Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
When Athletes Shine and Leaders Throw Shade: Taekwondo's Power Dynamics
From the remote venue of Muju, Korea ("the middle of back-ass nowhere," as our hosts colorfully describe it), the Warehouse 15 podcast delivers an unfiltered analysis of the Grand Prix Challenge that combines technical breakdowns with candid commentary on the politics affecting taekwondo.
The spotlight shines brightest on two American performers - CJ Young securing gold in the welterweight division and 19-year-old Victor Rodriguez delivering the tournament's most impressive upset by defeating an Olympic gold medalist. Rodriguez's performance exemplifies the podcast's central theme: the sometimes painful gap between performance quality and desired results. Despite fighting "lights out," Rodriguez experienced a heartbreaking semifinal collapse that cost him a medal opportunity.
Beyond the competition itself, the hosts – all decorated Olympic medalists – address recent criticism directed at them by taekwondo organization leadership. With characteristic frankness, they challenge the propriety of high-ranking officials using their platforms for personal attacks rather than focusing on athlete development. "If you're a winner, you're a winner. If you're not, you're a whiner," becomes their unapologetic response to the situation.
The conversation shifts between detailed technical analysis (including officiating inconsistencies and strategic breakdowns) and broader reflections on what constitutes meaningful achievement in the sport. While tournament victories deserve celebration, the hosts maintain that Olympic success remains the ultimate measure of a program's effectiveness: "Let's celebrate an Olympic win. That's it. Win the Olympics."
As they look ahead to upcoming divisions and tournaments, the podcast offers both tactical insights for competitors and thoughtful perspective for fans seeking to understand the sport's complexities. Whether you're a dedicated practitioner or casual observer, this episode delivers the perfect blend of expert analysis and unvarnished opinion.
Join us next week as we continue our coverage of international taekwondo competitions and bring you more insights from those who've reached the pinnacle of the sport. Subscribe now to ensure you never miss an episode!
Sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry.
Speaker 2:We are back. This is the Warehouse 15. And as we always say, sorry, not sorry, and apparently today we're gonna have to kind of get into that a little bit, because we have somehow managed to ass burn some people, but I, you know again, I don't know why that is, but we'll, we'll get to that. How are you? I want to start with bronze TJ. That is a beautiful red shirt that makes your skin glow. You look beautiful today. I love that shirt. I love that shirt. How are you doing?
Speaker 3:today. I'm good. I'm good Chilling. Just had a couple classes this morning. I'm just sitting down, got a chance to watch some of the matches last night A little late last night, so I'm sure we'll get into some of that stuff?
Speaker 2:How's Mama? How's Mama Jennings doing?
Speaker 3:She, mama jennings doing she's good, she's good.
Speaker 2:They actually headed back home, so it's just me myself and I right now. Well, send her, send her my love and, uh, tell her I love her son. Does she have another son or just you?
Speaker 3:uh, just me?
Speaker 2:oh, okay, well, I love this son. I was gonna say I love your brother more, but all right, mr coach moreno, how are you today? What about my shirt? Oh, I love that. That is my fate. I that's a shirt I need to wear around. Unfortunately, I teach taekwondo in this town, so I can't be. You know, I can't always be who I want to be.
Speaker 3:In the words of the Rolling Stone.
Speaker 2:You can't always get what you want, but sometimes you can get what you need.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes For me, you know I had to wear this shirt today. It was an honor. We'll talk about it a little bit later. I'm good. Same thing, I watched the matches last night and early, early this morning. I was a little bit tired. So yeah, it was pretty cool, pretty good start to the Grand Prix Challenge. But I'm good, I'm excited. I know it was kind of a short turnaround we had one earlier this week because we missed last week but week and you know, because we missed last week.
Speaker 2:But we get back on our thursday schedules, so let's go. You could never have too much of a good thing, that's correct that's correct, that's the way it is.
Speaker 2:So you know, we don't have to. We could be doing, we could do these daily, because I definitely have something to say every day. I was on my way, on my way, as I told you, uh, earlier. I was on my way driving my children beautiful children to school and somebody decided to opine, as we say Not cupine but opine and so I kind of ignored the individual for 10 minutes or as long as I could, and then they just couldn't stop and at that point you get the horns, you mess with the bull, you get the horns, and so sometimes it sounds like today we're going to have to give the horns to some people. But I'm saying that as I light my incense, trying to peace and love myself a little bit, give myself some self-love and generosity and, like the Buddhists say, it's like a cloud in the sky it shall pass. But if you are something, let me show you my light.
Speaker 3:Look at the light.
Speaker 2:Look at the light, let the light, let the light. Look at the light, let the light. Now the smoke.
Speaker 1:Here's my Buddhist temple for today.
Speaker 2:That's it for today. Well, I started with that today. I started with that today All right, let's get started, gentlemen, let's go.
Speaker 1:So, tj, yesterday was the first day of the Grand Prix Challenge in Muju, korea, the middle of nowhere, and they started off.
Speaker 2:You know what Muju stands for, right.
Speaker 1:No, I don't.
Speaker 2:In the middle of back-ass, nowhere. That's what it means. That's what it literally translates in Korea. If you go to Korea and you say, oh, muju, they go. Oh, in the middle of nowhere, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, I'm sorry, that was probably definitely one of the longest bus rides from the airport to the actual venue I've ever taken in my entire life.
Speaker 2:Didn't you go on the Million man March? Weren't you on? Didn't you get to head down? You didn't head down into DC or up to DC wherever you're from. That's a long bus ride too.
Speaker 1:I think it was four hours, but I had to give actually a. So, coach Young, you remember Anna Kim? I don't know. Do you know who Anna Kim is? Tj, anna Kim was on the national team a long time ago. She was on the national team in 93 when you were coaching her. But Ryan Andercheck, he went there because one of his athletes was competing him and the coach, and so he went there and Anna hooked him up with like this super cool like privateousine type thing, like SUV. So it took him like two and a half hours and he got in that sucker. He was all laid back. I'm like that's pretty nice after a long you know flight from the stateside to Korea to get in something like that, versus slapping it on a bus for four and a half hours. So kudos to Anna, a shout out to you and to Grandmaster Ryan Anderchik and his son Vincy for a nice ride.
