Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
What Makes Elite Taekwondo Athletes Special?
What makes a champion in combat sports? Is greatness born or built? This fascinating deep dive into the heart of Taekwondo excellence brings together Olympic-level coaches to dissect the qualities that separate elite fighters from the rest.
The conversation opens with a critical distinction – there's a fundamental difference between general athletes and combat athletes. While many sports demand specific physical attributes, Taekwondo presents a unique arena where outliers can thrive despite not fitting conventional molds. We explore how the physical requirements have evolved from explosiveness and power to a greater emphasis on coordination, flexibility, and muscular endurance.
Perhaps the most compelling insights emerge when discussing the mental aspects of championship development. One former champion attributes his success not to innate talent but to an extraordinary work ethic: "I'd run streets at 5am when it was 20 below...and this was before I was even good." This dedication to process over results emerges as a defining characteristic of those who reach the pinnacle of the sport.
The coaches tackle the thorny question of specialization – when should young athletes focus exclusively on Taekwondo? Their consensus points to age 12-13 as the sweet spot, warning that earlier specialization often leads to burnout and limited physical development. This perspective challenges conventional wisdom about early sport specialization in America.
What truly distinguishes these coaches' approach is their balanced philosophy, blending traditional discipline with modern motivational techniques. As one puts it, "old school work ethic with new school motivation." This harmonizing of seemingly opposite approaches creates an environment where athletes can develop both the technical skills and mental fortitude required for international success.
Whether you're a Taekwondo practitioner, coach, parent of a young athlete, or simply fascinated by the psychology of elite performance, this episode offers rare insights into the making of champions. Join us for an unfiltered look at combat sports excellence – sorry, not sorry!
Sorry, not sorry, sorry, not sorry, Sorry, not sorry. Well, I'm working on my stand-up routine because I've had many jobs in my life and the one that I have not had yet is stand-up. You know I always tell a joke when I do these seminars. I go give people Sorry, sorry, not sorry. Flip the menu, baby, Flip the menu. There's two sides to that menu. Sorry, not sorry, that is yeah. If you got no other free time, I still don't get it.
Speaker 2:Did you watch, did you watch?
Speaker 3:I'm chilling at the school right now.
Speaker 2:I had some classes this morning, just about to get settled into the day.
Speaker 3:Thought.
Speaker 4:I'd make a pit stop on our thursday I see a similarity between you and charlie sheen.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it is, but I think it's towards the end of the video. So when you get to the end of the video, let me know what you think good, good, happy to be here as always, you know it's funny.
Speaker 5:I you say, you know, sorry, not sorry. You know how many people have told send that to me sorry, not sorry, like they know how many people have told send that to me Sorry, not sorry, like they know it's our tagline. So they they sent it to me in text, uh, direct messages. You know, even some of my Brazil people are like sorry, not sorry. And it's true, I don't know, it's a what a, what a? You don't come up with many good things there, sir, but you know this one I will have to admit.
Speaker 1:There's something about the bad boy persona and the willingness to go against the conventions that resonates with people and we've seen it in Taekwondo and other places in our life. But you said something interesting when we were talking before we got started, and it was about this idea of his friends and take a good look at that group of guys and you'll see it in music a lot.
Speaker 1:So if you're a fan of music, like I am, you go back and you look at where the great rock and roll guitar players and musicians came from they came from the same area about the comedians five or ten miles, twenty miles apart in
Speaker 3:england and they end up leading and being the best guitar players in the world and some of the greatest bands.
Speaker 1:And in this situation, you look at this group of people. He was with. You know, he had Sean Penn, he had Nicolas Cage, he had himself, he had all these other kids, including his dad and stuff and somehow yeah, and his brother and.
Speaker 4:TJ got in the mix. I don't know how he got in the mix, but he was.
Speaker 5:I forgot like his wives were banging when he first got them and they were like all these beautiful women, denise. I forgot that he was married to.
Speaker 4:Denise Richard. I don't know why.
Speaker 5:But like it's crazy, like how many of those hot popular women that he was with at that time.
Speaker 1:Oh ridiculous.
