Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Medals, Mistakes, and Muju: Taekwondo's Uncomfortable Truths
Truth-telling takes center stage in this candid episode as we pull back the curtain on recent controversies and performances in USA Taekwondo. After connecting with key insiders about the much-discussed Poomsae competition incident, we share a more nuanced perspective on what actually happened while condemning the unacceptable targeting of child athletes with negative behavior.
Our conversation shifts to a brutally honest analysis of Team USA's ninth-place finish at the Junior Pan American Games—a result that should raise serious alarms for anyone invested in American Taekwondo's future. We dissect the disconnect between organizational messaging about "understanding the mission" and the reality of underperformance in a region where USA historically dominates. This leads us to deeper questions about resource allocation, coaching selections, and the accountability gap that persists despite repeated disappointing outcomes.
Looking ahead to the Grand Prix Challenge in Muju, we weigh the value of participation against strategic considerations, questioning whether some developing athletes might benefit more from targeting competitions where they can build confidence and success. Throughout our discussion runs a powerful thread about accountability—the willingness to own both triumphs and failures rather than selectively celebrating successes while orphaning disappointing results.
Whether you're an athlete, coach, parent, or Taekwondo enthusiast, this episode's unflinching examination of the sport's current challenges will leave you with much to consider about what true excellence requires. Join us for this thought-provoking conversation that asks the tough questions others avoid.
Sorry, not sorry.
Speaker 3:Sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry, Ha Ha. To the Warehouse 15, and again it's Grandmaster of Disaster and TJ has made a pledge. He's gone on a monk monastery vow of silence. So he says he's not talking today. Namaste, you know, got they, got they pot, I got they've. We'll see how long it lasts, but right now he's wearing a shirt called the warm up. He's in perpetual states of warm up, but let's, we're not going to start with him because apparently he's not talking today. How are you doing, coach Moreno?
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. I'm going to implore him to talk because you know, if it's just me and you, it would be a little boring. We need some spice. Listen, I'm doing amazing. We got a lot to talk about and I apologize to all of our listeners. Everyone's been asking me hey, what's going on? What's going on? I feel like it's been forever, so I'm gonna apologize, but I gotta give you a quick little recap, tj. I was in beautiful, halfway sunny california. I was with grandmaster perez. I had a great training. I had some I could, I concur some amazing, amazing. He's mad because because you have invited him out there amazing thai food. Tj.
Speaker 3:come back, baby come on smile, come on smile, so we can see you.
Speaker 1:There you go hey, amazing thai food. I will give him that and. But I had this unbelievable service. Hell, no, he didn't make. He took me to the peoples, to the real peoples. But I went to this amazing. I got an eye exam by this incredible doctor. But the doctor was amazing, but it was the tech that scanned my eyes, my retinas, amazing, great charm. Beautiful young lady, super, super nice, no other than Grand Master Perez's daughter.
Speaker 1:She actually did my scan for me. Then his wife gave me a great eye exam. It was awesome. So now hopefully I can retire these broke-ass lens-c crafter glasses that don't work for shit Next time you come we'll fit you for a pair of progressives.
Speaker 3:And thank you for the kind words about my daughter. You brought out my shy daughter and she was.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, she was awesome, TJ. They're showing me Prada, gucci, tom Ford no good or well, I ain't afforded that stuff, man, come on now. Come on, man. She's like, oh, these would look nice on you. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm sure they would. We would have given you the hookup price. Okay, okay, next time, next time. But it was great, I had a great weekend. Thank you, young, for having me and your family. It was awesome.
Speaker 3:Good food, good coming out and helping my young aspiring athletes, and they're always emotionally and physically moved by your ability to do what you do. I I was able to catch up with a lot of stuff, so I only caught parts of it, but I'm always appreciative of the time you come out and I'm so happy that you work with my coaches and athletes. One day, tj one day, I have a dream, and that dream is that you will come again to the amazing place it's been. 2008 was the last time you were here right, he's still. It was after that, was it after?
Speaker 2:No, it was after. It had to be 13, 14, maybe Really.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, hey Perez, you better be careful you wouldn't let me come before the.
Speaker 2:Olympic Games. It had to be after the Olympic Games. Be careful you wouldn't let me come before the olympic games.
Speaker 3:It had to be after the olympic games exactly yeah, that's true, tj, who.
Speaker 1:You better be careful man, mama, mama jennings in the house she might come and smack you up.
Speaker 2:They left this morning. They left this morning that's why we postponed yesterday. That's exactly right I didn't want to get no okay, now, now, now, I'm glad you guys had a great weekend. I really the sunny California, the food, the glasses.
Speaker 3:Hold on, let me check, let me see how long that vow of silence lasted. All right, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I would like to publicly apologize to our audience, all of the group of them that I was still sitting in front of my computer waiting for the podcast to start. They were out on their I'll call it a hangover Taekwondo weekend, doing poomsays and karate stances all weekend. I was here waiting for you guys. My shirt, the warm-up, awesome tournament, my boy, bernard Posey Master.
Speaker 3:Bernard Posey. He sent this over to me. He's doing good.
Speaker 2:He has a competition that will be January 24th at the beginning. Bernard Posey, grandmaster, bernard Posey. Oh, how's he doing? Send this over to me. He's doing good. He's doing good. He has a competition that will be I think it's January 24th at the beginning of the year. The whole concept behind it is basically a warm-up into the team trials process and national and all this stuff. He had a good following last year. We had music going in the stands, so it was a pretty awesome time. But shout out to him for the shirt.
Speaker 1:He has a good event. Oh really, he has a really good event.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's got a really good concept. He can send me a plane ticket a plane ticket too.
Speaker 1:This guy is all about free plane tickets. This guy man, I think you should work for USAT oh.
Speaker 3:No, no, I don't want to get in the way of a bad idea and a good plane ticket, but go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anyways, that'll be January 24th. I'll be out there with some of my guys. It was a good time.
Speaker 3:Where is out there? Where is out there?
Speaker 2:Greensboro, North Carolina.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:I'll go. I'm going to go Nice, that's what's up.
Speaker 2:Anyways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, let's get Not to catch up on. Let's catch up. What do we got? What do we got? You guys are on vacation. Hey, let me start because I started last time. I got to go. I got to.
Speaker 1:Just, we can wrap up this Poomsae thing because, like we've all three said, we don't know anything about Poomsae as far as the modern-day Poomsae, especially the sport Poomsae, how they judge and all the different stuff. But I can't say names because I won't say names to unless they gave me the okay. But I talked to two people. They called me, actually more than two, but two people that I'm referring to in this conversation very, extremely close Matter of fact. You can't get closer to what actually happened and they gave me their version of it. They gave me you know what happened. I have no reason to believe otherwise. So the only thing I'm going to say about it is obviously there was some, uh, some, some craziness that went on. Um, I take people at their you know word, actually the people to be the call me I. I, I believe him, but I'm going to let all that stuff go because obviously it was a weird situation. But what I'm not going to let go is I found out I didn't know this. This was a category that was for 10 and 11 year old people, boys and girls. Boys and I'm like I thought it was like grown adults. I had no idea it was little kids, number one.