Speaker 2:I saw he was there. What was he doing there?
Speaker 1:One of his students were fighting. Oh nice, he fought today and then his son went to coach him, so all three of them were there. But anyway, it was minus 80, which is the welterweight, and minus 49, which is flyweight. So we can talk about the winners. We can talk about the winners. We can talk about you know the athletes, you know maybe some of the ones that we know. Unfortunately, in the 80, we didn't get the marquee, we got a version of it.
Speaker 3:We got a version of it. I'll take, I'll take. I know I got you, but I'll take. I mean, at least it was Korea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean for that side of it. But so let's get into the, we'll get into a little bit.
Speaker 1:So cj uh young, you know, cj won again he won a gold medal.
Speaker 2:Oh, he did win. Good for him, yep he uh he, I, he, who'd he fight?
Speaker 1:he listen he um. He beat korea in the final and oh, that's a great match, yeah I mean I want to talk about. I think his toughest match of the day was in the semifinal against the Brazilian. They went two rounds.
Speaker 1:I'm saying they went three rounds. Third round was back and forth. He was up by three, then it went four-three, then it went five-four, then it was just back and forth. Cj pulled it out and pulled ahead a little bit at the end and took that match and went into the finals against Korea. But we'll get to that match in a second.
Speaker 1:But we had some other athletes that fought a very big victory by none other than Victor Rodriguez. He's a new, young kid, I think he's 19 years old, 18 or 19. He's from the Fort Lauderdale area here. He's newly accepted and what do you say? And committed to North Carolina. And interestingly enough he was coached by his father, which I think is very significant, because in big events and tight matches you need somebody that can get you through. And I think, young, he beat the Olympic gold medalist in the quarterfinal Now, man, I can't take off any shine the Olympic gold medalist.
Speaker 1:I believe that was his first tournament since the Olympic Games, so almost two years, a year and a half. So he looked a little rusty even early on, but to his credit, victor won in two rounds, I mean, and it's a giant size difference. I mean, you remember the Olympic Games? He beat CJ. He was I'm not lying like this much taller and Victor managed to stay away. Victor managed to score often and he won the match. You know, anytime you can say you've been an Olympic gold medalist, whether it's at an Open or in your gym, you know you got to talk that one up as a big win, so you know. Kudos to him. I think it was amazing. I don't know, tj, you saw the fight Did you watch it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I watched it Definitely. I mean that's a big win on any stage, right, Big win, I think, more for an experience. I think more for an experience. I think he won what four? It was four matches. That was his fourth match that day. That was the quarterfinals. Third match the quarterfinals, the quarterfinals. Right, right, no, definitely a big match. I mean that's pretty cool for him to just step into the 80 category and get a chance at the Olympic champion at that level.
Speaker 1:You know, I know his match before the match, before he fought Chinese Taipei. It went three rounds and he got a back kick. It was a 4-4 match, 4-4 round, but the back kick won him based on superiority. So it's one of those things, man You're close to going out and then you beat the Olympic champ. Like how cool is that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think he scores, he spins well, I think he gets a lot of fours and fives. He'll throw it at the end and gets a lot of heavy contact towards the end of the matches, which is kind of crazy. You know, some of it goes off, some of it doesn't, but he'll always get some kind of heavy contact towards the end for big points.
Speaker 1:Listen, I told my wife there's nothing that I don't like about him, to be honest with you. He's a well-mann back leg. He can keep to the front leg. He can spin for real. He can spin with not a lot. He scored like two or three good punches. I'm talking good timing. There's a lot to like about him, to be honest with you. Just in the whole ball of wax, the way he carries himself and the way he's competing I mean you got to give it to him. And a heartbreaker, though in the semifinal, did. Though in the semifinal, did you watch the semifinal against Korea?
Speaker 3:I had to go back and watch it this morning.
Speaker 1:Bro, he wipes him the first round. I mean 17 to 5, 6. I mean, smacks him up Second round. He's up huge. I think he's up 10 points at one point 10-0 I think, if I'm not mistaken. But all I mean kind of fast forward. He's winning by seven points with like 24 seconds left and loses the match, loses the round. And so I mean the match should have been over, the round should have been over, the match should have been over. He's into the finals against CJ, but instead he loses that second round, goes into the third round and just comes apart.
Speaker 1:Actually he fought back, he was down big, he got a face kick, he got a spin, he got a calm jump. So it went three plus four, seven plus eight. He made up eight points right there. I think he lost by two or three, but it was kind of a heartbreaker because losing that match put him into the bronze medal match against the Brazilian guy who had lost to CJ in three rounds, and the Brazilian guy was just too much for him. You know, beat him pretty easily in two rounds. So, man, you have such a great day. I've talked about this many times and I'll use it right now A great performance. It wasn't the result that he wanted, because he didn't get a medal. I mean, for all this greatness he didn't get a medal. I mean, like I said, man, I'm hats off to the kid because he fought lights out but he didn't get a medal. You know what I'm saying. So this is a performance versus result that we can talk about, but really, in my opinion, super, super, job, super job.
Speaker 3:I agree. I think that I think that's that's like right on head the performance, the performance was good, he performed well, he performed again. These Grand Prix challenges are still under some level of light, you know what I mean. There's a lot of big countries, a lot of big coaches, big. You know. I would say that the athlete pulls a little bit like this, a little bit. But that athlete pulls a little bit, like this a little bit, but I mean as far as, as far as like still being a grand prix or a higher level tournament, to be out, to be able to go out there and perform, is always a good thing. You know, listen, I think some big matches for him today yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:I think the tunisia was a big match. Again. He's a little bit champion, whether he just his first fight or not. That's not. That's not victor's problem. Victor is out there just fighting whoever's in front of me, but I don't know, man, I mean let's talk about a little bit later. But I'm looking at these things. I mean there's supposed to be 50 people, there's 36, there's 14 people that didn't show up the olympic the guy that was had 38 yeah so the guy that was supposed supposedly the guy, the korean guy, didn't make weight.
