Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Kicking and Screaming: When Your Face Shot Breaks a Nose But Scores Zero Points
When a fighter breaks an opponent's nose with a perfectly executed face shot and scores zero points, something is fundamentally broken. Welcome to modern Taekwondo, where electronic sensors have replaced human judgment, and the art of fighting has morphed into what the Warehouse 15 crew describes as "bad point karate."
The hosts dissect how the PSS (Protector and Scoring System) has failed the sport despite years of promised improvements. Using a brilliant analogy, they explain that trying to fix the current system is like putting triangle wheels on a Mercedes and then focusing on "improving" those triangle wheels rather than simply installing round ones. The result? A sport where athletes have adapted to trigger sensors rather than deliver powerful, technically sound techniques that once defined Taekwondo.
Perhaps most concerning is how the community has grown numb to this new reality. Drawing from a Korean saying—"When it first starts to rain, everybody runs. Once you get wet, you start to walk"—the hosts explain how practitioners have become desensitized to witnessing legitimate techniques go unscored while lighter, sensor-friendly touches rack up points. This was evident at the recent Grand Prix, where even Olympic champions suffered unexpected losses, raising questions about whether these upsets reflect inconsistent training or simply highlight the randomness created by flawed scoring.
Beyond the scoring issues, the episode covers impressive performances from Brazil's 57kg fighter (who shut out opponents completely in two consecutive Grand Prix finals) and Christina Teachout's gold medal in the 67kg division. The hosts also highlight a concerning coaching controversy where a U21 team member wasn't prioritized despite upcoming World Championships. Join us as we navigate the complex world of elite Taekwondo, where athletes continue to strive for excellence despite a system that often fails to recognize it.
Sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry, Sorry, not sorry.
Speaker 2:Welcome, welcome, welcome. Welcome to the Warehouse 15. And we have TJ and Coach Moreno, and I am the Grandmaster of Disaster, welcoming you all here again today. How was your amazing Labor Day weekend, mr moreno?
Speaker 1:mine was good. I was home this weekend I got to relax a little bit, spent some time with my daughter, went put, put, mini, mini golfing, and then yesterday actually I worked. Yesterday we had class, we not with our normal students but with our athletes, because we have some people going to two different events this end of this week president's cup and another thing for usa taekwondo. So um didn't really want to miss last night. So yeah, we trained, but very relaxing. A little rainy in the morning, but typical miami labor day weekend and what do we got from you, mr tj.
Speaker 2:What are you doing? What are you doing?
Speaker 3:I got to take a little break this weekend, a nice little holiday weekend with around some of the family Sat by the lake for a bit. Just paddle boarding hung out a little bit. It was good. I know we don't take too many breaks close to competition, but I feel like I needed this one. I needed a day or two just to sit back.
Speaker 2:We had a training this morning this guy hanging out in Vermont playing on beaches.
Speaker 1:This guy going into Hamptons and stuff. You can go to Vermont, you know, playing on beaches man, this guy like going into.
Speaker 2:Hamptons and stuff man. Can he go to you?
Speaker 3:can go to Vermont. They had some golf balls this weekend. They got a nice golf course that's like five minutes from where the college is Of course they did.
Speaker 2:I love Vermont. I love Vermont. What part of Vermont were you in?
Speaker 3:We were in Burlington. I think it's close to Burlington, I'm not sure, allberg.
Speaker 2:Allberg, nice. Did you buy a coat? They have a big coat factory up there, burlington Coats. Did you not know this?
Speaker 3:I mean, I didn't go to get a coat, they got one of those.
Speaker 1:Burlington Coat Factories.
Speaker 3:Burlington is like, yeah, it might have started there, but they're everywhere too. We used to have them in Virginia as well, but a little bit rainy this weekend. But got some good weather on Sunday, you know Saturday, I think. Sunday, Monday was pretty nice. Came back, had a train this morning, but all good, all good. How about you? How about you sir?
Speaker 2:Me. I took a weekend off. I went to San Francisco, enjoyed some beautiful weather, some beautiful food. I got my pizza fix I didn't get my usual Thaiai fix which I think I took coach moreno to my wife. We had made a reservation, but then we ran around yesterday and then I got some olive oil, some premium olive oil, because I like good olive oil. But it was a nice hot weekend, got my bike ride in, thought a lot about taekwondo and then I had an interesting exchange with Thomas Bay I think is his name, the guy who's been the technical director for the PSS system for quite some time. He sent me a note. It was an interesting note and exchange because I like him and he's always polite to me. But he still doesn't understand the problem. But you know he was like oh, you know it's, it was better and I go, it's not, doesn't score points. I said the referees have been the problem and and that hasn't changed. And what?