Speaker 1:And when I heard that there was some booing and I do want to talk about that in a second in the stands, you know, was it at the athlete or the referees? Look, a free speech kind of guy. Look, if you want to boo at the referees, you don't like what they did. You think it was wrong. I feel like you should be able to express that. But I heard from these two people that these same adults followed this group to the medal stands and were booing this 10're booing this 10 year old kid or 11 year old kid, like for me, that's too much.
Speaker 1:If it's in the ring and you're going at the referees, okay, but if you're gonna follow to the stand, to the podium, and a grown-ass, adult man or woman is gonna boo this 11 year old kid who doesn't really understand, he just knows he got in, he knows he won, whatever the case would be, he's not thinking about cheating or not cheating or lying or hurting, and that's not right. I'm sorry, that's not right and I told both of these people I'm like you guys are a better person than me, because if I would have saw that, you know my famous thing I got to smack somebody. That's just ridiculous. You can't act as a grown up, anup, an adult boo, a 11 year old boy that's just ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I think there's no place for that. So you know, on that point I really agree with you. Know, usat, you know if that's how it happened, the other stuff in the ring. I got a little you know something there that I want to talk about a little bit later, but I just had to, um, throw up that shout out to those two people that reached out to me, gave me a different perspective, um, and uh, made me understand a little bit more what happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what you guys think about that I mean no, I think you mentioned it to me a little bit before so they followed them from the ring to the, the metal state. Right, that's weird, though that part's weird to me. I mean obviously you don't hear that part, obviously that's the secondary part. I mean it's a shame that, like, it has to go that far and I yeah over what's supposed to be the, the gentler, more respectful, more, you know, not so mean side of martial arts. You know the poomsae side.
Speaker 1:That is kind of strange but I will, I do, I, I, you know, tj, I'm going to say this and, you know, maybe this is open up a can of worms, because I find it interesting that the USAT did go to their lengths to come up with this, this resolution, you know, in this situation, but we've had sparring situations. We've had sparring situations where again, coaches, in front of everybody, called athlete a bitch, not once but twice, the opposing athlete, he's this, he's this, and it's right in front of director of athlete affairs, right in front of administrative people, and nothing was said, nothing was done, no resolution, not to the kid affected, the party's affected, whether it's the athlete or the other coach. I, I mean, that's what I said to at least they got an answer.
Speaker 2:At least. At least they got an answer. They got some kind of weird response and maybe it was too much, maybe it was the wrong direction, maybe, you know, I think it got taken in a bunch of different ways with the, the athlete, and then the parents, and then put all this extra stuff. But like there's been several sparring things that have happened that you know, we don't. It's just I don't know if we're supposed again it's that world of we just deal with it and keep going, it's normal, it's normal, it's normal. Or it's just not who you want to punish at the time. They're not. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know exactly what you mean and you know when I again, I'm just going off what I read, that you know if they can identify people through video or pictures and stuff like that that they're going to be, I don't know. I don't know what it would, what would happen to them? Reprimanded them, kicked out, warned, I don't know. But my point is is that I'm going to say some worse things? I mean booing a little bit or kind of like not being happy with the decision. I think that's one thing, but literally, you know, addressing another athlete from a coaching standpoint, I think that's a. Again, liz, I'm okay with it, I'll deal with it. You know my own way. But I'm just saying it just seems they pick and choose when they want to defend. They pick and choose who it affects or doesn't affect, cause I'm. I'm going to tell you right now, tj, if that that was you or me sitting in the stands booing a Poomsae kid, I'm sure we'd be sitting in the cheap seats, never to be seen again in, in, in in Taekwondo.
Speaker 1:So anyway, I just wanted to you know like I said, I told these two individuals I would speak on their behalf, just because if I'm going to throw shade one way and if I hear another perspective, I'll report that stuff, especially not having an opinion about it, especially not knowing what the details were and how. I asked a couple of questions like if this guy was double pressing, why was he double pressing only for that person? It seems kind of weird. Um, they didn't really know, but you know he didn't say it ahead of time, you know he's supposedly he corrected himself and then it got brought up later on. Um, seems a little strange, but at the same time I have to take people's word for it that it was a mistake.
Speaker 3:Well, you have to remember, there's no IQ test to become a referee, there's no agility test, there's no physical test. So we get our best and brightest of the worst and the worst.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, let's move on to the Pan Ams, the junior Pan Amss, because that was obviously a hot topic.
Speaker 3:I heard the USAT did extremely well and placed four out of four on the thing. Isn't that true? The USAT? No, they didn't. Oh, oh, no, oh. They substantially underperformed again, surprise, surprise, but go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean honestly, like I said, I think we talked about it on the last podcast about who we, the tops in each division, who we thought would win the divisions I know we talked about there would be some like tough matchups which we kind of knew. I just again, I think my it starts at the under-participation and I don't think we took this event too seriously. But it kind of shows that the overall from the I don't know if the amount of support that was given to the buildup, to making this team, to going to this under-21 Pan Am part or what, but I think it was we finished ninth overall in under-21. Was it nine, ninth, Something like that? Eight other countries finished higher than us and you can say we didn't take the numbers, blah, blah, blah, blah, but that's still our fault. We have, we should have, someone in every division.
Speaker 2:I think I've said again I said that before I think we're I'm beating a little bit of a dead horse, but it's. It's unfortunate to see and just being so close to the under 21 process throughout all those tournaments and being able to work with some of those athletes, I think a lot of those matches that were dropped were definitely winnable matches and it's just unfortunate that you know. Back to the drawing board we go and we'll have to qualify one person for the Pan Am Games, as opposed to having an extra person in the Pan Am Games process, especially with the initiative for the gold medalist to go directly to the Olympic Games. So for me, underscaled, underperformed, all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:Young. The reason why this junior under 22 Pan Americanamerican games was important first is a multi-sport game. All right, everybody takes it serious. Second, that's what I was gonna ask you. I'm gonna write it down. Second, second, if you win a gold medal here, you go direct to the pan-american games, which is part of the olympic process. It was very it's, it's significant, meaning you can have more than one American athlete in the Pan American Games, which means you have a better chance qualifying for the Olympics.
Speaker 1:It was important last last go around as well, and I'm going to say they took it a little serious. Cj went, the head national team coach went and they know the importance of it. But yet again to your point, tj, you're sending, I guess, the third coach from the organization. If it's Gareth Paul and Steve Lambden, I mean I'm going to say that he's the third coach, right, he's not one of the top two. So it tells me they didn't take it serious the whole qualifying process. They left everybody on their own. They didn't invest in anybody. So if you went, you went. If you didn't go, you didn't go, which I think is a big mistake.
Speaker 1:And when I look at the results in the women's 46, mexico, 57, mexico, 67, canada, plus 67, haiti. Shout out to our peak athlete, ava Lee, coach Lee's daughter. She won the heavyweight division. So Haiti had a gold medal. So no USA women gold medal.
Speaker 1:On the men's side, 58 was Argentina a surprise beat a Brazil guy. In the final 68 was Chile, beat the United States. In the final 80 was Brazil, easy walk away. And plus 80 heavyweight was Cuba. Again on the men's side, no gold medals.