Speaker 1:So I I mean it's just it's, when I'm looking at these draws I'm kind of like this looks nothing like more than an open. I mean it really does. I mean some opens in Europe are way deeper. I mean again no Iran, no Specs. I mean there's a lot of people that weren't there. So I mean again no shade, because it's still, like you said, the lights. How do you think that is? Though?
Speaker 3:you think it's just the timing of the tournaments or the significance of the tournaments, or the significance of the tournaments.
Speaker 1:I think it's significance. I think people are just kind of like you know what I'll get in by my point total into the Grand Prixs anyway. It's just I don't know. We kind of all bought into this like, oh man, grand Prix challenge, let me go, let me get there. But it's not that important of a tournament. It gives you some small points and gets you into one event if you win, but you have all these Opens and World Championships and Pan Ams that could get you into the Grand Prixs next year. So I don't know, I think it just got a little bit wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 3:Because we talked I liked it when it was outside of 70. Me too.
Speaker 1:But I mean this is a new system, it's a new two-year cycle, so I mean we'll know for the next time, you know, like don't rush to get there, you know. So, um, our rest of our other americans didn't do so well in the 80. They, you know, they lost their first match, some of the tough people, but hopefully it was good experience for them. Hopefully they, you know they check some boxes on their on the trip, um. But let's talk about cj. I mean, did you? You watch semiifinal and final? For sure, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw the semifinals and the finals. I saw some of the earlier ones too, but I mean again, like I said before this, I was hoping for the bigger showdown match in the finals, but he's able to score. He put a lot of points out there. He did a lot of good things throughout the day. I think I'm going to say Overall like. I said Go ahead no go.
Speaker 3:No, I think I always like the, whatever the level. I like the consistency of being able to kind of win those matches. I mean, I don't think they're the biggest matches in the world, but there's a lot of randoms in there too, and and sometimes that's just as difficult as having someone with a name. But I think at the end of the day, like we said, I mean he won the gold medal. He fought well, had his shots, had his moments and did a lot of big things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen again, you can only fight who's in front of you. And they tried to. You know, I think he just walked through everybody. The only match was any difficulty In the Korean match in the final he lost the first round but it was kind of like I remember it was 5-3.
Speaker 1:They carded, they didn't get it, and then he was pushing and the Korean guy hit him and hit him. It went 10-4, like real fast. But then the second round, cj scored early and beat him pretty easy. And then the third round, he just point-gapped him. The Korean, you could tell, was out of gas. He just said you know, if you don't have a lead against CJ, it's hard to come from behind for most people, and especially that Korean, specifically that Korean who wasn't a go-getter. He was more of a counter fighter, kind of a sneaky fighter. So of course, so the Korean guy that we wanted to see, he's going to put his head down and take it to CJ. So that's a different matchup.
Speaker 1:But this guy, he had no business. I mean, first of all he had no business beating Victor. When I saw that, I'm like this guy's not going to give any resistance to CJ, cj's going to overwhelm him and I don't know if the Korean crowd was getting on CJ a little bit, but when he won he roared at him. He was like screaming at him. So I thought that was kind of funny. But you know, again, hats off to CJ. He did what he had to do. He came and got the gold medal. Want to talk?
Speaker 3:about the 49ers. Yeah, you can start 49. They only had 37. They only had 37. Yeah. So out of the 50, they ended up at 37. Both of the USA girls were on the same side, so Maya was on the same side as Sophie. I was able to watch that one before I left the gym. Last night I watched Maya's first match. Pretty much ran through the first girl pretty easy, too strong for her. I saw Sophia dropped a match to what was the girl's name? Israel. Was it Israel? Israel? Yeah, a little shorter girl. That was a weird match, huh.
Speaker 1:Well, so I'm going to listen. We're going to talk about some things later. I try not to look. I know when you're there in the moment there's a lot of weird things. But I saw a lot of coaches doing video review early in the first round and I know you got to trust your athlete and stuff like that. But we know how important these headshots are, especially late. So, for example, I know a USA coach carded something really early in the first round with Sophia and the score was 0-0. Got denied that card and Murphy's Law fast forward. She wins that round easy. She loses round two. She wins that round easy. She loses round two. She goes around three. She's losing. She puts on a, an attack at the end and I saw two face kicks, pretty good ones at the end yeah, but no card.
Speaker 1:So I'm kind of like man, why do you? Why would you waste that card so early? But I'm gonna say this did you notice the referee's doing a lot of eight counts at the end of rounds and stuff like that? So young, let's say you lose your video replay card. I lost it in the first round. I don't have a second. And third, if a referee sees a hard shot and they count an eight count and there's no points on the board, they can play their own card. So they kind of use it to protect if you don't have a card. But they were doing that a lot.
Speaker 3:What about the body shots, though? I thought that one in the final with the back kick to the body. They eight-counted it too. So is that for the same reason? Probably? I don't know. I mean, it wouldn't be, because that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I mean, I guess if you eight-counted it because you thought the guy got hurt but that's what my? I saw a couple of face shots that were nothing and didn't go off and the referee started counting. If he didn't count, that guy doesn't get—actually it happened with CJ in one match against Korea. Cj lost his card and so he got popped in the head there and the referee starts counting and so then by rule, he's got to play his card. They saw it. I mean the right thing happened. He got kicked in the face. The protector didn't score. But my point is he arbitrarily decided to count. It wasn't a smack where the kid was in trouble, so I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah but, like I said, I mean even in that, when you look at, like even in the Sophia match I think we talked about it on the previous one, about the whole when they take the coaching card away for the headshot and stuff like that, it's going to be insane, because I mean some of the ones that they carded for and then some of the ones they didn't card for, it's the same thing, yeah, yeah, because I think you can card for one of the ones at the end of the match if you're, if you're, if you're playing by that rule sure, I feel like it started happening with that eight count stuff later in the day you're right, you're right, you're right, they didn't do it.
Speaker 1:She was number seven or whatever. But listen, that girl was this big. She was this big. She has no reason to lose that match. That's a drop match, you know. I mean, she should have went one round further, you know, maya. Well, actually, let me go back. First, we also had another flyweight that didn't make weight by 0.2 or 0.3 and didn't even attempt the second try. So that's a little bit of a that kind of sucks for the country that you know, someone goes all the way over there and doesn't make weight.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that says, but Maya, first match was pretty easy against Morocco. Second match was against a Russian, and it was. It went three rounds and it was like seven, seven or six, six, and the referee did a card and the girl fell down. Oh, that's what it was. It was. Maya was winning six to five and the girl with a second left kicks underneath, scores and falls. So she won seven, six.