Speaker 3:But his dad, you know his dad was a stand-up actor, he was a Hollywood bad boy, and then his brothers acted as well, and he was in some of the most seminal, you know, greatest movies ever.
Speaker 1:He played the baseball player guy who was really. That was actually, yeah, a great performance. But then he had other performances were just great Great movie, Great movie, great movie, great movie, great paul newman. And then we and of course we lost one of my favorite all-time all-american actors, robert redford. Just in some great movies and stuff my wife, I was like honey he was, he was old, but anyway, enough of that. We got some serious business today and I'm going to tell you that for the first time, probably the first ever, it wasn't the gold medal idea, it wasn't the silver medal idea, it was the bronze medal idea. I don't want to remind him that. I've been talking about doing it for a while, but he had this amazing idea on what we should cover and brother, actually, no, it is his idea uniquely his Mine was more about the sport in general. So I don't want to steal any thunder, I don't know much about him.
Speaker 2:I only know like his acting career. Or take away any water from the great, the inimitable bronze tj who, after this idea, may be promoted to silver, younger. But I didn't realize he was, like you know, like you said, a hollywood bad boy like that, like out there, you know yeah that like out there, you know yeah yeah, major league, you know what I like wild thing, that movie, uh, the move that slaps the comedy, hot shots, remember that one.
Speaker 3:That was fun.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 4:Alright, let's get Go ahead, Coach.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, no, I think today I talked to Coach Ray. We talked a little bit offline. I thought we'd talk about kind of the makeup of like our Taekwondo athlete or like what makes certain athletes special. You know, we talked about a little bit before the nature versus nurture side of the whole thing. I just want to pick you guys' minds a little bit about, like you know, kind of like that side of Taekwondo and you know how we from the creating of athletes early, through building through later, to ultimately, like we always talk about the Olympic day and Olympic podium.
Speaker 4:So what do you think?
Speaker 5:coach. Well, I mean, I think, I think it's you know, I hear this word athlete a lot, you know, and I think there's a big difference between athletes and a combat athlete, first and foremost.
Speaker 3:I think there's probably a different definition of athlete combat athlete and Taekwondo athlete and as I've, been mentioning, I've been looking at a lot of different sports, as you guys have.
Speaker 5:The fighting part of Olympic Taekwondo is practically gone.
Speaker 1:There are the certain sports that are biometric, biophysicality and roughness.
Speaker 5:The athletes need a certain body type or attribute.
Speaker 3:And most. Olympic committees, especially in socialized countries, go into schools and they choose athletes that way In China. They get kids, they measure them, they throw. Yeah, we're kicking a punch.
Speaker 4:The violence is not the goal at all, it's the score points. It's to manipulate the machine.
Speaker 5:I think first and foremost and then they put them in a sport In Australia which is not a socialist country they did the same thing.
Speaker 3:The Australian Olympic Committee did that.
Speaker 5:And so in Taekwondo or in a fighting sport. You have outliers that don't follow those biometrics.
Speaker 3:Like Mike Tyson, who wasn't necessarily a big heavyweight.
Speaker 1:Or Herb Perez, who wasn't a big middleweight and so the good thing about Certain sports that are missing.
Speaker 3:That are not needed. If you have them, good.
Speaker 1:But it's not 100% crucial To have, which is strange, you know if you have a good soccer, and the list probably goes on.
Speaker 1:As compared to basketball, right, long distance running right and you can swimming right. You need a certain size, foot and reach and length in your hands and flexibility in your shoulders. In taekwondo you don't necessarily you can get away with certain things. But to go back to a taekwondo athlete, and what I think is necessary, whether it's today or 20 years ago or 40 years ago, is explosiveness so fast, twitch muscle fiber. It's a type of sport that's anaerobic, so you need that. On the physical side of it, you have much more of a cake where you can change the ingredients and still come with a good result.
Speaker 1:Coach Moreno was tall, way tall for his division, incredibly tall for his division. Not as tall as Mike O'Malley was for his. Incredibly tall for his division. Um, not as tall as michael malley was for his, but certainly way taller than the majority of the guys on the team. Even you know, I think I lined up like a herpriz. I lined up next to you. That's how tall I was, not.
