your CEO Because you're not performing. And now at that point fire and the board doesn't fire them. You know why? Because the board doesn't care.
Speaker 3:I don't think the board meets.
Speaker 1:They meet by phone now or zoom or something, and the guys getting the plane tickets don't care, because they're still getting plane tickets. They don't want to stay home with their wives, so they get on a plane and they go to korea to eat kimchi, right? So I mean, that's the reality, that that's the sad reality. If it were treated like a professional sport, like tj in in north carolina, if that were a professional training center, I don't know where they would banish him to. Being banished to North Carolina is bad enough, but he would lose his job in North Carolina and he'd have to go to like Tennessee and then, if he didn't do well in Tennessee, he'd be in Alaska and then, after Alaska, probably Botswana, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, I sit here in San Francisco, which is the top of the pyramid next to Miami. You're crazy, miami, miami. The only thing you get there is sandwich Cubano. After today's podcast, I'm going to my favorite Cuban cafe here, because next week I'm going to have my most delicious Thai food at Sap Vir. So sponsors.
Speaker 3:But you know what I'm saying, TJ, I was just thinking about that. That's who they surround themselves with. So when I see that, like how, how?
Speaker 2:can we be? How can we, how can we?
Speaker 3:be the best you know if we're not like reaching out, and then this is a change of thing. We're talking about investment. Do you remember, tj? I heard you'd certainly remember when, when we used to have AAC meetings and they would fly all the AAC people out, you would have meetings, airfare, hotel and a per diem to discuss important issues for athletes and stuff like that, and then they would take that to the board.
Speaker 3:I think to myself do these athlete committees ever meet like that? Do they ever get in a thing, have a free will to talk? We used to have battles and then, once we came with our program, we take it to the board and say this is what we believe is necessary.
Speaker 1:We changed, we changed the coach. In 1991 we walked out as, as athletes, because we didn't like the direction of the organization. We left the room. I let it. We left the room. I said you're not gonna, you're not gonna, I know. I said you're not gonna involve us, we're gonna leave, and so that's that's. Oh wait, a minute, hold on, I gotta update no, it's my awesome I just got great news from cornell I am they going to let you come and wash your son's clothes.
Speaker 3:Relieved.
Speaker 1:Dude.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry I know we're beating up a lot of old topics.
Speaker 2:I agree though. I mean it can't be the case.
Speaker 3:No, it can't be the case.
Speaker 2:But you know, like you said, I knew by me coming here and being very vocal and saying the things I have to say, then all of a sudden people will just dismiss it as like, oh for sure, they can't work with him because he's the bad guy. Now I'm the bad guy. You know what I'm saying and that's how it has always been. It's been like that for a long time and we just accept it and it is what it about it, right, because you know whatever maybe that's why they're there, because those guys are the nice guys and they'll just do what people say nice guys, the nice guys, I guess, I suppose well, what's up, grandmaster?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, sorry, hold on, I'm saying give me one second.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, man, come on towards that you have a dj, you flew, all right I'm back, all right. So let me. Let me say one last thing. I challenge you guys again because you never listen to me, but that's okay, because I'm nobody. You guys, if you're serious, about this. I've heard that one too. Movesight can see that bottle of 7 and 7.
Speaker 2:You know how long that's been there.
Speaker 1:Dude, it looks like it's not quite empty yet. I might be later on today. Let me ask you a question. You and I talking quietly nobody else is listening like when we get off of this and you do, you start to sob and then you go over to that bottle and you open it up and you start sipping and then start muttering under your breath here after these are you gonna, are you?
Speaker 2:gonna challenge me to all my trophies and medals after these conversations I'm so much more motivated and ready to go back to the gym. Dude, I appreciate I'm going back to having these conversations I'm bringing, I'm bringing it, I'm bringing I love you, I love you guys and we got a new
Speaker 1:thing here uh, coach, uh coach, moreno. By the way, steve capner is going to be here on the 20th, which is, uh, he's here now, he's in, he's in the states now, okay okay, I'm gonna tell that and then cracker to stay there come, come to seattle where we're gonna have a meeting in seattle, him and him and I. You want to join us?
Speaker 3:I'm gonna be at your place on the 22nd so come early, come to the 20th.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'll tell him to come down. I'll see if he can come down. He's retired now, you know, so maybe he can come all right. All right, guys, it's been this has been in the words of the infamous tj, bronze, bronze tj. And the bronze is not for the color of his skin but, more importantly, for the color of his metal. And the bronze is you and I. I am love bronze today. The uh or lay buff, hold on, it's my son, everybody. Say hello to nico.
Speaker 2:Say hello he does not want to end, hold on a second. All right, we're out. We're out later.