Speaker 2:was better I that I mean it. It that's where we lose the problem, right? So when you look at the technical guys, my favorite conversation with him and one of his the guys who was in charge was when I was with Jung Kook Young and him and we were standing there and they gave us this long dissertation on how they had improved the system and they had spent time in the laboratory and it works now and they did all this stuff, and this was in Copenhagen. This is way back when. And so we're standing there and this heavyweight hits the guy. It's a big, big point, big sound, whatever, and nothing goes up. And so John Cooke Young and I both look at him and go yeah, you need to go back to the laboratory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but back then 2009,. It sucked. It still sucks, I mean, imagine Well it still sucks.
Speaker 2:But I mean, who is this?
Speaker 1:guy.
Speaker 2:Who is this guy? Thomas Thomas. Let me tell you his name.
Speaker 1:But he's currently in his role.
Speaker 2:He's currently in his role. Let me tell you his name. You'll know him Thomas BSR BSR.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yes, he's a Korean guy. Yeah, nice guy. Nice guy. Yeah, you know him, Thomas.
Speaker 2:You know him, thomas he's you know I explained to him. He says he said there is a place for improvement on some aspects. Quite happy with the competition. Mujo operations improved a lot in the competition delivery since 2017. On my part, I'm quite happy. We've delivered a new app streaming very well, irr, ivr, very stable. And then I said well, you know the referees. He says I don't think the referees are corrupt. Rules are quite complicated. Overall, pss needs to be improved for sure. And yeah, I can get down with that.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I like the guy he's. You know he's an optimist, but it still goes back to the problem. When you don't allow the referees to wave off non-points and you start scoring things that aren't impactful no pun intended, then the system doesn't work. It's basically bad point, karate.
Speaker 1:I looked at a lot of IVRs and again I sent some to a couple of my friends and they're like point or no point and they're like absolute point. I'm like denied. I mean, one of our girls we'll talk later on hit somebody in the face, broke her nose, broke her nose and no point. The other one yeah. So I just saw a bunch of that stuff. First of all, the headgears don't work at all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there was some big shots. I think I sent you some over the weekend, but some big shots that don't score and it's like there's no way that it didn't register. Ones that I'm talking like head back, neck over helmet to the side and nothing goes up. It's just that that part makes it difficult for me to even believe that they're thinking about taking the head protest card away scared.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that was gonna be tough, hey, yeah I mean, that's a different like, it's a longer conversation.
Speaker 2:It's the one that we keep refusing to have, and and and the conversation becomes what is taekwondo, what should taekwondo be, and what should you be scoring? And you, you know, we, we've now gotten to this place. They have a saying in Korean which it goes something like this. We translate it Um, when it first starts to rain, everybody runs. Once you get wet, you start to walk, and they use it when they describe everything from prostitution to. You know the way people handle life, and it's true in this situation, people in the sport have gotten so dumbed down from what's possible to accept what is as what it should be, that they no longer are talking about what it was and what it could be. And so, fundamentally, it started to rain. Everybody, including most of the USAT. It started to rain Everybody, including most of the USAT. They looked up into the sky, like turkeys did during Ben Franklin's day, and they started to drown and most of them died.
Speaker 2:But in this particular situation, they keep drinking the Kool-Aid and saying this is better and it's barely watchable. I mean, I can't watch it. I joke a lot, but you know, I'll put, and I will continue to put Taekwondo up until about 2008, 2012-ish, maybe on a screen and then watch this stuff. And so you know, we've gotten to a place where we become so numb that this is the expectation. We're trying to make this thing better. It would be as if, coach Moreno, you drive that nice Mercedes. I think it would be as if you had one triangle wheel on your Mercedes and you had four round wheels, and instead of putting more round wheels on your car, you put another couple of triangle wheels and you said, well, what can I do to this triangle wheel and make it move better? You start rounding the edges. Well, lo and behold, over a couple of years, you'd end up with round wheels again. Unfortunately, I think we're going in the opposite direction.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know we're going to talk about some other things, but just on this, I can't disagree with you on some of this stuff. But it goes back to the root of the problem. We have a PSS and I don't blame the athletes, I don't blame the coaches. I'm a coach, he's a coach. He fought in the era we all had to adjust and it wasn't what we wanted to do. We had to.
Speaker 1:And I know what you're saying, because you're right, because now we're kind of like we just because TJ, you know just as well as me we see some monster body shots and we don't even flinch. We see some scrapes that go up and we don't even flinch. We just like Hyung is saying, we just kind of accept it. And that's probably not right. But I feel like the powers to be are so entrenched with what we have that we literally have no options unless there's a huge reset at the top. That's the only possible way.