Speaker 1:And so I think explosiveness and power, um, and I'll say the one thing that has changed, just to, to put a finer point on it, because I think the most important things we're going to be talking about are going to be intellectual, philosophical and mental. The one thing that has changed is the composition of the body, and that's because of the scoring system. So you end up with taller and I always call them K-poop fighters, you know, tall, skinny guys who, to be honest, wouldn't have survived in this sport 40 years ago. They wouldn't have made it. Their bodies wouldn't have been able to put up with the archers of the sport.
Speaker 1:One last thing I'll say about that, though, because I'm always casting shade on the individual is the current best hope for the US in the Olympic. He probably could have survived in both sports. He could have survived in this generation and, if trained properly, would have survived in our generation, because he's physically a strong athlete, he's in good condition, he's athletic, and so he's the outlier on what I'm about to say. Aaron Cook could have survived and did survive in both sports. Didn't win, but could did survive in both sports, didn't win, but could have survived in both sports.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I think explosiveness is the thing that was a big factor before. That, I'm going to say, is not so much of a factor now. You don't necessarily need to be explosive. I think long-term strength kind of plays a role. Cardiovascular strength, I would say, would say muscular strength, that type of situation. Coordination, um, obviously I would say we all want someone who's flexible, right and kind of move their leg and their bodies in different ways. So I think if you had to prioritize something right now, it'd probably be coordination, flexibility and some level of strength.
Speaker 5:For me, listen, I, I was gonna, I was gonna, you know. First of all, I don't think we should ever think about the outliers and I know in some of my Olympic courses that I did, you know, way back when they talked about wrestling, boxing, judo, taekwondo as a messy sport. Because even though you do things in a certain way, you know kind of a building up phase, a pyramid phase of progression. If you're trying to um, uh, develop an athlete, whether it's physically, technically, you know it doesn't matter, because there's always weird things that happen in a match where, in a swimming or in a track and field, you have the start and then you have a go, and so it's, if you can, um, if you can swim 10,000 hours in this one, you know this one stroke you're going to improve by 0.2%. You can't say that in Taekwondo. It's very difficult to measure up. We're a messy sport. There's always variables. You're right, TJ, when we're looking at athletes, there's always going to be an outlier. There's always going to be a small guy. There's always going to be a super tall guy. There's always going to be an outlier. There's always going to be a small guy. There's always going to be a super tall guy. There's always going to be someone that kind of defies the odds and I think that's a big problem that a lot of people look at.
Speaker 5:I use somebody like I'm a guy. I'm a big fan of Abu Ghosh. Abu Ghosh was a 68 World Olympic champion in the Rio Olympics. He's a midget, he's shorterogash, he tries to train people like himself, but the problem is he's just a freak. He's just a guy that could do all this stuff and I don't think you replicate that. I think that was just unique to him. That's why I mean again, no offense. I know he goes around and does things and kind of promotes his brand, but I have a little bit more respect for people that look at to take on as a whole and say how can I build the small guy, the tall guy, the?
Speaker 5:not flexible guy the flexible guy and give them the attributes or work around the attributes, and I would agree with you. Tj Explosive is gone. If you have it, it's a good thing to get from point to point. Speed does kill, but at the end of the day you don't need to be fast anymore. It's such a static game which is sad.
Speaker 5:I listened to a podcast with Terrence Crawford before the fight I know it's popular to talk about him now, but before the fight and he was saying that his kids cannot play football or basketball. And they're like why, why? Why Come on bud? Why would you let them? They can make a lot of money. He's like you know, man, people always say that you could be whatever you want. He's like that's, he goes. No, you can't, he goes. That's a falsehood. If you're five foot 10, you ain't playing basketball, he goes. I'm five nine, my wife is short. My kids are going to be five foot six. They're not playing in the nba. Don't give me this thing that this guy was six foot, he's. There are some things you can't do, some things you shouldn't be trying to pursue, and I thought about that.
Speaker 1:I liked his brutally honest, straightforward opinion no, I mean I, I had a thing where I was, no matter how hard I tried to figure out how bad. I wanted you know so and one thing that I had um I would say yes, cj.