Speaker 1:That's a little alarming when we've said, statistically, we've dominated and done extremely well in the cadets, we've done less in the juniors, now we're doing less in the under-22. What's going to happen at the top level? I mean, I'm just again not my opinion. These are what happens, you know, with with the United States athletes, and so it's a little scary that we didn't take it serious. It's a little serious or scary that we didn't get a gold medal. You're right, we dropped a couple of matches, close matches, but again, that's the sport. You know, when I look at the Mexico 46 girl, she beat their Olympian, she beat their world champion to get there and then she goes and runs off a gold medal at the Pan Ams you know what I'm saying. Like they took that serious and this girl might be the new 49 in Mexico, I don't know, but she's obviously somebody for them to contend with.
Speaker 2:you know, it's a yeah, a little's, uh, yeah, a little bit scary, a little bit scary I think I, I just I guess I'll ask you a question and maybe you're helping with that grandmaster. But like um, the for the under 21, like it's a usoc funded event, right, because the games junior games or like I would assume right, it should.
Speaker 3:So the way they do, the way they do funding is you create a high performance plan and then in the high performance plan you develop markers and things, and if it's something that's in line to put a person on the podium at the games, then it's usually funded because you put it as part of your high performance plan and a and to just to say one last thing, why was cj there? No, no, last time, last time, last time, four years ago.
Speaker 2:All right, go ahead no, I guess it's just hard for me to understand how I mean if, if it is usoc funded from an organizational standpoint, from a high performance standpoint, it should be one of the things on your markers. No, it should be. Somehow, I know it popped up last second and all this stuff. Blah, blah, blah, because it was kind of delayed, but everyone else got on board and figured it out a little sooner than we did, you know no, but tj, I would say that it was definitely.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know they got like uslc um gear, so to speak. You know I'm saying they, they gave them that kind of stuff because it's a game so that it's got to be uslc funded. I'm sure airfare, obviously, hotel and food and all that stuff was USOC funded. I'm not sure. Yeah, I know, the other stuff you know before was not the qualification part wasn't because that was individually funded. But listen, this is not new. They knew that. Maybe the qualification system was a little bit new. But this games has been everyone's known it for four years. So it should have been part of the high performance plan and we didn't just learn that this. You know, whoever wins, this goes to the pan am games that happened last time. So there's no excuse for not for for a lack of investment or a lack of vision, um, a lack of training, a lack of whatever to get these guys kind of you know. Now I'm going to say one thing you know, and again this is our age marker, though.
Speaker 2:Right, this is the age marker under 21. That we've talked about and that we've pushed, because we've already said that there's no success connection between junior and cadet success, but there has to be some connection between under 21 success and the above level success. Right, that has to be almost directly connected if everyone is about that age right now, correct?
Speaker 1:Listen, I agree with you and I'm going to go one step further and it can sound self-serving because you're my buddy and you're my former athlete and blah, blah, blah. But again, when I look at the makeup of that team, two people that qualify for that, as a matter of fact, you helped them qualify through that system, through all those, those series. You know Michael Rodriguez and and Maya Mata, like you know them very specifically. You've, you've been, you've been in the battles head to head with the people that they just fought and pretty successful with them. And now we take another coach that doesn't know them very well at all and it showed. It showed because one of the athletes was my athlete and there was literally no adjustment from first to second round.
Speaker 1:And when a guy that is a scoring machine scores zeros in both rounds, of course I can blame the athlete. I'm a former athlete, I put it on myself, but I also got. I mean, I'm also a coach and when things go wrong I take the blame. Things go wrong. I'm like what didn't I push? What didn't I do? I couldn't will him to get a come John to win that match. I couldn't will him to get a punch what, what did I do wrong? I'm just saying there was, there was there was an obvious disconnect, obvious, and you can say it's the athlete's fault, you can say it's the coach's fault.
Speaker 2:But I'm gonna say I'll go one step further than that. Uh, I know you said, like you know, me being in a chair with them, but also just being in that environment and watching that whole series play out. For the most part I think I missed the one, and that was the one in cuba, but I was able to kind of see how these guys fought, from the first one to the second one to the third one. I saw who lost to who. Who and what what kind of matches did they have when they beaten people, what kind of matches did they have when they lost the people? So just the overall information was not there.
Speaker 2:I, like you know you look at, I know you can connect that with the athlete and the coach in the chair, obviously, but now we both have an understanding of who this person is, who this coach is, what's their style, what are they afraid of from, let's say, michael, or what don't they like when Maya does this? You know all those things matter at a series where you literally fought back to back to back over the last what? Five, six months, seven months, whatever it was, yeah. So I think if you're not a part of the process altogether, if you're not paying attention to that stuff. I think you're doing a disservice because all those other coaches from all these other countries that invested in it were there majority of the time through all the series.
Speaker 1:I'm going to give a listen and I've said this before I think if things are done the right way and you, you fail, you don't succeed, you don't get the results that you want, I can live with that because I think the process and now I'm going to I talked to TJ privately. I talked to you, you know privately, young, like the Brazil group, we underperformed, we underperformed. We had one goal and a silver and a bra, a couple of bronze underperformed. They were hoping for three. They were expecting two, I thought two, two gold medals, but just the performances weren't what we thought they should be. But the process was proper. They invested in these kids to qualify. They took these kids to different international camps. They had them in Brazil training, they worked on a lot of video analysis and stuff like that. So they did the right thing. They gave them the opportunity to win. Did they pull the trigger? Some of them did. Some of them did it Like I said I, I, we should have won the 58.
Speaker 1:We actually beat the number one guy from Mexico in the semifinals and then we lost to an Argentinian two rounds to one. That that got away from us. He should have won it. To be honest with you. The Argentinian kid wasn't surprised. He beat the Chile guy and then he beat, you know, the Brazilian kid, so underperformed. But the process was proper, it was correct, they gave him the best opportunity. But when I go back, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:And the fact that you say underperformed, the fact you keep Hartford on you know he dropped the match in the finals two to one to this person a little surprise, all these things. But then the message that after our performance or usa's performance, the message we put out to the, to everyone, is they understood the mission or they got the job. There's no way, none of those guys like that. That's absurd. Like you, I know the poomsae guys did well and got some good medals and they all they're rock stars, right, they go over there and they win. They kind of they're really consistent within that region especially. Obviously you got world champions and big names on the poomsae side. But to say that we understood the mission on the sparring side and I'm not knocking anybody, I'm not.
Speaker 2:I know I know all those athletes, the ones that you just spoke about, personally and I know they wanted to go over there and win, and win was the only mission. Like, let's be honest, like there's no, we obviously we celebrate our successes for. Second, we celebrate our successes for. Third, being on the podium is way better than not being on the podium. I got it, but with eight people coming from a dominant position, coming from being like one or two in the overall rankings prior to going in seating seating to not get through to the number one spot in that situation, when for me those were their spots, is an issue.
Speaker 2:So there's no way we can say that we understood the mission. We did we. If we understood the mission, we're talking two different languages, period yeah, yeah, I looked, I get.