Speaker 1:I feel like that, with a lot of things that go on in Taekwondo and Steve Young said something on a Facebook point and blah, blah, blah, blah, and I was like listen, I can't disagree with you about the PSS. The PSS do not work. They never have worked with body shots, with face shots. That's why we, we can ivr, that's why there was all these different things to look at, but it's just not a good system. So until they fix that, we're going to be stuck where we're at right now, accepting these things. Like you said. You know grandmaster, disaster and tj, you know we've.
Speaker 3:How many times have we just kind of like got numb to it and just say, I think we I mean I think everyone in the world but, but including myself for sure we coach around it. You got to hit it flatter, you got to get your foot more contact. That's what we just talk about a lot like contact, contact, contact. It's definitely become a kicking sport and that sounds weird, but it's just pure numbers. And I would say accuracy, but not necessarily accuracy, because you're dealing with the difference in what scores, what doesn't score. I think it's just sheer numbers and sheer contact. Yeah, sheer numbers.
Speaker 1:I agree with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think it's. I think we talked about it before, but I think it's very highly cardio-based and right now, with the four and five points, it makes it a little bit crazy, because you can still be in a match and not do anything and then score a five-point kick or four-point kick and and win a round, you know, or or change it completely away from where it was. So a lot of strange, a lot of I won't say strange because I'm used to it, but a lot of rules that have put us here and I don't, I don't see how you go the opposite way, I I. It's hard for me to believe it's going to get fixed. I think the best thing would be go three, two. I would get rid of the bonus points, like they're trying to do.
Speaker 1:And I think so, I think you know what. This is the first time and I mean I know I've talked to Grandmaster Perez privately and we've talked about I said we're never going back. We got PSS, we're never going back. He's like why, why, why, why. And in this situation I never would have thought we would have walked back five and four points. And we are what, if we get down to, they're not scoring punches anymore. You can punch as much as you want, it's going to go to two to one. You know what I'm saying and I don't know Again. I'm just, I'm just, you know, brainstorming. I know we got a lot to talk about. This is a different topic, but let's, let's, let's cut the last couple of days of the Grand Prix and the president's cup. What'd you think?
Speaker 3:I got a chance to watch. Like I said, I got a chance to watch some of the earlier matches. I think I've watched a lot of 50, some of 58, a lot of 68, some um 57 and 67 girls, but those those ones at 80, of course I've watched a bunch of 80. Well, 80 we talked about already.
Speaker 1:What about 68? We got a new star in this Thailand boy.
Speaker 3:Oof he's rough. I've seen him before Star Star, he's a little tough. I don't think he's a star. He's a little tough and rugged. Right, yeah, he's a little tough and rugged. He doesn't go away.
Speaker 1:When he won this guy won. He went like this he's from Thailand, mind you. As soon as he won, he was like oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, he did that to the crowd.
Speaker 3:I didn't see that he did it to the camera.
Speaker 1:But he's first of all, he's huge. The dude is tall as a Paul is a mug boy.
Speaker 2:Oh really.
Speaker 1:And his face. What I like TJ. He never looked like he was breathing that boy's like this. When they showed his face up, when they show him break, other guys are on their knees or putting their head down he was just like he never was in trouble. He looked real good. He looked like one of the upper echelon of people. If you tried to get tough with him, he like oh, you want to fight, let's fight, yeah if you want to stay with me.
Speaker 1:Let's say it like I. I really felt like he had a lot of answers for everything. So I don't know. I want to see him against the, the iranians and the russians and the jordanians in the. You know, I want to see him. I think he's gonna. His world championships could be very interesting for this kid. I was impressed.
Speaker 3:Definitely a longer 68. And the ability to kind of change his foot angle at the top a lot he gets over, like I said we were talking earlier. He gets his foot out there a lot. I like his pace. His pace is what I like the most, I think. And his willingness to fight still, even if he's up Like up three, fight still. Even if he's up Up three, up four, he's still kind of going forward when he wants. I always think that's an interesting thing for 68.
Speaker 1:I think on 58, I mean staying with the men real fast. We already did the 80. Let's do the men's side 58, I was really disappointed with the men's final. I posted that on social media. The two Korean guys, I think they're Korean style. There was no stepping, there was no explosion. They just walked up to each other and started kicking the crap out of each other and it went three rounds, bae won. I mean, like you said, from a volume standpoint, I can appreciate it.
Speaker 3:He should have lost the second round.