Speaker 5:First of all, let's just take one note flexibility would be number one for me because even if you're short, you could play and cut the face game. If you have a certain body composition, like you mentioned, I would run at people um and then I'd Strangers on the street.
Speaker 4:I think it would be really important.
Speaker 1:I'd run at them and cut.
Speaker 5:Coordination is up there, but I think it's a different coordination because it's not a speed coordination, right, it's a coordination to move your leg and body in certain positions. I would actually go muscular endurance I played basketball in middle school and I was so horrible, I ran track when I was fast.
Speaker 1:But I didn't like the practices yeah, sprints.
Speaker 5:And then I played muscular endurance to be able to sustain that for a true two minutes nowadays. I don't know why I like this game.
Speaker 1:But I did not play.
Speaker 3:It's really important.
Speaker 1:I found when I found taekwondo, which was pretty young and I needed it for self-defense.
Speaker 3:I didn't really do.
Speaker 1:Taekwondo to go to the.
Speaker 2:Olympics, yeah.
Speaker 1:then when I started to compete, I liked being able to hit people I liked being able to hit people and I liked it because it wasn't a team sport. I'm just curious.
Speaker 5:Young, did you play other sports or not too much?
Speaker 1:I was a peace and love kid. I was. I was a hippie, my mom was a hippie, so I had long hair and I really didn't want to fight. And like she made me when I was five years old and this is a story in my book, right Um, and it talks about me being five years old and my I'm in the courtyard because I lived in you know, like the garden apartments, yeah, and these I had a fight and my sister protected me. So my sister brought me back in the house. She was a year younger and um told my mother. My mother took me by the hand, didn't say anything, took me outside, told me to point out the kid. Now she says go back in there and fight until he cries so I did because I had a choice.
Speaker 1:And then I never wanted to fight again, to the point where, when I turned nine, I was reading all these bruce tegner books about martial arts. So I had like learned judo sweeps and I karate punches and um. Then I walked by a taekwondo school in Hoboken, new Jersey, and started training with this student of mine, my Korean instructor, this gentleman, master Anthony Alvarez who was a national champion.
Speaker 5:I know you didn't play organized sports growing up and then you got into martial arts. I know you said you used it for self-defense, and then you came out with cabarrus. Did you like fighting when you were young, before you did martial arts?
Speaker 3:Really.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't have a choice because the school I walked into was all fighters. In other words, I was in a school of 25 people.
Speaker 1:And the way you survived the school was the first day you went in. You trained and then you fought. And if you came back the next day, you know, and I remember being like nine or whatever, and I'd be like they'd be like he's at the end of the class, he goes line up and I just kind of stand there, he goes, you too. Wow, Where'd you grow up? Where'd you grow up? Where'd you grow up? Where'd you grow up? Is that that's a nice? That's a nice area. You didn't grow up in the hood or anything, right okay, but how long wait?
Speaker 5:okay, so you do all that. You didn't really like to fight.
Speaker 1:You get into martial arts if you don't understand the word hood, you didn't grow up in the hood, I mean I don't know if you're good right away or bad right away, but when you got in there, how quickly did you?
Speaker 5:because everyone knows that you're just. You are a brutal guy, you're a brutal trainer.
Speaker 1:What did your parents do growing up?
Speaker 5:You liked violence. So how early on did on? Did you know that you could be a good fighter?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so your working class family. Yeah, so you had a. You know what we would call, the same as me, a blue-collar upbringing right, and your parents worked hard, so you had a place and things to do and you had money to be able to see your dreams through. Coach Rebner, where'd you grow up?
Speaker 5:Here too. How about you TJ?
Speaker 2:I would fight if I had to. I didn't like to fight. Let's start with sports.
Speaker 5:Did you play other sports?
Speaker 2:a little bit of football a little bit of like 99 under football. I ran a little bit of track in late middle school, early high school, but it was that at that point it was more so. Just I was trying to use it for sport conditioning in my head. But I grew up in alexandria, virginia, so right outside like dc and uh, maryland area. I mean it was normal, normal life for me. I don't, I don't, I don't understand the word hood like for me it was normal. I mean we had good pockets of our neighborhood. We had worse pockets of our neighborhood. I understand the word hood, I understand what you're saying. I mean we were. For me it was the neighborhood, and I know it's. Maybe that's not the the best answer, but that was it was.