Speaker 1:You gotta get like you said. You gotta put a good spin on things. You want to be positive, but there also has to be some realistic. You know talk as well, so I, I don't know. There's got to be a balance.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I, I know three of those kids pretty well, well, two pretty well and one kind of from the outside watching, and yeah, I didn't um I saw all three of those, those three heavy hitters that I thought to be in the finals and probably win didn't and you know that it wasn't uh, it wasn't pretty from their standpoint and they'd probably be the first to admit it. But again, you know, we I think we've all been consistent since we started this thing. We don't like to blame athletes, we don't like to, you know, point the fingers at them, but there were some things leading up to it that probably would have, could or should have been addressed better and I know, I know i't like I guess the thing is I know it comes up when we kind of talk about this stuff.
Speaker 2:I know it's not, we all know it's not easy to win. We all know you can have the best plan and still into the arena and come out with the worst results. On days You're like shit, what went wrong? But but just just not even taking that part into consideration, it has to be viewed as an underperformance. We underperformed. We're number nine. I don't think I've ever seen I don't remember the last time I looked at any finishes in the Pan Am region that saw us beneath eight other countries that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Other Pan Am countries and it's because you know we got three medals but they didn't get a gold, and so obviously we know gold is is much higher. So you're right, you're right, you know, it's one of those things. Like you know, haiti, haiti finished, I think, number four. They got one medal, they had one athlete, they had one athlete. Century got three medals, we got three bronze. A little bit more consistent with bigger club, bigger team, but you're right, united states cannot finish ninth in a junior, under 22 pan-american event with eight athletes in each category. No, no, no, that's, that's eight athletes per division. You can't, we can't be number nine, that's, it's an impossibility.
Speaker 2:And again, maybe that goes back to say oh you know, we didn't take enough athletes, well, well, that's the problem. And, like I said, all the other countries invested in getting their guys there. They formed teams. I was around some of the other coaches, I got to talk to them about it. They purposely bought teams for this event. I don't understand how we skipped this event, especially with it being something on the USOC kind of like I think it lines up. You know what I mean. I think it makes sense. You got your under 21 person get to the real pan am game, which is a bigger usoc event, like I just yeah, yeah, all from the beginning to the end. It can't be understood the mission. I don't think anyone understood the mission.
Speaker 3:So yeah yeah we've always said, and it continues to be the case, performance versus outcomes, right. So if you perform well, you have and you didn't win. That's a different thing. If you didn't perform well and one of the factors in that, you know athletes we always hold ourselves accountable for what happens in the ring, because we've had, I've had some of the worst coaches in the history of mankind.
Speaker 3:I mean, they didn't, they didn't understand the game, they paid for a position, or they sat in the chair and just looked at me and in some cases sat in the chair and even didn't hand me my water bottle. Then it's on me to win and ultimately, I think it's on the athlete's shoulders to win. But on the other hand, when you have good coaches and coaches that can see and have an eye, then they enhance your performance. And then there's the other question that when you have good coaches and coaches that can see and have an eye, then they enhance your performance. And then there's the other question that needs to be asked is if they're incapable, why are they in the chair? Number two if they're unwilling to help you for whatever reason I don't want to make any nefarious allegations then that's a different problem and I've seen that happen in the past, then that's a different problem, and I've seen that happen in the past. So the organization.
Speaker 3:At the end of the day, historically we have been an organization that has done well in the Pan Am Games. If we're at number eight, that puts us at the bottom of the top quartile and that's someplace that we've never seen. We breathe verified air. We're in a country of 330 million people and for no other reason we should be at the top of that metal table, especially in the Pan Am region. You can make arguments all you want for the international arena, where we compete against the entire world, but there's no excuse. And it goes back to the final and most important thing. Why are the people that are holding the wheel still allowed to hold the wheel? Why are they allowed to gas up the car and continue to drive the bus? That's the part that's just fascinating.
Speaker 2:We got a lot of people on staff. It frustrates me that again I said it about the US Open, I said it about some of the national and team trials that our big coaches are not there. And again, nothing against who they sent. I don't care who you sent. You've already told us who the best coaches in our country are our national team head coaches and they're not a part of the process at that point, at the under 21. You already said you're not going to go do cadets, you're not going to go do juniors, but at under 21, you're not a part of that process.
Speaker 3:It's gross. Well, how does it fit into the competition matrix? That's the part that's kind of funny to me. In other words, you make a high-performance plan and you're taking arguably your most important group, subgroup, and you're saying, okay, we're not going to expect this group to do anything or matter. That's the part that's fascinating to me.
Speaker 2:That would seem to be there they have they bought in new athletes too, there that train with them full time. So their guys are there. The one they just bought into the program are there at this event, like I don't know how it would make me stay home, I don't know how I wouldn't take a flight flight there. Whether it be and you're someone else, coach, let it be me be there for support. There's no shot that I'm not there in support of those guys, because I know that it's important for them at that moment.
Speaker 1:And three of the people that went there they specifically picked right, so obviously they're invested in them. So invest in them, be there, show them that you want to be there. Young, you said something. You said people have paid for the position, didn't know anything about the game. Now it's the opposite people are getting paid for the position, but they don't know anything about the game.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah no, the wheel. The wheel has fully turned. And this goes back to a conversation we've had many times in the past. We were rife with koreans that were under, couldn't communicate with the athletes because lack of language skills, and they literally paid for the position. In other words, if you wanted to be head coach, you paid $25,000. You wanted to be assistant coach, you paid this much. You want to be head of team, you paid this much. And that list just went on and on and on. And then the organization was corrupt. They then took that money and had parties and hookers and whatever drinking not drugs, not that I know of, but certainly then there was the abuse of athletes, both physical and mental and intellectually. So then the organization and I was part of that movement decides to flush the toilet and get rid of all of them, and I was on the phone and made that call to get one out in particular, and then that person left. Well, full circle. Now, same show, same dance, and one of the guys who was part of the problem is now back again non-Korean, one of the biggest shucksters, shysters in the world, and he's taking those plane tickets and is, in fact, running to become vice president of the second most corrupt organization in the world, the WT. So now it's gone full circle.
Speaker 3:The only difference is the tenor and the ethnicity has changed and it's full-on diversity. And I can say this there's not a single Korean involved in it. It's Americans Americans, not Korean Americans even. It's Americans of all colors and shades involved in it, taking the plane tickets and being corrupt and doing nothing performance wise. So where are all the Americans now? Or the people that love the sport? Why aren't they up in arms? So if I were the Koreans and the Korean Americans, I'd be screaming up and down hey, what about these guys? And I don't want to make it ethnic or racial in nature, but you got to kind of look at it. It's xenophobia at its highest. The only other organization more xenophobic than usa taekwondo is the wt, their board of directors, their, their infrastructure and the kooky one the kooky one too. So just take a look at that.
Speaker 2:The kooky one's worse then someone posts on about like the four, the three of the four board members that normally are there, aren't attending the meetings, or something like that. You know what I'm talking about, oh time for USAT. Yeah, the actual board Isn't all that election stuff coming up soon too.
Speaker 1:No, I think that was. We're actually talking about two different things.