Speaker 1:But then the referee carded to see if she fell while there was still time on the clock, and she did so. The referee carded to see if she fell while there was still time on the clock, and she did so the referee uh gave her a calm john. It was six, six and she won by superiority. So that was a close second round. And then there's that girl from constant. It's kind of like her I don't want to say kryptonite, but they fought twice now and it was a close fight. I mean each round was close the first two, but then the last round the girl won 13 to 1. So it was a little bit. I mean, each round was close the first two, but then the last round the girl won 13 to 1, so it was a little bit tough for her. So she went out in the quarterfinal.
Speaker 1:I mean not a bad day, but I think that third round was a little tough to swallow.
Speaker 3:I think it was a little bit better, I think, at the start of the third round. I think it kind of got out of round, I think it got out of control. You know what I mean, right from the beginning, early, and then you're having to do things and force things. That Kazakhstan girl is pretty good. She's long. Did it go three rounds in Charlotte or no?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. I think she calmed down, I think, if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong, but I think she comes under all in one round to get to win the round. I can't remember.
Speaker 3:I'll have to go back and watch it. But yeah, for me I think, better, better in front of that Khalid Stang girl anyways, I mean, that was one of those little matchups that kind of is going to be in front of your face a lot often, probably because that girl's pretty young too as well, and she's probably going to be at a lot of the bigger events, along with the world championships and everything like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen again, it's hard. I mean it's bright lights, like you said, it's a big thing. First of all, how about that arena? You saw the young. They had these giant screens in the back. I mean they got to be 20 by 30. I mean they're giant and so everybody can see it. It was actually. I mean, it doesn't surprise me. Korea does a big. You know they did a big. So that was pretty, pretty, damn cool. But again, I think, a solid day for the men, you know for the two of the two of the American guys, and I'm just going to say I don't know what I'd say about the women. I mean average. Do I say about the women? I mean average. I mean it was okay, it wasn't uh, a total loss, you know, for for maya whatsoever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to see both of them get deeper, though I think they would have had a quarter final. They had fight each other in a round of. Yeah, they would have fought each other in the quarterfinals. Wow, that was. They all went out to the quarters, yeah, yeah, I wanted to see them go because that would have been a good kind of quarterfinal match to send someone into the semifinals, you know.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. So, no, because didn't she lose the quarterfinal?
Speaker 3:Who.
Speaker 1:Maya Maya made the quarterfinal.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm saying, if they both would have got through, they would have fought each other in the quarterfinal, in the semi Quarters, quarterfinals.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at the bracket. Put them in the quarterfinals. I'm looking at the bracket, so israel from the top.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure I gotta go back and watch I'm not sure they would have fought each other quarterfinals well, it would have to be, israel had to fight kazdan, kazdan beat israel and then okay, well, yeah, that would have been.
Speaker 1:Listen. I think it was a fortunate draw too. We had some pretty good draws, you know right now, but I just didn't see any big hitters in there. I mean, I look we can fast forward to tomorrow. Tomorrow is men's 68, which is your division, my favorite division to watch, and women's heavy. And when I look at 68, I'm just like the number one seed is from Burkina Faso, right?
Speaker 1:He's like number he was at olympic games too like number seven or eight in the world. I'm just kind of like I don't know, I mean I've never. That's pretty, it's not. Yeah, you don't usually yes yeah division.
Speaker 3:It's always, uh, you know, korean or someone like a little bit bigger top russian. Jordan, yeah, Iran someone.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I'm excited about 68.
Speaker 3:I'm always excited about 68. I'll definitely be up watching those when they start and, kind of finishing this, I'll probably be up all night. To be honest with you, I think those are always good matches, even if sometimes, when the ranking is a little bit low, you get some good matchups and good matches early.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think. Think some of the Koreans will probably be pretty decent, you know a couple. Again, we have a couple good draws in there for tomorrow, so hopefully people can make the best of it, you know I mean, and hopefully they treat it like an open. Because that's what, when I'm looking at this, that's all it is. I don't see anything special going on there. Looking at this, that's all it is. I don't see any anything special going on. There's always going to be a tester here or there in the quarterfinals, but I don't see anything where you're kind of like oh my god, I gotta go through the gauntlet. Not at all. That might come at worlds, but in this event not. I'm not, I'm not seeing anything special, you know, at all.
Speaker 3:So it's gonna be interesting. Worlds is gonna be a big, I think it's gonna be a big one simply for that reason, I think. I mean, I think all these countries are really picking and choosing where they go and who they fight where and how much energy they invest into those certain events. So it's going to be interesting to see you know who's primed and fresh for the world championships or or what. Who shows up to the world championships in most, I mean, it'll be, I think, a good mix of younger, new guys and some of the veterans back for the deeper tournaments, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to make a little prediction and stuff, because our kid from Brazil, he won the Pan Am Games last week. He's fighting here. He traveled straight here. He's going to go to President's Cup next week, so he's got three in a row. Big kid, you know, 20 years old, made it to the Olympic Games already Super talented. He's beat Korea. He beat CJ on a number of occasions.
Speaker 1:He lost to CJ here, but I really saw something him stepping up against these other European countries, like where you could tell he's getting comfortable with them. And when I watched him and CJ fight, fight, I see a mutual respect. But he's bigger, he's stronger, he's longer. I think that I don't know that his 100, his confidence, is at 100 yet. But when he gets there, I'm just gonna say I think the world needs to watch out. I'm gonna put that pressure on him and our program. That I think is going to be something kind of special when he really understands how dude he's a big, big man. And I said this to him a long time ago when he first started fighting CJ I'm like you're the bigger man, you're bigger, you're stronger. You have to make him carry the weight and I see when CJ fights almost everybody else, he is the rocket, he's the go-getter, he goes.