Speaker 1:He should have lost the second round but to his credit he kicked one more time and got the four points and the guy went out of bounds, so he won it. And got the four points and the guy went out of bounds, so he won it. But I just wasn't impressed. I was impressed, actually, with the Kazan boy I think he beat. You know there was three, for I didn't think this tournament was so deep, but there was three Olympic champions, three Olympic champions that lost 58?.
Speaker 3:Oh, in the whole tournament.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in the whole tournament Hold on for one second. Excuse me, you guys keep talking.
Speaker 3:So I think it was 80. So I think 80. Who else lost the heavyweight women's? Did she lose?
Speaker 1:Heavyweight women lost. Oh yeah, Teju and Park lost, and oh and then the 57 we'll talk about later.
Speaker 2:So what do you think that tells you well?
Speaker 3:that's the inconsistency for me because, it's too easy, no, no.
Speaker 2:But what is it? What does it tell you? So? About the game, about it, about the game. In other words, if you look at there's honestly possible thing, no, no, it's two possible things it can tell you MMA. If you fight in the MMA, you fully expect to lose or win, because it's such a hard game contingent upon such a you got a haircut Nice nice, nice.
Speaker 1:You got a haircut.
Speaker 2:Looks like TJ on top.
Speaker 1:Come on man, that's my baby.
Speaker 3:Look at that beautiful. That looks exactly like your haircut actually. It's the same color and everything. Look at that beautiful that looks exactly like your haircut actually.
Speaker 2:It's the same color and everything. So in MMA you fully expect to see wins and losses on a guy's record. It's almost impossible to be undefeated.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Now, when you see other things, the other possibility is that the system of scoring, the system of scoring points, is so happenstance and there's such a skill lack, skill luck factor that you get random results. So a guy that might be the best player on that particular day may not be able to prevail or simply doesn't, because the system doesn't work. He doesn't work. The system well, it's no longer a. It's no longer. It's no longer an athletic endeavor based upon power, speed and technical acumen. It's more about can you do certain things tricks if you will that, score points and hope they go up. It's a video game. It's like playing karate fighter back in the day. Right, how many quarters does it take for you to win and continue to keep winning? How long can you play on one quarter? And I think that's really what it speaks volumes to.
Speaker 1:I mean I agree with your first part. I don't agree with the second part, because I think that there's well. First of all, like one guy, this is his first fighting since the Olympic Games. I'm not sure if the Korean girl, if it's her first, even though she made it to the final, but I think some of them are just a little bit out of shape and they're just getting back into it. Second of all, I think there's coming some new people.
Speaker 2:I think there's some yeah, yeah, I think that's possible too, but you got to be in shape to fight this kind of fighting. I don't see anything, but I see ballet dancers. Maybe the cardio? Yeah, these are long distance runners maybe, but I mean, these are not fighters. I wouldn't call them fighters.
Speaker 1:Listen again. We're going back now to that thing with the system. People play the system. I think there are some dudes and some women that could fight. I think Christina Tichot could fight. I know he could fight. I know Caden Cunningham Does that sound like him? Caden? Caden the heavyweight I know he could fight. There are some dudes that could fight out there. But I know what you're saying, young, but the cardio in this nowadays is crazy.
Speaker 2:I think if you took a picture of the athletes that are currently competing all of them and you put them up on a website, and then you took a picture of K-pop, j-pop, j-pop, gay pop and you put them up and you told people identify the fighters, they couldn't, they come up with a bunch of these guys would be just as good at being a k-pop band that's the same thing.
Speaker 1:Put some soccer players pitchers up there, put some high school kids up there. Man, they all got messed up haircuts soccer.
Speaker 2:Oh, by the way, why are you?
Speaker 1:trying to get off early today. Man, teach your son how to drive. Man, give him a car. You only have like 10 cars like you cars.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, Dude, I just fixed it.
Speaker 1:This guy's got more cars. He's got a car for every day of the week and he's got to drive his son around.
Speaker 2:Tell him to drive. Man, I'm trying, man, I'm trying, he can't pay attention long enough to pay attention. So you know what I mean. Like we got him, he's got.
Speaker 1:like 10 cars For real. He got cars sitting around.
Speaker 2:They all have round wheels though, All round wheels.
Speaker 1:I don't use that one too much. I'm like wait, that's those cars. I think the change of.
Speaker 3:I think the round-and-around system changes the kind of results too. I think it's a little bit tricky like that. You know what I mean being able to steal a round, hold a round, go back to zero. I think that kind of changed. I feel like even earlier in the PSS generation there was a lot of it was easy to predict the bracket, I feel like you know. I mean, you knew who was going to get to those quarters, you knew who was going to get to the semis. You knew probably who was going to be in the finals and probably win the finals.