Speaker 1:Herbie is talking about the WT stuff that's coming up because there is a new dr cho is going to run unopposed, but then there's now they got council members that they gotta get but it's got to be two council members from each region, each continent, but it's got to be a male, female and they get elected first, and after that there's four more that can get elected from anywhere in the world based on their number of counts. So I know there's a couple of USA people going there that are going to try to run for the first two, the male and female here, and then, of course, the random fourth. But what you're talking about, tj, is the USA T-Board. They had a meeting and there was like four people that didn't show up and they were talking about money issues and different things and again, i-.
Speaker 3:What money issues. What money issues and different things. And again I what money issues? What money issues?
Speaker 2:Not money issues Something about they had a surplus of money and they were moving it from one place to another to accrue more money. I don't know whatever that meant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had a surplus of money which I'm like okay, great, but they're going to. They had a couple of people from what I got, like they're going to invest it to make more money. That's kind of what I got. I didn't read into it too much, I don't want to take too much time on that, but they had a surplus of money and they had two people that were going to help them maximize this money. So it sounds like an investment. That's. You know, I don't know, but that's tough. You know what I mean From an organization standpoint. You're going to take. You know You're going to take money and use it in investment.
Speaker 3:Investment in the sense of like trying to make more money on a stock, on a.
Speaker 2:They're limited under rules what they can do with nonprofit money.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:And they also have to if they want to maintain which they need to maintain their nonprofit status the vehicles and the type of instruments they can use to invest in. They can't do certain things. The other part of the problem is they are supposed to, per nonprofit rules, use all that money. All that money is supposed to be used in a calendar year or allocated within a certain degree to be used, and so the foundation you know the US Olympic Committee has a foundation that is extremely successful because the people that run it do it extremely well. So that's what, what?
Speaker 1:what do you do, like, for example, if you have private money. So, for example, I get a private donor, I get a sponsor, whatever Does that money? Or is it always what you're talking about Only with Olympic Committee money?
Speaker 3:No, no, it goes in, it goes, it's your non-profit. Yeah, non -profits are non-profits. So there's, the rules have shifted. I think a little bit as to how much, but there was originally. It's no longer the case.
Speaker 3:The money had to be used, or targeted to be used, for certain projects within a certain period of time, and so, and, and for obvious reasons, you don't want a nonprofit amassing a bunch of money, keeping it and then it's not being used for its intended purpose.
Speaker 3:So the original idea of a nonprofit was they got certain amount of tax breaks and initiatives and for that there was a burden that went along with that. The money had to be shown to be used for the purpose of the nonprofit. So and I don't I can't speak to any specificity these days because it's been a minute since I was on the board of the usoc or usat, so, um, I kept more in line with that but like, for example, even in my city when I was mayor and and on the council, we couldn't invest in just anything we had. There were certain things that we could invest in as part of our portfolio, but even that was governed. And then the money we had we could, we weren't. We're not a. We're a governmental agency but we have the same thing. There's certain, you know, like we couldn't take our money and invest in Google right or stuff like that. There's a bunch of reasons.
Speaker 1:I know we talked about this before, but I'm still like curious what I mean. What percentage of their budget goes to the high performance staff and what percentage of the budget goes to the athlete investment, whether it's direct athlete support, meaning money in their pocket, or support as in funding trips and and in development. You know, I'm saying I mean I still it's always. I don't understand why that's this hidden thing or this kind of broken up thing like just simply, hey, we have a million dollars.
Speaker 2:It says it a little bit on like that says a little bit on like the financial statements, but they're always like a year and a half, two years behind. But like also all the categories are very like, like you just said that's my point yeah, yeah just simple.
Speaker 1:Look, we got a million dollars. We have a hundred thousand dollars. Uh, 40 of it goes to the staff and 60 goes to the athletes. I'll bet 60. Uh, 45 of that is directly in their pocket and 55% is for events. You know what I'm saying? Like something simple that people could just. You know cause, when I see this person gets this and it, this person gets this, this person gets this person gets this and eight months later it changes, it's just, it gets weird. You know it gets weird.
Speaker 3:So anyway, you can download where the money went, um, by doing a simple tax thing. And it's uh, and I'm gonna get my man, don lewis, to do that. I'm looking at it right now and, uh, shout out, don lewis, you know. So you look at it and it tells you the purpose of the usat shall be inspire usa athletes to achieve sustained competitive excellence in the sport of taekwondo. Right, that's the nonsense. But the uh. They had a three million dollar, 30 uh income of the prior year of 34, 3.4 million dollars, and they had 2.4, and this was in the calendar year. What year was this? That was 2016, so that's a minute ago. But even back then that's what they had. And then it says the largest part of their budget back then was going to events. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but even 16,. That was even before this administration was even there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So you'd have to look up the new thing.
Speaker 1:I know they put it there. Let's move on to the Grand Prix Challenge. It's coming up this week. I'm excited.
Speaker 2:I'm always excited at competition. I feel like I'm fighting again. I don't know. I know it's going to be those late. I've got to get all my sleep in the early part of the week so I can wake up at 2, 3 in the morning to watch the matches.
Speaker 1:It's a three-day weekend, so that's good, that's good news. Hey come take a picture with me.
Speaker 3:Well, I have one of my seniors calling me, so I'm going to send him a note and tell him why I can't talk to him, because I'm talking to the Tell him sorry, not sorry. Sorry, not sorry. I'll send him that new video I made, but go ahead. People keep saying that to me already.
Speaker 2:People keep using that.
Speaker 1:But hey you know, sorry, not sorry.
Speaker 2:Like okay.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Young, that's good man.
Speaker 3:That's the way you got to express. You know, every time that I've been called upon to apologize for something I had nothing to do with, that's what I say. I'm sorry. You feel badly about that, not sorry, but that's not on me.
Speaker 2:I read this quote a little different, not directly connected to what you just said, but it says that when you speak, you're at the mercy of the listener.
Speaker 1:And I thought that resonated with me so much. I like that, yeah much. I like that, yeah, right, yeah, I like that, so it's like, you know, you can say a lot of things.
Speaker 2:You can, you know, explain a lot of things. You can break a lot of things down, but, like, at the end of the day, you're always at the mercy of the person who's listening. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's also to that point you can we said this this weekend young like you can make, you have a choice to do anything. You have a choice to say anything, but you can't control the consequences. I can say whatever I want. I can't control how you guys think about it, right? Yeah? So whatever you say, like you said, say. But that's that's why we say sorry, not sorry, because I'm saying what I believe, I'm saying what I feel, I'm saying. I'm not trying to hurt anybody if. If you take it wrong, that's on you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because you can be held accountable. I hold myself personally responsible for the things I say, but I can't hold myself personally responsible for your ability to understand what I said. So that's on you. I can hold myself responsible for what I say and the consequences thereof, but your inability to understand what I say or your unwillingness to do the work that's necessary to understand what we say, that's on you. So if you can't, you don't take the time. So here's this. I'll give you an example of what we were just talking about. So if I say on this podcast, usat should be held responsible for its misuse of funds, for perpetuating and procreating bad ideas and trying to get people on boards and then ignoring athletes, now what I've said, I've said. I'll let myself be held accountable for what I said. That's just reality. Now your ability to understand what I said or do something about it or not respond, that's on you. I said it. Now you do what you want with it. Now the reality is that you got to stand by what you say, don't say it, or say it, and then, uh, you know you.