Speaker 1:But when he fights with Enrique, he sits there and he wants it slow, he wants it point by point, he wants it clean and he can be a little bit more successful. So we're going to make some adjustments there. But I'm going to say, watch out for that. No, I'm sure they're going to have a good chance of fighting next week too, because it could be him and CJ in the finals again at the President's Cup, I think. In any case, they have to go through Chile, through Joaquin Joaquin Is his name? Joaquin Churchill? Yeah, he's going to have to go through Churchill from Chile. I'm sure they're going to fight in the semis. So that's always a tough match as well, but keep an eye out for that match.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it'll get a little thick at President's Cup. I think It'll be good if we have all the strong Pan Am countries in the room again time and then we got to see who shows up and who's. You know who's, you know who's there I think 80 is not that big.
Speaker 1:I think there's probably like 20 people or something like that, so it's not that big. But but so look, I leave people alone. I'm a nice guy, but uh, someone through the grapevine sends me something this morning you know talking about. You know talking about. You know good coaches, coach. And if they can't, they do podcasts. What I mean? I don't know why people don't stay in their lane and then and then, hence, you know, you know being referred to. I can only guess it's us, because they say Moe, larry and Curly. So I guess that's our new name. Guys.
Speaker 2:Which one am I?
Speaker 1:You're the best looking one.
Speaker 2:Ooh, I don't know, that's a tough. Maybe that's a tough. Well, you know I kind of laugh. You know I don't like to. Well, I don't mind. I don't like to talk about the underprivileged or the uninitiated or the non-result people, so I can't really say anything. What I can say is if you count up the amount of Olympic experiences and medals on this podcast, it pretty much surpasses the entire USA's production for the past X amount of years under the current leadership. And I saw that I don't really pay attention because they're they don't make it as far. I don't pay attention to ankle biters and pillow biters and um, there's two of those over there, but um, yeah, but that's a different story.
Speaker 2:But the um, the individual that spoke, you know one of the things you do when you're a CEO or you're a high-level person in any organization. The first thing your board does is it tells you what not to do, and what it tells you to do is act. Like Coach Moreno said, act if you've been somewhere before and you don't really get involved in the, in that kind of stuff, because your job is to portray the band properly and portray the brand properly, and the individual that commented is in a position where his role is to be the leader of the organization and carry himself with an ethical and moral responsibility and not use the voice of the platform of the membership as his personal platform. So he doesn't. He lost his rights to comment on anything when he took the job as CEO. But, more importantly, he was a public relations guy, albeit a bad one, because USA didn't make any money when he was in that role and he was the only one left in the room when they got rid of all the corrupt people. So they kind of left him in the room and he's been there ever since because the board is recalcitrant and unable to do its job and responsibility.
Speaker 2:But just to speak clearly about it, um, the individual that also chimes in is the father, I think, the middle finger guy, of the middle finger coach, and I can't remember his name, guntry or one of those English names, guftav or Goofy I can't remember his name, but he seems to chime in and both of them kind of self-masturbatory, participate with each other in this little back and forth, which they should do offline. If they have the need to pleasure themselves, they should do it offline, and if they get diarrhea of the mouth, that should happen offline. But let me be clear, while we're talking you saw me kind of nodding off and that's because I was actually watching the final at the grand prix that they're celebrating and I didn't see any taekwondo yet. So I kind of dozed off because I saw one of those little sissy hook kicks to the body and both of the players kind of suck.
Speaker 2:But it is three years from the Olympic Games and you know I'm hopeful that I don't like to, as they say, throw shade on any individual athlete, especially this far out from the Games, and I wish them the best. And I haven't seen any capoeira yet in the ring, so I'm happy about that. But I also haven't seen any taekwondo as well. I guess the question for the ceo of that organization, who will remain nameless, at least for me, is I don't know why he wastes time listening to our podcast he loves our podcast.
Speaker 2:Come on, man, but he should he should love it, but I mean it's because we can help him, but I'm still waiting for the call, I can fix their non-performance in a minute.
Speaker 2:I can fix their organization in two minutes, but unfortunately it would start with the firing of three of the people at the top, maybe four, or deeper than that, and then really getting an athlete program. That kind of works. I will simply say this though Thank you for noticing us, and let's do the medal count again. On this podcast we got a gold, silver and bronze medalist, and your coach doesn't have that. Your coach hasn't coached anybody that has that. You haven't had any of them, and men haven't performed since tj performed.
Speaker 2:So, like we said before, sorry, but not sorry. If you're fat, you're fat. You ain't morbidly obese, you're fat. So in your particular case, if you're a winner, you're a winner, if you're not, you're a whiner. So you're a wiener and a whiner and just keep it up because it's doing well for you. But spend some of that money in the bank that you saved by moving to uh, where did you guys move again? Kazakhstan, or in the woods, or whatever. Spend some of that money on our young and up and coming athletes so we can start getting some performance they are there and uh, stop celebrating.
Speaker 2:Stop celebrating your momentary wins at a tournament that didn't matter. Let's celebrate an Olympic win. Let's celebrate an Olympic win At the end of the day. Let me reiterate I looked up the USAT's mission and goals and it's to inspire, not conspire, americans to make the medal podium. And the way you do that is win the Olympics. That's it Win the Olympics.
Speaker 1:Listen again. It's kind of funny because, listen, you had a good moment, come on, you have something good happen. Celebrate it Well, yeah, like we mean nothing to you, we're nothing to you Like. Why throw the shot out there? But again, I don't know, but I'm feeling a little bullied, you know. I don't know if I have to report it.
Speaker 2:I do. I feel bullied. I got to call SafeSport.
Speaker 1:Internet bullied. I feel a little bit I'm getting sad. I'm getting sad right now. No, I don't follow those people at all, but it was just again. It was sent to me this morning Like can you believe these people? And kind of what you said, young, they actually reiterate what you said. You're in this position. You're in that position. Why are you making? Look, if I'm the head of an organization, maybe I can't sit here and have this conversation Right. Maybe I can't talk about other things, because I have a responsibility and a fiduciary responsibility to everybody to treat everybody equal. But no, I'm an individual, I'm a guy sitting in my house. So for that, I just think it's funny that they said it again. I didn't see it. It was sent to me, it was screenshotted. Thank you, Sorry, not sorry. I'm happy you think about me. I'm happy when you go to sleep, you think about me, happy. You worry about what I think about you. Obviously I'm a little more important to you. Sorry, TJ Is good Is good.