Speaker 3:In most cases, I think now, because of the electronics and maybe because of the inconsistency in the the scoring, a lot of matches are close when they shouldn't be, or they, you know. You know, or they, or they are when, or they aren't when they should be, like whatever, whichever way you want to go. So I think that has a lot to do with I mean, yeah, I look at the brackets now and I'm just always unsure because I know anything can happen. I think the champions at the top are are, like you said. I think it's the rebuilding stages for some of them, so some of the bigger ones that are in these events, I'm not sure who's. I don't think anyone's peaking for these. No.
Speaker 1:Even like yeah, for sure, 100%, they're not peaking and they're smart. I like to look and get the pulse on other countries. I mean, look how many countries that didn't show up, from the Turkeys to the Germans. A lot of Europeans didn't show up to this because you know there's just too much going on and world championships are not too far away and blah blah blah, he wasn't in Charlotte either.
Speaker 3:Right, was Turkey in Charlotte? A couple, a couple, a couple of them, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah yeah, but I mean I think you know again the 58th Korean Korea final. I think the Kazakhstan boy was pretty fearless. Our two American kids lost to the same. Well, two of the American kids lost to the same kid from Mongolia, which both they were both in the matches but they just couldn't pull it out in the last seconds. A little unfortunate, but so goes 58, right, I mean, that's how these matches are. And that Mongolian kid, while he wasn't bad, he definitely wasn't mid-level.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he could play a bit. He stayed in the game and fought. I think both of those fights went three rounds each Kind of the same thing. I think both of them were down to the last second. Small mistake, big mistake, whatever you want to call it, but getting scored on later, whatever it was. But again, like you said, that's 58. That's 58. You either kick to the end or you might get scored on.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. And heavyweight was interesting because you had the Spanish guy beat a Russian and then you had Lauren, who's been an Olympic champion before get the bronze medal. He beat Caden Cunningham from GB.
Speaker 2:I thought that was a pretty good match, you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean I was telling somebody, people were like oh Lauren, I'm like Lauren hasn't fought that much from Russia and he puts the points on the board, like I think he's coming into form again. He's getting a little old. I was going to ask you something about Caden. When you watch it, like I think he's CJ-like in the sense that he's explosive, he's dynamic.
Speaker 2:Can he do capoeira? Does he take his shirt off? Does he wear fur?
Speaker 1:jackets no, no, no, and does he?
Speaker 2:rap.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Oh, then he's not CJ.
Speaker 1:I know, but I think he's a little unique in the heavyweight division. But I saw him fighting very slow this time and he wasn't maximizing his physical ability and, I think, his talent, his advantage over the heavyweights, which surprised me a little bit. You know, again, it's not the end of the world. He fought, you know, four matches deep into the competition, whatever it was.
Speaker 3:I mean I don't know much about him. I just I see him. I've like spoke to him very rarely. I know he's super competitive and, you know, always wants to win, right. I think, like I said, I think that goes back to maybe the preparation for the event, in the sense of I mean he went and did MMA for like eight months. You know what I mean. He went to Thailand and did MMA for like literally eight months. So I think everyone's, when he first came into the heavyweight division, yeah, kind of like a little too fast, a little a lot of different, uh, variations compared to, like the rest of the heavyweight. So he's, he's always going to be a threat deep. I think with the bigger guys like the, the Simone's and the Lauren, I think it becomes a little interesting. But he's, he's one shot away from scoring four and fives, and you know so he's. I like watching him in that division. I think he kind of offers that same thing that cc did, though yeah.
Speaker 1:So the women? Um, we talked about the 49 already. That was the first day. Um 57, our brazilian girl won um for the second time in a row. Um, a lot like cj. I think it's interesting that um this year she's won the Rio Open, she won Charlotte, she won the World Universities, she won, and now here she won. And she beat the Olympic champion and you made a good point, tj In two Grand Prix finals. She shut the girls out In the finals, like China and Korea, like good fighters, shut them out. Olympic champion. That might be unheard of, like you shut out To go zeros, she got a couple of goms out there.
Speaker 3:The second round she got like four goms. I was kind of like giving up time. I mean like no headshot registrations, no card registrations, no punches, nada for two straight rounds in the finals.
Speaker 1:We were just saying that the Brazil girl won the 57.
Speaker 2:I saw that.
Speaker 1:She won Charlotte and this one. In both finals she gave up zero points. That's crazy that you give up zero points. In this day and age, to not score a point is really, really rare.