Speaker 3:There are people in the world that say stuff all the time and people dismiss them because they're not serious people, in the words of logan roy, from uh, what? That's succession. So you know I can't help people, but we say a lot of stuff here and it goes and people that resonates with people. Why? Because it's true. How can the usa, at its large state of affairs and everything that it does and when we choose to be good at a sport, we're the best in the world at it how can it continue to underperform in taekwondo when it had a history of performance that was better when it was in the athlete's hands.
Speaker 3:When we were training, everything was in our hands. We, by ourselves, got and funded ourselves to do things and we did better. Now they have all the money in the world. They create a thing. They move everybody to the jungles of North Carolina, wherever it is South Carolina, I don't know where they are anymore and they hip hop, wick walk, capoeira fur jackets and don't perform. Well, that's on you. Now. You had all the money in the world, you moved it to the jungle. You're in the jungle, you're doing jungle dancing and you're not performing on. You simply said all right, grab your challenge yeah, but anyways, I'm excited about that.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, though I I mean, stop for a second. I agree with you. 100. I think that's what you were talking a little bit too, coach, like that. Now you know it is what it is. You have all the pieces, you have all the, you have everything lined up. Now what do we do with this? I like I'll stand by what I said. I don't think eliminating all the creativity in our country and almost putting people in a position where they have to kind of go. What are you going to do? You know?
Speaker 1:but I, I wrote down like listen, you win if you want the sun. If you lose, you got to take the shade, Right? I mean, you guys like and I think that's the big problem with a lot of people, I mean or or or or. Give me an excuse and give me a rational reason why things didn't work out. Listen, I wasn't part of the 21 program in Brazil. On the outside, I mean, I definitely gave some input, but I wasn't training with them, I wasn't traveling with them. I didn't do that. That wasn't what I was supposed to do.
Speaker 1:But I said we underperformed. I mean, we talked about it in our high-performance group, we talked about it in our coaching. We talked about one day was terrible, like terrible, we were miserable. Okay, but we still. At least we can rationalize what we did and we can chalk it up to a bad day. But I think that's why I said you know, if you're going to take the good, you got to take the bad. You know you take the good. When you make a lot of money, you take the bad. When you lose a lot of money, you take the good. When you win, you take the bad. You know. When you lose, you know that's just. That should be how a coach, how an athlete, how a organization operates, because we should take responsibility.
Speaker 3:But you know, you know the saying. The saying is success has many parents. Failure is an orphan Right and and and there's no greater, no greater speaker of this than us, and there's no greater denier of this than the organization they are the first ones to take success and parent it. They're like oh, uh, anastasia, oh, she won because. No, she didn't win because of you, she won because of her and her coach. You guys had zero.
Speaker 1:Oh, congratulations the boom say, no boom say, swipe they, they swept, they swept three gold medals.
Speaker 3:God bless America. May they live long and prosper. The Poomsae people.
Speaker 1:It's because of their coaches and those athletes, those coaches and those athletes are doing their stuff, man I mean. So it's not an organizational thing, that's an individual thing, that's team.
Speaker 3:Anyway, let's move on. That's M-team, M-team, team M or whatever.
Speaker 1:They are those guys, they got a voice yeah, I'm excited, I'm excited about those guys yeah, I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'm excited about this week, though, like I said, it being in Korea those I'm gonna start with. The crowds are gonna be crazy like the. The number of fans in the stands is gonna be a lot. No, why not?
Speaker 1:it's.
Speaker 3:Mujuoo it's.
Speaker 1:Moojoo, they still got to get people to show up.
Speaker 3:That's worse than North Carolina.
Speaker 2:There'll be more than the first one. I think there'll be more than the one this year. It'll be a good-sized crowd. You don't think they'll pack it still.
Speaker 3:I guess the last one was at PAX.
Speaker 1:When they did that with.
Speaker 2:Muju right.
Speaker 1:I think it'll be more than Charlotte, of course, but the venue's a lot bigger. It looks first class. Muju Young, you've been there. It's such a beautiful place, but it's in the middle of nowhere I have.
Speaker 3:never I've been invited. I was invited for the inauguration. I was one of the first hundred. I have never, I am proud to say, the furthest down I've gone is Kyunggyu or wherever the world championships were that one year Jeju. No, no, the other one, the one that was in the middle of nowhere. You were coaching that for the US. Still, it was the world championships, like 2000.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Kyunggyu, I guess.
Speaker 3:But I haven't been to. I have yet to be at Muju, Although I hear it's a beautiful five or six hour bus ride and that is the one four hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm, I'm okay with that. If I go there, I'm going to go when it's skiing, cause that's really what it's about. But I there are many ways to make money with Muju, if you could are many ways to make money with muju if you could, if you wanted to, but it's uh. God. God bless the koreans for building a 500 million dollar. Uh, ode to technical middle. It's beautiful, but it's in the middle of so is uh. So is the ark that they build somewhere in tennessee. They built a replica of the ark and it's in the middle of nowhere. You didn't know about this. Look it up on google. They built a noah's ark in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1:but, tj, let me ask you something because obviously there's a I mean about this. Look it up on Google they built a Noah's Ark in the middle of nowhere. Tj, let me ask you something, because obviously there's a, I mean this one has. I'm just going to go off the top of my head no Germany, no Turkey. No Italy. I think there's a couple French. No Iran, it's really you know. No Mexico.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of teams that aren't going. Obviously it looks like it's Korea, china, uzbekistan, kazakhstan, morocco, like those are the main big teams. Spain is there, but I'm curious because obviously there's a big contingent of Americans, but I don't know. Like I was thinking about this and I'm just going to say this, I'm going to throw it out there At what point. It's essentially an open, right, it's an open. You could have zero points as long as you got your registration in on time and you got in there. But it is a pretty good-sized tournament. It is a pretty big-level tournament. The chances of going there and winning is probably slim to none for most people. So my question is where do you balance? Because obviously, being in that environment, experience, is a good thing. But I have my own thoughts, but I want to hear you yours first. Where do you balance on going or not going? You know, investing your time and money there or investing your time and money somewhere else, based on your level?
Speaker 2:I, for me, me, I think it's I don't think that's where we should be right now, currently, to be honest with you, I know it's open, I know you can take, like you said, you can take who you want, you can, you know whatever process you want. I just think, with the points being offered at the president's cup, I'd want to go fresh into the president's cup personally me. I'd want to go fresh into the President's Cup personally Me. Personally, I'd want to go more fresh into the President's Cup just to have our guys find, yeah, because it's right afterwards. You know, at some point, like I said, you know, I said you got to be the best in the US, you got to be the best in the Pan Am region. Then you go and be the best in the world.