Speaker 2:Is good for us Is good for us. Still homeless in the UK, did he actually?
Speaker 3:get out.
Speaker 2:Is he out of the projects or where they call that I can't what they call that the public housing they live in? There's a, there's a word for it, but the good throw, get a, get a house. Yet or is he still uh, podcasting or or commenting from the from, from a stool in a pub?
Speaker 3:no, I mean like, honestly, I'm not too shocked. It's, I mean, go, let's go back to the olympic games, when they, you know, had the whole fish and chips thing after you know, anastasia winstead gold medal, and we use that as a moment to take a shot at someone also on this podcast Misplaced, I mean. I think every time that one of the individuals on the team does something well, they find a way to make it a little messy or a little like ha, I got them, you got them. The problem is they don't know who's on their team and who's not. It has to do with you guys or the organization in them, like the kids are the ones supposed to be winning. The kids are the ones that are putting it on the line.
Speaker 3:So it's just such a funny moment that these guys choose to go ah, look at us, look at you, what we're winning? Tournaments with the athlete we're supposed to win tournaments with. These are supposed to win those tournaments. It's a Grand Prix challenge. This is a. He's a silver medalist at the world championships. These aren't. These aren't big tournaments.
Speaker 3:But and even in that moment, obviously for an athlete to win consistently at any level is cool, but for them to take that chance to make an opportunity out of it for them to I don't know backlash or you know make fun or say like I don't know was it mo curly and whoever the other one's name is, and, and you know, coaches that can't coach or do a podcast, like it's such a weird moment. Yeah, it's such a weird moment, I know. We sit on a podcast and we talk about the organization, we talk about the training situation, we talk about the things like that, because we're allowed to sit here and talk about those things, because those are things that A some of us are involved in, b we have athletes, but also C they're supposed to be the national governing body, not us. It's just a funny moment that every time their guy does well.
Speaker 1:Well said. First of all, they take a shot. I think it's well said. I mean, yeah, I think everything said is right on. And you know, I would add this, like you know, when we're talking okay, these are our opinions. There's some facts, this happened, this happened, this didn't happen, that's a fact. And then sometimes there's some um, there's some, there's some opinions. We think you should do more of this, we less of this. Sorry, sorry, but but it's funny, like when you take like a personal shot, like oh, you can't coach, he'll go do a podcast or more. More leary and curly dude, there's a lot you guys want to crack. I make both of you guys cry in a crack session, yep.
Speaker 1:I'll make you run home and cry if I start talking about you, your mama, your wife, your kids, your dress, your hair, your teeth, your skinny body. If you want to crack, I will send you home quick. Any of you fools, and so it's funny when they take a couple personal shots.
Speaker 2:The sword. You know I don't like. I said I don't suffer. God bless America because I'm studying Buddhism and so, like a cloud in the sky, you know, cloud in the sky I let these things pass.
Speaker 3:You know these guys are a cloud in the sky.
Speaker 2:But I can say it in a way Sorry, not sorry, maybe if I say it in the proper accent, I really can't figure out if the guy is Australian or English and I apologize to all my English friends and brothers, but at the end of the day it's hard going through life. It must be hard going through life, I think you'll. It must be hard going through life.
Speaker 1:I think you'll see my dress next time. Being them, being them, being them.
Speaker 2:So you know it's hard being. I don't understand what that feels like. I've spent my entire life trying to achieve things and win things so that I can actually sit in a certain space. I try to become, I try to get as much education as I can, as much experience, and as a result of that I get to be who I am. On the other side, it must be hard being the other guy that didn't ever win anything. So I I always try to be nice because we got to be generous, you got to remember when you underachieve. You know that's a hard thing to do, to go through life feeling like that. So I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to be a bully.
Speaker 2:It would just be too easy, being who I am, to be able to be a bully of these individuals who every time something happens, that kind of tugs at their insecurity of not performing. They need to say something and it usually, if it's an athlete, it manifests itself in the way they dress, what they say, what they put on TikTok. If it's a coach, it manifests itself in the one time an athlete under their umbrella does anything. See, I'm still good. And then, if you're the CEO of an organization, it seems. Apparently, in this situation he didn't get sent to CEO school, which rule number one is don't speak Just do your job.
Speaker 1:Let's let it go. I mean, it's just let's move on.
Speaker 2:But sorry, not sorry. Yeah, sorry, I spent too much time on that Pip and all that.
Speaker 1:CJ, let's talk about oh, oh, oh, oh, oh oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, ohes though, Okay, okay okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maroon.
Speaker 1:It's not that.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about some matchups tomorrow in 68.
Speaker 2:But, honestly no, before we move on, if I doze off, it's because I'm actually watching the fight. There was no, taekwondo, that happened, but that's another story. But go ahead.
Speaker 1:Let's look at tomorrow. So it's weird Like, for example, you got this kid, Matthew Howell from GB. That's ranked number four. You got Burkina Faso is ranked number one, you got.
Speaker 3:I thought that kid was winning a lot, though that's what I'm saying. I thought that Matthew Hawkins was winning a lot, not as much as you think.
Speaker 1:Oh, the Thailand kid on the bottom is pretty good, but anyway so I mean, have you guys seen that Thailand school?
Speaker 2:that's always on the internet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. What's the deal with those guys?
Speaker 2:Are they in tournaments?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's got a lot of kids in cadet and junior national teams and a couple of kids that go up to the senior teams, but they have a very good. Obviously that's a factory man. He's amazing, he's super good. Where is he? In Thailand, in Thailand.
Speaker 2:Thailand's a big place In Thailand. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know. So, DJ, we have like some American kids going like in China or TRT. What's TR? What's CRT?
Speaker 3:Is it Trinidad and Tobago? No.
Speaker 1:No, because his name is Mahmoud Al-Hussein.
Speaker 2:God bless you what.
Speaker 3:Did you? Sneeze, I don't know what side of the bracket are you looking at?
Speaker 1:It's on the second side I think I'm curious about, like the two French boys, syrian and Suleiman, who had to fight in the quarterfinals Words that should never come out of your mouth if you're CEO of anything.