Speaker 3:You'd be an Olympic champion if you put that on there. And this was the Olympic champion In the finals after having a good day scoring a lot of points throughout the whole day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she got a gold. I mean I think that was pretty good. The American girl, Faith Dillon, got a bronze medal. She got a bronze medal at the Charlotte one. She was being very consistent so she lost to the Korean girl and then and and won her some. Her bronze medal match pretty handily against a Tunisian girl, so that was pretty cool for her yeah, the one, or two matches all day.
Speaker 3:She was scoring pretty well 67, yeah, 67 67 was, uh, christina Teachout.
Speaker 1:She improved on her bronze medal from Charlotte. She won a gold medal. She looked very good. The girl that she lost to last time lost in the semifinals from Spain and it was Spain and Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan won. And then Christina had no problem with the Uzbekistan girl. A little bit short, she really steamrolled. I mean I'm gonna give her a lot of credit because I saw a difference in korea than I saw in charlotte. I felt she was way more composed, way more like um, structured and still aggressive. Not wild aggressive, not spitting at the last second, aggressive, but just strong, strong, strong. Bullying the girls in a sense, but in a controlled sense. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just like control would be stronger than every other girl that she's in front of. Like you said easy steamroll.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, she was not in trouble all day, she was pretty, uh, pretty solid.
Speaker 2:The.
Speaker 1:Moreno, girl from Spain, she, you know, she got a gold, I would say gold. Last time she had a bronze. So basically, her and Christina flip flop and uh, it was back to saying girls, solid, but a little short, a little short, heavyweight, heavyweight was won by russia. Yeah, the other who?
Speaker 3:were the others who were. The other 67 was is chloe chua and uh the other 67s for the us megan riley.
Speaker 1:Megan, where's she from? Megan riley's from new york. She's from new york. She fought in the I only know because I had a girl that fought her in au, both at nationals and at team trials, and she went over there. She had a rough outing. I mean it was a pretty quick day for her. Both rounds were pretty. She got dominated, but it is what it is, you know. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 3:I actually got a message slash phone call from over there with the 67s Donna, we're talking about 67. And one of the players in the there's like chloe, the chloe shua, uh, 67 girl. She's on our under 21 team and I guess I couldn't figure out how we don't prioritize and was told that she was going to get coached. She ended up getting coached by someone else, but how we're not prioritizing coaching one of our people who are under 21. It's going to the under 21 world championships, is it? You think it's because the same division thing, or what's that about? I mean, I know, I know there were no other matches going on at the time. Um, I know that everything was put into place for them to be coped by them and it kind of was like an ordeal shua and uh and teach out were on the opposite side, so that wouldn't even matter to the final.
Speaker 1:So, um, listen, actually again, because I was watching a lot of matches I think she lost her quarterfinal match. I think she lost her third match, so she was. What I like about that girl is she can score, like she scores some pretty good face shots and she has good timing of when she scores you know what I'm saying. Like it's close and she's winning by a little bit and she'll get that next shot. I'm like pretty impressive. So, yeah, I forgot that she was. I didn't think about that. She's on the U21 team that's going to a world championship. I'm not one of those coaches seems to be coaching a lot of the under-21 people, both in the one in Paraguay. So, yeah, you think you would take a chance and coach a national team level athlete. That's a mistake by by the organization, I would think, especially if you're there. You know, um, and you had one other coach there.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I don't think that's good no, it can't be good.
Speaker 3:I mean it can't be good, I mean, you see, especially when you coach other people.
Speaker 1:For example, I I know the national team coaches coach a heavyweight male that isn't even on the radar. So if they sit in that guy's chair, then they should sit in an under-21 team member's chair, if asked.
Speaker 3:Like I said, yeah, I think there was some email form that was filled out that said they were supposed to coach them and all that stuff. And then it kind of got weird at the end and basically they didn't sit in their chair. They basically out that said they were supposed to coach them and all that stuff, and then it kind of got weird at the end and they didn't, basically they didn't sit in their chair. They told they basically were told they were busy. I think that's the part for me.
Speaker 3:I think either have balls and go we're not coaching anybody but the academy and just say it, or do the right thing but don't like kind of lead people on a bit until they get there and then they're they flustered and they're trying to find someone to coach them. And it seems very weird to me in that situation. And that again, I know I hard-pointed a lot, but I don't understand how you don't want to be in that girl's chair. I'm sorry If she's not one of our top talent. If we're talking about all that pipeline development, the upper echelon special ones, then what are we?