Speaker 2:And if this is our pipeline building, then why are we exposing our pipeline to a absurd level? Like again, maybe they all go win, anything can happen. It's the wide world of sports, whatever. But like that level is kind of tight. It is a lot of people. It is a. It is a, I mean, without all the countries you just named being there. You know where do we fall in that? Like I, we're like in that middle, we maybe best in the middle as far as result potential you know what.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:I think it turned into a little bit of a. I'm going to the Grand Prix. First of all. Going to the Grand Prix is pretty good, right, but now, hey, I'm in the Grand Prix Challenge, I'm going there. I think there's some athletes that I always use this.
Speaker 1:People always use the word experience and I think that's a horrible thing to say. Most of the time people tell you you need experience. They don't really understand, they have nothing to tell you. So I always say you have to have the right experience, because if I go, get smacked up five times in a row, I'm not getting the right experience. I've had a bad result, a bad it's not for me at all. If I go to a restaurant and I get bad service and bad food five times in a row, I'm not going back, I probably leave and I don't go to that restaurant anymore. And that could happen to some of our people. I think some of the athletes that have gone there you know God bless them for going and taking a bite at the apple. I give them that credit but you may have been probably better suited to go to two or three opens that are a little bit closer and maybe a little smaller field and maybe not such a deep field and you win a couple matches, get on the podium. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I just think that sometimes I think people need to think these things through a little bit more, versus just like oh, I'm at the Grand Prix Challenge, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's coaches. I heard the other day this coach said was talking about coaches and trainers, coaches and trainers, and he's like oh, you know, some people are good trainers and some people are good coaches. The first thing I was like what would you know about a good coach, a good trainer, number one, but number two, their thing was well, I coached at the World Championships and I'm like you coached at the World Championships and the athlete that you coached was from a little country that went 12-0, 12-0. So just because you went to the World Championships, just because you coached at the World Championships, makes you no authority on if you're a world championship level coach and if you can distinguish between a good trainer and a good coach, for that matter, how to develop an athlete. So I don't know. I just think that people probably could have invested their money a little wiser and had a better experience from a performance standpoint.
Speaker 1:Now I can do the flip side, maybe being in the environment and saying, wow, I got to see it with my own eyes, I got to feel the energy. Ok, fair enough, fair enough. That's one other way to look at it. But I'm excited about, like you said, there's a bunch of Koreans in each division, a bunch of Chinese I mean the Chinese are hit or miss for me Bunch of Russians. A bunch of Chinese I mean the Chinese are hit or miss for me A bunch of Russians, a bunch of Belarusians, a bunch of Uzbeks and Akatsuki. I think there's going to be some cool matches. Early, I wasn't so impressed with the Russians in the Grand Prix Challenge here, but I think the ones in Korea could be a little bit different, so it should be fun.
Speaker 2:I'll say that. I'll say, going back to that one, I think I was impressed with their ability or their level of gameplay a little bit. I don't think they were conditioned, I don't think they were maybe the A squad or like out there to win, but like they were doing some cool stuff as far as like controlling the matches, scoring early Obviously the Hogan's were strange and all that other stuff. We can go on, but I always think russia is always interesting. When it comes to tech window, you just never know what you're gonna get, and I think they'll get their guys primed and I think these are all good. Those are. These are the tournaments that they're putting their guys in right now. You know well, what?
Speaker 1:what I will say is you're right, they go out there and you could tell they know how to score. They're looking for certain things, like you said. Maybe someone's a little more physical and beats them, maybe somebody you know kind of stalls them out, but you could tell they know how to go about building their points and win matches, and you know. I think a better example is when they went to the President's Cup the European President's Cup, you know, this year and they were smoking. I mean, they had a 68 guy, nobody's seen before, and he walked through the entire field. He didn't go to the Grand Prix Challenge. Maybe he'll be at this Grand Prix Challenge in Korea, but, to your point, they are pretty interesting and they look like if they don't win or get deep into the field, you almost feel like it's only a matter of time. Right, it's coming next time.
Speaker 2:But all the countries you named for this competition are good countries.
Speaker 1:Everything is expensive, motherfucker.
Speaker 2:So I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I don't want to work, no more. I never have money in my wallet. All right, sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Again, it's always that we begin deep into it. I do, I do All right, sorry, I don't know. Well, yeah, again, it's always We've been getting deep into it, I do, I do.
Speaker 3:All right, let me stop sharing. Let me stop sharing, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, I think all the countries in that, In those divisions At this competition, are good countries. Like you said, I think there'll be some exciting fights.
Speaker 3:What's the name of the competition?
Speaker 2:It's the Grand Prix Challenge in Muju, basically the same thing that was in Charlotte. The one fight I do want to see, because I'm a firm believer in maybe this is the old school in me I definitely want to see a USA-Korea finals I think that's the one you want right In 80. I want to see a USA-Korea finals in 80. You know, of course it can happen, I 80. Of course it could happen. I think it would be an exciting match for me to watch. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we go right back to the. We're going to have tournaments back to back TJ, like you said. These guys, they start fighting, I believe, on Friday, saturday, our time, something like that 27th or 28th. It's a four-day tournament versus a three-day tournament, which is going to be a little longer. Most of those people are going to come straight back to the President's Cup. They're going to arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday. President's Cup is on Saturday.
Speaker 2:What four days? You said it's four days instead of three days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a four-day event.
Speaker 2:Up to four days.
Speaker 1:Yes, because it's 50 people. It's too many people. Normally regular is uh 36, I'll start with 32, so by adding the extra people they have to, it was too long so yeah, probably tv too, or like you know, hide it over there a little bit more, maybe korea, korea style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen, I'm excited, I I'm curious to see the moroccans and the uzbekistan athletes, because I think they, um, they just seem like they're on a trend coming up, so it should be interesting. And you know, a new thing, a new development uh, I don't know if I'm at liberty to tell you. You know, I think we talked about last time the french national team coach, uh rosendo. He left uh france and is moving to another team. He hasn't announced it yet, so I'm not going to say it. But then also Juan Antonio Ramos, who has his own. No, I don't want to say it because it's not my thing.
Speaker 3:But you just said it. You said it without saying it.
Speaker 1:No, he's leaving. It's already been announced publicly he's leaving, but they haven't said the team. So I don't want to say the team. But Ramos is, for the first time ever, is going to be coaching for the Spanish national team, which I think is kind of cool because he's coached for a lot of different individual countries and and things like that, because he has a club and coaches for them and he's done a great job for himself. But, yeah, he's going to his national team. His wife, I believe, is still on the staff, so that's kind of cool.
Speaker 1:That after, I think when is his last game was 2008. His last game was in beijing. So here we are. You know, 14 years later, 15 years later, that he's uh well, more than that, you know, 17 years later he's going to be coaching, you know, for his, his home country. So, um, congratulations to him. He's a great guy. Um, a lot of expectations, a lot of pressure for him to bring his level to already pretty successful programs. So I think you know, seeing him in the chair with, you know, some of these new Grand Prixs is going to be interesting for the world, very interesting.
Speaker 2:For sure he's a great coach. He's an energetic coach. He kind of you just never know. Sometimes, you know, we talk about willing an athlete to punch or willing an athlete to score. He is the king of creating a situation where all of a sudden his guy does something that should be done, but at the right time you're just like again, you know. So, like you said, congratulations to him. I'm always excited to see, you know, people like that kind of get back to like again. I'm a dreamer, but like to be able to coach in a national team for your country is something amazing.