Speaker 5:You know, my dad was a bus driver, my mom was a produce manager for the yeah, I grew up in Illinois, in the suburb of Chicago, and I have a place called Zion. It was where I spent most of my life, you know, when I kind of my formidable years, but, like differently, I played all sports. I played baseball, I played soccer, I played hockey. I literally played organized sports since I was five, you know, and different than maybe you guys. Like, yeah, we had some very bad areas where I grew up and like I literally fought every day, like I remember walking home and we'd go to a field and the big guys.
Speaker 1:But you like you said something interesting. My name was Mike. I like I did it for self-defense in the beginning, Because when I was little my grandparents called me Mike because my middle name is began. I like competition.
Speaker 4:And so when I first went to school as a kindergartner.
Speaker 5:I wanted to be called.
Speaker 4:Juan, that I could fight.
Speaker 1:I love fighting I had friends from the street, from the neighborhood that called me Mike, and then people at school that called me Juan but the big kids would literally go.
Speaker 5:Mikey and I would literally have a fight every day in the boulevard with some kid.
Speaker 1:They put me with.
Speaker 4:I mean every day, when. I was in kindergarten and first grader.
Speaker 5:So and I don't know for me I don't know one of the guys who taught me one of the best lessons in my life, besides a little shit the people I was super, super small. Um was mark williams I was good at fighting and I and I liked to fight and I, like he, I wasn't afraid to fight.
Speaker 4:I mean, I don't care if he was a team sport or not but and mark when I, by the time I got to martial arts. A guy like oh, you don't want to fight, all right, I'll fight heavyweight. I'll never forget my first practice.
Speaker 1:I'll never forget my first.
Speaker 3:Saturday of sparring and he had gear on and he put a kid in front of me and I just first punched him in the face and I busted his nose. So he made a lot of guys tough.
Speaker 1:He made Kevin.
Speaker 5:Padilla tougher and I had to push up on the linoleum with my knuckles and I was like I went home crying to my parents because, like what happened, I'm like. I put this thing in his face because I didn't know like I'm like you want me to fight. Okay, this is fun and so you well, that's what surprised me, that you didn't fight growing up, because I know how much you love fighting right now with us.
Speaker 3:Thank you let's go.
Speaker 5:Let's go like this, because I'm looking at your list of stuff. Let me ask I'm going to just take over real fast what made me?
Speaker 1:special about fighting? Was that? What made me special about fighting was that I applied science to it.
Speaker 5:What made you special? What made you special as a fighter?
Speaker 3:Because I know you put that on there.
Speaker 4:Okay, we talked about athletes and the people. We were talking about kind of development but, like you, specifically.
Speaker 1:TJ, if you had to characterize yourself, what made you unique, different, because how many people you came up with? I know a lot of people you came up with.
Speaker 2:And how did you become special, different, unique, I think? If I can start at the bottom, like with the upbringing part, I think I, like I said I never would choose to fight when I was younger. I never go looking for a fight, like, obviously, if I had to defend myself, I'm going to defend myself, you know. But I think I was taught how to fight. I think I was able to learn the sport, and for good reason, like I think, like you said, when I started I was super small compared to everybody else Tidier, smallest person in the room, lowest belt in the room. No-transcript. I mean probably my, I think, the understanding of, like fighting in general, um, just the overall sense of it young.
Speaker 5:what about you? What made you special, unique, early, you took the earlier push in a lot of people.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's cool. I mean mean you know what for me, I, I, I hear a lot of things oh, he's talented, he was this, he's that, but I, I think what gets lost with me is my work ethic and tj. You know, because you live me a long time, I like to work, I like to run, I like to kick, I like to practice, I like to kick, I like to practice, I like to lift. And you know, people always said one's talented, but like I enjoyed the growth now, 55 years old, 54 years old, and I go to the gym every day at 6 am. Like I, I enjoy working hard and I know that for me, I learned early on that I was process orientated and so do I have a certain amount of gifts and a certain amount of intelligence I do think I have maybe more than the average person. But my work ethic, I mean I'd put up up next to anybody, and not just for the moment that it was important, I mean all the time, even now, and I think it carries, you know, with me in my, my business and with my life, and blah, blah, blah. So I think what made me special was my work ethic.