Speaker 1:doing. No, she's definitely one of the upper talented people. I mean, whether you like her or not, whether you know her or not, over or not, she, she's one of the more talented people. So, um, again, this is that selective thing like what. I think this gives everybody the most frustration, like when am I accepted and when I'm not not accepted? You know, I'm accepted because I have potential or I'm accepted because I'll do what you tell me to do, you know? I mean it was. I mean it seems like they're.
Speaker 1:They're taking some of these, these kids that are young and talented and they better know what to do with them, because they're going to get them underneath their watch and maybe they took them away from their home coach too early and there's a lot of things that their home coaches understand about them and can give them and that's why they're successful. I mean, look at, look at this kid. I mean I talked about him last time and I said he was, I liked him a lot. Look at this kid, victor. You know, I don't think it's any surprise that he did well when his dad was sitting in the chair His dad's sitting in the chair and he just got him through those tough matches and, you know, put him in a position to medal because he knows him. You know, maybe just because another higher profile coach sits in his chair, maybe he doesn't know what buttons to push.
Speaker 1:We talked about that at the Pan Ams there was certainly the coach had no idea what buttons to push for two athletes that have been successful in the Pan American region and you know, both of those athletes lost, again coached by the same person, and one of them is super early, maybe way too early. You know one of our up-and-coming shining stars going out early in the tournament like first match. Early shouldn't happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 68 is tricky, but like you, know, Grandmaster just said, such as Grandmaster just said, such as 68. Such as 68 is a monster. 68 is, I'm going to say, the toughest division in the world, because I think that's the one division. You can see the athleticism, you can see the size, you can see a lot of physicality a lot of times in 68 in comparison to some of the other divisions. So I mean, but that's 68 for you and you know, that's where our you said, like our earlier up-and-coming guys, but that's 68 for you know, you gotta.
Speaker 1:I have this like little formula. I always say like you have to, against the 50, 50 years, like we're just 50, where we're even, me and you, about the same level. We're not high level, yet we're the same. We shouldn't be 50, 50 I gotta beat. I got to beat this guy 90% of the time. I got to beat him nine out of 10 times and then I'll take my shot at those good guys up there once I get there. If I can't beat these average guys 90% of the time, what shot do I have to beat the good guys? And so that's the thing that I'll say with some of our people that drop matches to again these, I'm just going to say average people, does that make sense? No, no, I got you.
Speaker 3:I was about to say something we're going to finish, finish, no, no, no, I guess not having again, not that we don't, but I don't know if other countries do or how they do it. I feel like, obviously, we have a select few of whatever you want to call it, natural national team training center. Those athletes right, we have that group. But I feel like for some of the other guys and I'm just being honest, not to be rude or anything, but we're not, we're not on the national, some of these people were going over to the grand prix challenges we're not on the national team, we're not like, deep into the system yet. I think that's a big tournament.
Speaker 3:Like you said, I try to err on the side of oh, get the experience, do this, do that. But, like you said, every experience for me is not a good experience. I mean, I don't know if there should be a selection, but I wish we could and I say this as respectfully as possible I wish we could fill some of those spots with quality situations where we are developing, and they should be bringing all those guys in. If you're going to do something like that, then all those guys that are registered to somehow be together, training together and I still think they should work with the national team coaches at that point in some way. If you're going to do it that way, you know. If you're going to do it that way, I understand it's an open. I got all that stuff but like I don't know, I don't know what you do with it.
Speaker 1:Maybe just I don't know, listen, the united, the United States. I mean again, you know, I think there's a lot of talent here at a lot of different levels and it seems like it's getting streamlined to the top where you're getting two or three that are pretty consistent and that's it. Everybody else is just inconsistent. They might have a great day or they might just have a flop, and that's not a good place to be. I'd rather have you going two or three matches and lose two, three matches. Lose two, three matches lose, and all sudden you get four matches. But if you're like one tournament, you get four or five matches and the next first match. That's too much. There's too much, you know in between there. That's not. That tends to me. That makes me believe that maybe it's luck if you get that four match runoff. Does that make sense? So I don't know. It's a. We're definitely in a weird situation.
Speaker 1:But hats off to cj, hats off to christina. They, you know she improved on her, on her result, um, consistent, um, faith got through her couple matches and then got her bronze medal. They equaled their output, everybody in between. It's debatable. What's going on with them. You're going to turn around for the.
Speaker 3:President's Cup right yeah.
Speaker 1:Just get back to her. I think that's a misstep right there. I think that's a misstep. I think someone should answer for that, you know, and try to figure that out.
Speaker 3:So, because that girl is talented and she is on the national team and yeah, and, and.