Speaker 1:You know when I give Ramos credit for it because, yeah, one thing I do love about him is his passion Like it's not going to say my style to jump and go super crazy. I might lose control once in a while, but you know him, he's. He has his, his heart on his chest and his shoulder and, man, when things go good, he's like he's on the ground, he's like jumping, and when things go bad, he'd be, he'd be ripping those boys a new butthole man. He don't care, man, he's. He's yelling at the ring telling him to shut up. Like, what are you doing? I told you not to do that he's.
Speaker 1:I give him a lot of credit because you know what he is, who he is and, for better or worse, that's how he coaches and that's why he gets the most out of his people. You know what I mean. You can't deny his passion and his ability, like you said, to will people to win when they're probably down or not in the mood. So, yeah, congratulations to him. But it's going to be a great Grand Prix challenge. I don't know, maybe we won't be able to do it before then, but I'm going to go through the list, I'm going to try to pick some winners. It'll be hard. I'm down. It's going to be super hard.
Speaker 2:Maybe just go with some favorites?
Speaker 1:Yeah, obviously from America. It would be cool to see CJ in that environment, because I think he's going to overwhelm some of the Asian countries. I mean, we'll see if they can get to him with their endurance. We'll see some of these Uzbekistan and some of these people. I'm curious to see how people stand in front of him to see if they are able to withstand his pressure or not, because it could get ugly too. They could pick him off If they're not scoring a front-hand punch, are they?
Speaker 2:using the yard.
Speaker 1:I think so.
Speaker 3:that's a big weapon for him, you know so let me, let me ask you a question about front hand punch all his points for spinning and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Right, still so, so front front hand punch.
Speaker 3:right, you know there's a cover where your hand that's in front you. You switch your feet and you cover. Yeah, cross punch, yeah, so is that a front hand punch or a back hand punch? I?
Speaker 2:switch my feet. I haven't seen anybody throw a cross punch or a cover punch in like 27 and a half years. You want?
Speaker 3:to see it. No, no, I think it's great.
Speaker 2:It's the one.
Speaker 1:It would still be in the front hand, because if I go like this and I go here, no, no, you switch your feet right.
Speaker 3:So your foot. You're like this, right, but before you go, you go. Your foot switches, your hand becomes your, your front leg becomes your front leg, your back leg becomes your front leg Almost like a Superman punch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, your front leg becomes your back leg.
Speaker 1:I just don't know why we're telling people how to get punched when we can kick them out where we want. That shit don't work, Earl. I don't know what you're talking about, man. You're bringing up some old stuff, man.
Speaker 3:What about if I go like this, Not like that.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying I would love to see someone cover punch.
Speaker 1:Because I, because I think they go backside cover points. No, I think you still do that. I think you stood there, but no, but what tj's point is right? I just thought it was hilarious when they said first of all, I don't think the front end, the front end jab, you know, should, should be scoring, even though sometimes I see people hit heavy with it. I'd see way more times people throw bad, like hooking with it and whatever. But okay, wait a minute but is that?
Speaker 3:is that worse than a back hook kick to the body or a front hook kick to the body? Which scores?
Speaker 1:it's probably not young, but but my. But my point is you can't keep. That's like saying you can't kick with your front leg. You can kick the front leg, but we're not going to score. I can, I can front leg axe kick you in the face. I can, front leg hook kick you in the face. I can, front leg side kick you in the face. They can front leg hook kick you in the face. They can, front leg side kick you in the face, but we're not going to score because of the front leg. So you don't make a distinction between front leg and back leg. Why should you distinguish between front hand or back hand? It's just a weird concept to me. I just don't get it. But anyway, I mean they're not going to.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the brain trust at USA, Tiger at WT at USA.
Speaker 1:Tiger at WT, but check this out. At the junior Pan Ams they specifically said we're going to score front-hand punches if they score, if we want to. I'm like really. So the WT has said they're not going to, even though it's not in the rules anywhere. They just said we don't, but in another continent they will. I mean, it's just madness, craziness, weirdness, weirdness. I don't know.
Speaker 2:But, like I said, excited about this upcoming tournament, going to be up at 1, 2, 3 in the morning, watching as many matches as possible.
Speaker 3:You're not going.
Speaker 2:You didn't get a plane ticket. I don't get invited to those things. I don't have any athletes going. It's open for coaches. I saw some other coaches over there with some of their their, I guess, personal or home athletes kind of sort of doing just like they did charlotte. So it'll be. There's a lot of people going, though. Right, like you said, there's a lot of usa guys. We have what? Four or five almost per division. That's crazy, isn't it? That's crazy I think I think.
Speaker 2:So we got. We got a good number of people going. I don't know if it's four or five, there's a good number of people going. At least there are four. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is again.
Speaker 1:I mean TJ could have went, he could have took some of his personal athletes there, but again the investment. I'd rather save your money and go to President's Cup right afterwards and be healthy, but I don't know much, that's just me. So what?
Speaker 2:else what?
Speaker 1:are we going to finish up with we good, we good for today? Anything else I can think of Something else.
Speaker 3:Oh, he's got a football helmet on oh let's go Thursday, thursday.
Speaker 1:Who are they playing A high?
Speaker 3:school team.
Speaker 1:No, they're playing the Super Bowl champs. Hey, check this out.
Speaker 3:we know how that's gonna go that's the way you should wear your headphones, because you don't listen anyway.
Speaker 2:The eagles first too. It's gonna. It's gonna be ugly, but we in there we're gonna win the super bowl this year my, my, my, my, my name.
Speaker 3:my name is Bubba Bubba DJ. I got Dane.
Speaker 1:Bramage. After my delicious Vietnamese food I went back to my hotel and I said you know what? I'm going to get a beer. I sat down. Another couple sat next to me, a couple older people, I don't know. Everyone's talking. We're just having a banter. I don't know how we got on football. And then the guy said something and I said what's your team? He looked at me. He's got his hands crossed Me. Where am I at? I'm in San Francisco. He looks at me. He's like the Cowboys. I get up, give him a high five. I'm like how is that possible that you're a Cowboys fan in San Francisco? He's like all sense, all san francisco does is is imitate the cowboys or imitate anybody else. They always take the names and this and that they got nothing original. They got nothing original. I was like I was looking around, make sure I don't get hit.
Speaker 3:I hope, I hope, my, I hope my wife doesn't listen to the this podcast this long. His wife was listening to the.
Speaker 1:His wife was listening to the game on Saturday night. It's Saturday night, right, saturday night on the, or is it Friday? One of the nights I can't remember she was listening to the preseason game on the radio. I'm like man, she's diehard boy Locked it.
Speaker 2:That's cool, she loves football. Go Cowboys Week one. If we win this first game, we win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3:When was the last time the Cowboys won something?
Speaker 1:Hey, we should go, we should go. It's time to go. The 90s baby, the 90s Back to back, back to back.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's the 90s.
Speaker 3:Send us off, grandmaster, it's been a great as always, an inspirational moment. Look for this Shortly it will be up and we are out.