Speaker 5:You know from from a really, really early age and I always get like frustrated when I hear people say, oh, that person loves it and they're so dedicated to it. And I think they love it, they're dedicated to it because they're good at it and because it's rewarding them. But I was never like that, I mean literally. I mean I know it sounds like Rocky-like, but I'm running in the streets at five o'clock in the morning before school, there's nobody outside, it's freaking 20 below, like that kind of stuff, and I didn't have to do that, but I just wanted to do that.
Speaker 5:And this was before. I was even good before. I was even on a national team. So I think a little bit of mindset. Like you said, tj, I was brought up with a strong, you know, family background. I was brought up with some strong minded coaches and I, you know I never had a challenge in front of me that that I didn't think was fixable. I mean, I really believe that I don't care who you are, I can figure out the puzzle, I can solve the puzzle, puzzle. I never, ever was like that's insurmountable, ever, you know. So I think that kind of made me a little unique.
Speaker 2:But anyway, when did you just start, like when you stopped doing all the other sports and start tech one though?
Speaker 5:that's a good. So specializing, yes, yeah, and I think that's a good question. So mine was a little bit later. I mean, I was pretty serious about taekwondo from the time I was in like sixth grade. But I still played basketball in sixth and seventh and eighth grade, but I stopped growing and everybody just shot past me. So I just, it wasn't for me. The only sport that I kept with was soccer. I just and I hate you, oh, it's because you're with your feet Now, I don't know why. No, I just I played soccer, I just, and I hate you, oh, it's because you're with your feet now, I don't know why. No, I just I played. I kept playing soccer all the way through high school, even through my olympic stuff. Um is when I stopped but it's late.
Speaker 4:What's late?
Speaker 5:I started specializing. I would if I had a pinpoint of time is late. You started when specializing freshman year of high school because I played soccer. But I played it.
Speaker 1:That's like that's the right time, I thought. But that's because when I specialized and I'm saying specialized I mean I cut everything else out. I got really better at it. But here's what the Olympic Committee says I didn't do extra, I wasn't on travel teams.
Speaker 4:I didn't go to camps.
Speaker 1:I played it for my high school and then that was it, and this is a story that I used to talk to.
Speaker 3:I had a gym teacher and I remember being in football.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry in PE class and I would run and I remember the first time I ran a five-minute mile and I said I'm going to run four times before the coach blows the whistle.
Speaker 3:And those are the things that matter.
Speaker 5:He says hey why don't you come out and play GB?
Speaker 1:or YC for us and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to take one of those and you take one of that, I take one of that, and after the Olympics, when I came back.
Speaker 3:He remembered it, I didn't remember it, yeah listen to me.
Speaker 4:I'm the one that told you don't worry about that, take one of that crap. I don't worry about that.
Speaker 5:He's like little, so you specialize too early and then it actually burns you out and destroys your muscle building. So when you specialize too early you get a certain set of sport-specific muscles.
Speaker 1:And you're always competing at that level and that's your world. So, my son did a ton of sports. He didn't specialize in soccer till late middle school. Yeah, no, no. He did soccer his whole life but he stopped playing other sports high school he played basketball, he did football. He did all the sports and he did soccer year-round, but he didn't specialize in it.
Speaker 3:Thank you God.
Speaker 1:So you stopped playing on teams because you wanted to or because they never picked you?
Speaker 5:Pretty early.
Speaker 3:What do you?
Speaker 5:How about you, tj Wade? I mean, what do you think, especially in Tijuana right now? When is specialization okay?