Speaker 2:I'm curious about two French boys. All right, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, kofani fights a Russian first match. My Brazil boy fights. He's got a bye, so he fights a winner of two guys. It's going to be some good matches tomorrow, man. Some good matches, I mean, like you said, a lot of unknowns. What is TRT? They all have, like Arabic names Hadi, taranavupur, what is TRT? I'm going to Google that young. What is?
Speaker 2:it TRT, trt. Hold on a second. Let me get my Google going.
Speaker 1:Women's heavyweights got some big hitters. They got the Olympic champion.
Speaker 2:What country is TRT it?
Speaker 1:was back in the day I was supposed to be here. They must have got a passport or visa or something like that I saw one little girl.
Speaker 3:I thought they were definitely registered, right.
Speaker 1:They were. It turned out to be a little.
Speaker 2:Turkish Turkey no I know it is.
Speaker 1:It's some island. It's some island that those Russians use and Iranians use. I remember that Because a couple of those Russians were due there, CRT yeah but tomorrow will be good.
Speaker 3:I'll definitely. I'm always excited for 68. I'm starting to like, like you said, the number one girl from France. They're always like watching her fight and stuff like that. So it'll be a lot of good matches tomorrow, for sure.
Speaker 1:Any picks to win Not really anyway, picks to win?
Speaker 3:um, not really 68 is kind of sporadic man testosterone replacement therapy that's right TRT that's funny. Who do you got for 68?
Speaker 1:man, I mean I'm gonna let me, let me open it up real fast again oh my god, I can't figure out, I'm gonna go side to side. Let's do this. Let's do this sorry what trt no no I'm looking for on the side one dude. I feel like one of these korean guys or these russian dudes are gonna get through.
Speaker 3:Let's see I always like watching them fight early. I think I think I like I like the when they fight early. I mean they don't fight early here because they're mostly unranked, but you got 201 Russia Um Platina's on that side. I think I don't know. It's going to be good Our side with where Michael is and where I think Michael and Diego are on the same little block.
Speaker 1:I think in the one quarterfinal it's going to be Thailand and Philemon from France on the bottom bracket of the second side. Top bracket has a chance, not Diego, no way, you know the Uzbekistan guy in match 303?
Speaker 3:303.
Speaker 1:I do not. I have to see his face. That's actually a pretty good draw up there too. Is that up? Oh, that goes down. Why does it go down? I was saying, china, man, that's a good quarterfinal, to get to the quarterfinals for usa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gonna be tough I don't really have a prediction because there's too many unknowns, but I mean I don't want to just go oh this country because historically I think this country is pretty good, because we see that to not be the case in these type of events Normally. For example, if let's just say any Iran is, a Iranian is in 63 at the world championships, I'm like he must be pretty decent If I got to pick him over Poland, I pick Iran, if I don't know the names, just because historically speaking. But in these, look at our, our Americans, we have four or five deep. You know there's some people that I mean they're, they're, they're just starting out, you know. So you can't put them in in the realm of Mark Lopez, terrence Jennings, you know stuff like that. You know people that have been historically good.
Speaker 1:So it's another night. You know we start tonight at eight o'clock. At night, again, it'll be all morning. You know, by the time this thing finishes, on the weekend we'll already be in Peru getting ready for the President's Cup. So there's going to be a lot of things happening. I just you know it's a short week for us. So congratulations to everyone that you know is about to fight. I know you guys will do. Well, I'm pulling for, of course, my Brazil athletes. We didn't take many people here, we took like five, so that's why we sent two coaches. No need for me to be there, but I'll be in Peru with the team and, of course, all of you guys, so it'll be a lot of fun. It'll be a lot of fun, get some Pisco Sours.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Go to Machu Picchu I wish have you been you ever been. I went to peru. We've been to peru right, but um I got I got injured in peru, still won a gold medal. I taped up my knee and beat puerto rico in the final because I refused to, and then the next day I got the worst case of food poisoning I ever got from drinking pisco sours. I didn't go to machu picchu because it was like a 200 hour.
Speaker 3:So basically, you just tried to poison us. What's that? So basically, you just tried to poison us. You're like I got sick after these green clothes.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, don't drink the water, don't drink the water, don't drink the ice, even if you're in a hotel. But I had won and I decided to celebrate, and the person who gave me the medal was Miss Ecuador. The person who gave me the medal was Miss Ecuador, and so I had a pleasant evening.
Speaker 1:With Miss.
Speaker 2:Ecuador in Peru. Miss Ecuador, yeah, she was in. I don't know why she was in Peru. She was the one giving out the medals Beautiful girl, I still have a picture of her. And we ended up hanging out that night and a couple of my teammates were Miss Peru and Miss Ecuador. It was before I was married. It was an interesting evening and I got the worst case of food poisoning, in addition to tearing my. The guy from Peru need me in my knee because he was frustrated and tore my medial collateral ligament, compress my lateral lateral Dude. It was horrible. And then I was all taped up and had to fight two more matches and won and won, because I'm not a. I wasn't a sissy. It's back when men were fighting and men were doing men's stuff, we didn't cry.
Speaker 1:Two funny stories Real fast I'll give From that event. This is back in 1988.
Speaker 2:Funnier than this, funnier than this, go ahead Two things fast.
Speaker 1:I'll give from that event. This is back in 1988. Funnier than this, funnier than this. Go ahead two things. I, I go to fight, I come off the olympic games. I don't even know anybody in the pan american region oh, that's right, I never fought I never fought in the pan america.
Speaker 1:I went straight to the olympics. I get a medal at the olympics. I come back. I'm kind of somebody, but I didn't know that Mexico and Venezuela were good. So anyway, I beat those guys, but I didn't have like a great performance my first match. And so the guy was like the coach I won't say his name because I really love him. He's like he comes back. I come back at the first round. He looks at me. Come back at the second round. He's like not so good. Olympics, you were much better. This not so good. So I get to a like a quarterfinal match against dominican republic. I, I, I fight really good the first round. We're sitting here talking. I go, I'm like, I'm like that was better, that's better. He looked at me. We're talking. All of a sudden we go, I look down, we both look up, a bird went past and shit on the floor like right there. We both were like what the heck? So I knocked the guy out. I come back to the coach and I'm like is that, is that good enough for you?