Speaker 3:For me I think she's been around. I mean, you know she's ran deep at the us opens and the other international opens, so she's had some good quality fights. I think that's the kind of person you for me, that's the kind of person you want to get into the Grand Prix system. Obviously, I know she can still do it later with the points next year, blah, blah, blah this year, blah, blah, blah, but still, this is one of those opportunities that for me is kind of important and you get a chance to work with someone that's on your next or your national team very soon, later this year.
Speaker 1:I look at her and I'm saying this again I have no, I don't know anything about the girl personally, but I see her. She's somebody that can go to a real Grand Prix and just have that day and be solid enough to kind of slip in for a medal. I really believe that because she's tall enough, she's technical enough, she's tough enough and like I don't see her getting blown out too often.
Speaker 2:That's a Rolling Stones song.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Aren't you tough enough?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, aren't you tough enough? A quick time before the president's cut.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, when are you going?
Speaker 3:to go out there, I leave tomorrow.
Speaker 1:I leave tomorrow. Yeah, me too Tomorrow morning.
Speaker 2:Well, you guys, are we going to be able to do a podcast from there, or no?
Speaker 3:Let me, let me know. We gotta know before it's gonna be tough, though it would probably be, maybe. What do we got going on sunday there's?
Speaker 1:nothing on sunday.
Speaker 3:Right there's cadets on saturday okay, I don't have any cadets or juniors this time tj's staying, tj's staying longer right I'm staying yeah, I'm staying um afterwards for a training camp with some of the like peruvian teams.
Speaker 3:It's a good exchange for my guys. I think this for us is going to be like the last semi-big one of the year. I'm not sure there's much left after this. So this is kind of like the hoorah We'll get the most out of that long flight, slash expensive plane ticket over to Peru and then just head back home and probably go. My plane wasn't too much. Well, mine was like almost 800, seven something much.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, our mind was like almost 800, seven something, 800, you can't wait. That's a lot, that's not a lot 800.
Speaker 3:You can't get to new york for 800. Who can't get in new york's cheap? Well, your tickets you got to fly in the pilot's cockpit, sit on his lap. It's a whole different, uh, whole different price, you know well I didn't, I didn't I didn't know.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you know why yours is so expensive because you got to get out of Kentucky or Wisconsin or wherever you're at. You got to take a boat to the plane. I mean, you know I get it, man, but like geez, $800. It cost me $800 to go to Santa Barbara down here you guys got that. New York you know North Carolina thing I watched a. Actually I'm watching a television series about down where you're at. It's called Waterfront.
Speaker 3:You got to watch it.
Speaker 2:Dude, it's about North Carolina and it's really. Most people haven't heard of North Carolina. I know.
Speaker 3:What time do you leave Miami? I think I leave at like 11.34, 11.34. I'll see you there. You guys in the same airplane I go from here to Miami and then Miami to Peru.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he's in first class. You're in the back, aren't you?
Speaker 1:Hey, tj, so you're in American Airlines.
Speaker 3:American. Yep, I just looked at it right now.
Speaker 1:What time do you get in?
Speaker 3:We'll go to the 4.15? No, in the morning. Oh no, I get in at 9. I arrive at 9.30. 9.15. Well, bring him a.
Speaker 2:Bring him a pancombisteak in like a cafe con leche.
Speaker 1:We'll go to lounge for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's that. Uh, it's flight 1307.
Speaker 1:I think one of those just call me when you get in. I'll be there, I'll go to. Well, I think we should think about.
Speaker 2:I gotta go pick up my son, but let's get some closing words. My uh, anything before you want to try to do a podcast down there?
Speaker 1:we'll try, we'll hook up with you. Uh, so we'll try to, because maybe sunday, maybe sunday are you? Are you busy, sund Sunday?
Speaker 2:no, good man, good, it's Sunday, I got, I got nothing going on all right, we know you got to go, so we'll keep it short.
Speaker 1:One thanks. I just want to again say thanks for everybody and let's give a shout out to Mark Warburton. I know you're doing seminar at his place. He got stuck in the hospital man. He got some some stuff going on, so hopefully he gets better. It's all the guys that have been reaching out and stuff like that, telling us we've done a good job on our podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, we're getting a lot of those notes and I really appreciate the kind words People say we make them laugh and they were laying the story. So just keep building that audience folks, there's always room for one more person on the podcast. If we can find an Olympic non-medalist, of which the USA Taekwondo has plenty, we'll welcome. Send us your Olympic non-medalist. You've got a ton of those. Let's hope that we can get an Olympic medalist this next games. With that said, this has been the Warehouse 15. Sorry, not sorry. Oh, nice shirt, Dude, where's mine? We're out. Peace, All right guys. Sorry, I had to be short today.