Speaker 2:I think I would go all the way down to, at the latest, 12 and 13, just because of all the different things. I'm not a big fan of the, the cadet system, all that stuff. I think at 12 and 13, working through the system into like the regular junior division is a good time, like for me. I think I stopped doing everything around so I started at 11. I stopped probably taking any other sports seriously or playing on. I didn't play on many teams and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Probably after, right at 12 and 13 years old in high school I ran a little bit of track but, like I said, it was more so for my endurance, for a Taekwondo. You know what I mean. So I was trying to do something extra, do something more. But I would say about 12 and 13 is when I kind of stopped it. No, I just had no, yeah, never, nah, stop um, um, I think uh, I just had no strong interest in doing those other things. Like it didn't draw me in, like like taekwondo did. It's crazy because I think at that time I was definitely more afraid of fighting than I was to go and shoot a ball in a basket or play football and tackle. I know, but for some reason taekwondo or fighting drew me in and I just stayed there.
Speaker 5:So about 12 and 13, it was kind of all or nothing I think, it's interesting because I mean, again, in our country, in america, man, we have some badass little kids right, because they're they're damn. The accessibility to good training and good coaches is there. Accessibility to good competitions and travel is there because we're a richer country. You know, when you look at some of these other countries, they tend to develop a little bit later. You know, I know that the, you know european and the eastern european model is a way later development. They, they believe in playing and playing games. And, katija, you know, we've gone to like some European camps and we're playing all these little weird games and we're kind of like yo man, are we going to train? But this is how they keep their longevity. It's not. They're not redlining it all the time and that's the problem.
Speaker 5:I wanted to talk about that, the specialization here in America, just in Taekwondo in general, because I could talk about a specific athlete in a second. But I feel like we have these badass 11 and 12 and 13-year-olds and then also I just don't see them at 16, 17, 18. It's like they're cadet champions, but then I don't know, it could be a factors, it could be they don't grow, it could be they're burnt out because they get injured. I mean we're seeing a lot more injuries now because people are going, they're specializing and it's the weight cutting.
Speaker 2:It's the, it's the weight cutting. It has to be the weight cutting. Like I know and I think I've said this before, but I didn't cut weight until my first year of seniors. Every year I went up a division for juniors every single year, and obviously probably not the best case scenario because you want to, you know, normalize and blah, blah, blah, but I think it's the weight cut, it's the. When we go back to body frames and all that stuff like that, the tall kid, whether we say it or not as coaches, I think the world tech window world knows like, oh, look at this tall kid. You know there's no way. He's probably eating what he should be eating. Like, let's be honest about it, yeah, you know. So I think that kind of determines a lot of that burnout. Also, like I said about the cadet system, I think trying to win too early yeah, I think those are supposed to be developing.
Speaker 5:Obviously you want tournaments and blah, blah, blah and all that stuff, but I think the weight fighting thing is is true, tj, and I think it's. Uh, I know they went to the day because, again, you're here too, you wait in the morning right, yeah, tj, never. There's a reason I don't coach I don't sit
Speaker 4:in chairs after that I think and the reason I don't sit in chairs anymore is I don't have anything to add to the conversation. So if people might trade.
Speaker 3:I think it's worse because people know they got time.
Speaker 5:I'm telling you, I'm in people that you fight TJ and you knew it. They would have waited at 7 o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4:There's no way it would have been anything with you at 10 o'clock in the morning Dead. So I actually think you've been worse, weighing in the deep before, is that safer Is means, is that I? Have stuff to add to the conversation and this is probably the way, in part you experienced it because when we developed the coaching, program I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know. You told me taekwondo still tries to use um we I was a gatekeeper, I was a torchbearer.
Speaker 3:I didn't develop, where I was, the content. You guys developed the content, I organized it and added my experience to it. So my coaching style right now. I get way too frustrated and I can see, just like my instructors probably could see in my game, things that would help them.
Speaker 2:And I was reviewing one of my athletes' fights this weekend with him.
Speaker 4:And then I gave him a very specific thing, so that's my role now.
Speaker 5:That's my coaching style now, but you know me as a coach. You talked about coaching styles. Do you think coaching styles is a real thing? I?