Speaker 2:because I was like mad that he was criticizing me it was an open air, was an open air stadium, but it's funny but the the touching story.
Speaker 1:It's about my senior right here. We were there and some dude didn't have shoes and he asked Herb something. I don't know what he asked him because I didn't say it. But Herb took off his shoes, gave the man his shoes and walked back to the hotel without shoes Not Taekwondo shoes, not chancletletas, not flip-flops, no crocs, because there was no crocs barefoot and I saw that. Give the the shoes off his feet to some guy that needed him. I'll never forget it. So I always say and kind words no, you didn't.
Speaker 1:You've done things like I know you get. Everyone thinks that you're a hard ass and you're mean and stuff like that. But you do so much kind stuff for people that, no, never and you never ask and stuff like that. But you do so much kind stuff for people that, no, never and you never ask for you know anything else. You've done a million things for me personally, so that was just one story that I remember, so it's kind of cool you're a kite.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the kind kind words we have. You know, the, the reason you and I've been friends for so many years is we don't good friends don't say anything, they, they just do what's necessary. And I think you have to enjoy and be gracious when you have good things go on in your life. And so Peru, you know Peru, ecuador, those countries, especially back then, they were struggling and probably still struggle now. So we've had a yeah, anyway, we have a, we've been fortunate in it and our friendship has been fortunate and and that's why the three of us get on so well. But yeah, coaches back then were funny. Yeah, I would say stuff, you know.
Speaker 1:I liked the guy. You know, the guy was a super, super guy. He turned out to be who was itunky?
Speaker 2:Chung oh, he's a good man, he's one of my favorite. You know, if you can't have a great coach in your chair meaning technically adept, like Dr Kaepner, which was one of my favorite coaches then I'd have a positive guy like him you know most of the coaches that sat in our chairs.
Speaker 2:They would sit there and look at us and you know just whatever. And then I was always on those teams. I was the guy. That was because I was captain and I was the guy. They would have hold the water before they had trainers, so I'd be next to the coach when he was coaching some of the athletes, and so my favorite was a legend, you know real deal, tang kum park.
Speaker 2:And he's looking at me and one of our heavyweights is fighting and he's like this stupid fighter, stupid fighter. Look look at this stupid fighter. And so he kept calling him stupid and then, when he came back to the chair, he's like why are you stupid fighter? You know like, yeah, maybe a little more information would help him not be so stupid.
Speaker 2:But, he was one of my favorite coaches. You know why did he do that? I go. You know, I'm thinking, sir, I'm standing right next to you. I have no idea. Like I don't have any more information than you.
Speaker 1:So you know, but he was at least good. All the trips you were on, all the trips you were on I mean not your own coaches and stuff like that Did you went on some trips with some other coaches, like who was like someone like your favorite, someone that I don't know they were good for you, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:I know who his favorite head of team was. I would say like speaking of, like you know, not necessarily giving you the technical aspect, but kind of being able to get into your head and make you go. The first year I got second place at the team trials for our Pan Am Championships and they sent that team to Korea for the Korean Open and Mark Williams coached me, coach.
Speaker 1:Mark.
Speaker 3:Williams coached me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we went through four matches that day I think. The second match, we beat Korea. Second or third match, we beat Korea and we're in the finals and we, you know he had some choice words for me before I walked out, but he was always. He never told you kick with your left, kick with your right, but he would say something like close to what you were talking about, just something that kind of put you in this headspace. You're like oh yeah, that's what we're doing, let's go. You know I can't share the words that he used. It was very, very, very choice words but in that moment it worked well, just to kind of get me going and get me back into those big moments. So I enjoyed that experience being with him and traveling and stuff like that. Very nice guy too. Same thing, that same trip. He climbed up the pole and cut off the flags for the tournament.
Speaker 1:That was the thing. That was the thing back in the day to get those banners and stuff like that. Have it up in your school, those banners and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Having it up in your school, one of your friends on your team in 88 had a little problem with that. So one of your friends got bamboozled by the you know you can't really touch and they luckily whatever. But we've had our Olympic stories of bad things and you know we had a unfortunate. We had a fortunate, unfortunate water shower. That happened at the Olympic Village in 92, on the security guards downstairs who were mean to our coach, daesung Lee, and to some of us and me.
Speaker 2:And then, unfortunately, somehow, on a very beautiful and shiny day in barcelona, spain, a bucket of water was tossed off the balcony of the of of the thing and it fell on to the security guards downstairs who then called the police and came up to our room for some reason because they thought it was us, and uh said, because we were all in the same room and I'm like, they're like, did you throw a water? And I go, what? No, like sleeping? What are you talking about? I said check upstairs, because the boxers were upstairs, that you know, oscar delahoy and all these guys we were on the fourth or fifth floor. They were on the fifth floor, that we all had our own spacious apartment and room, and so then I won't mention the athlete's name, um, who I was rooming with, and I said they said what? What was up, captain? What happened? I said yeah, that was a security guard. He said, um, I said, I said they said somebody threw a bucket of water on the security guards downstairs and the athlete, without missing a beat, goes a direct hit. So suffice it to say we took care of business, um, in a very direct way all right, let's wrap it up.
Speaker 2:Let me wrap it up. All right, it has been another monumental. You have Moe, larry and Curly here. I won't tell you. Well, I'm thinking TJ is Curly, since he has no hair and he has hair. It's just growing inside out, and I will leave it to figure out which one of us is Moe. Moe is the bully, so that's probably me. No, larry's the bully, so that's probably me. No, larry's the bully. No, mo is the bully, mo is the bully. And then the hair guy can be you. I guess I think that's uh, larry, yeah, yeah, but uh, I, I, I mean, it's hard to say honestly, I think curly's the best looking one. So, uh, this has been mo, larry and curly on the warehouse 15 sorry, I have nothing to say except oh sorry, not sorry, read it all right baby, read it, read it, read it.
Speaker 2:I gotta get me one, I gotta get me one, see ya peace later, all right. Well, we killed that. All right, I'll get it up.