Speaker 1:was ridiculous. I'd take an athlete that wasn't listening or performing and in the middle of a fight I'd yell at them, threaten them, hit them to get them to perform. And that was oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I don't know. I mean the story is, if you were ever there, you saw it Like there was an athlete, livo.
Speaker 1:He only performed if he was under direct threat of a coach who was willing to kill him. And so at the World Championships, between rounds, I talked to him the first, second round. He wasn't listening. So by the third round, when he came back to the chair, I punched him in the chest and I told him listening. So by the third round, when he came back to the chair, I punched him in the chest and I told him if you don't do what I tell you to do, I am going to run into the ring and kick you in the face. I will kill you. Go in the fight and do what I tell you to do.
Speaker 1:And the referee actually came over and was trying to figure out what to do with me because he didn't know if he could give me a warning, right? So the athlete goes in and performs. And, by the way, I did this at nationals too, because that's the only way he performed. He beat Jeff Pinterrock within an inch of his life, to my delight, and so he goes in and every time he kicks the athlete he turns around to look at me to see if I'm going to come in and get him. And then he's so like amped up that he kicks the guy. Guy falls on the floor on his hands and knees and he runs over and punts the guy in the chest Like he just loses his mind. But yeah, not the best coaching style but it worked for him.
Speaker 3:So you know. But there are other guys we we've talked about before that had you know, but there are other guys we we've talked about before.
Speaker 1:That had you know there was a coach that went in and had the athletes sit down and sat him down and looked at him and said take off your helmet. And as soon as he took off his helmet he slapped him in the face as hard as he could and he says do I have your attention now? And uh, you know, I was like. You know I I didn't sit in that coach's chair, by the way. I stood and didn't take my hand.
Speaker 5:Hey Pumper. Thanks Mark.
Speaker 2:They will now. Thank you. Well, what about you? You think coaching things are real or coaching styles? I think when I hear the question, I think more like um, like in gym coaching or or style of coaching, or expectations of you know what you expect from the athletes.
Speaker 2:I think in chair, a lot of different things can happen in the chair of the competition. Sometimes you got to be the, a barky coach, sometimes you got to be the let me wipe your nose coach, depending on the situation. Whatever you got going on that day, I think. But um, I, I would. I think there is a method of coaching that that, that, um, that people have, I wouldn't say style, but I think the word method makes, makes more sense and um, I think, once, when you understand the game or understand where we are now I think that's what kind of dictates and I think also understand the people that you're working with. So I would say yes and no.
Speaker 2:I think a coach and my coaches have always had full skill sets. They can do anything and everything, whatever needs to be done, and I felt like their finger was always on the pulse. So if something needed to be changed in training, it wasn't necessarily okay. You know they weren't afraid to turn the wheel to the left a little bit because they saw that that was going to get the room to where they needed to go. So I guess they were more like goal oriented kind of coaching as opposed to on the spot. Let it has to be this, this, this and this, and if that formula works out it's great. But I think the people that I was able to work with growing up just had their their finger on a pulse a little bit and kind of they knew when to push and pull and to go left and to go right. You know.
Speaker 5:I think what gets lost is and because I'm a sports person, I think this also made me unique, because I played so many sports I kind of got an idea. But listen, let's use American football. American football you have to tackle, you have to block, you have to pass, you have to run, you have to catch Boxing. You have to tackle, you have to block, you have to pass, you have to run, you have to catch Boxing. You have to jab, you have to cross, you have to hook, you have to uppercut.
Speaker 5:There's certain things in all sports that are across the board. Everybody has to have them. Now, how you teach them? There's a method. There's.
Speaker 5:You know, what's important in your style of football is the brand of football that you have. Or basketball Some people believe you shoot three players and run up and down. Some people mean you have 10, 12 passes. Some football teams, they run the ball. Some people throw the ball, some people win a defense. So I actually believe there is a coaching style and there is a method. There is a certain standard that everybody should have to be successful. But if I'm a front leg style or I'm a clinch style or I'm a defensive style, now you're right, tj.
Speaker 5:I think that a good coach, because we're not teaching a team sport so we can't play one way. You're going to have different bodies, you have different ethnic backgrounds, you have different social and economic backgrounds and each kid, kid, each athlete will have a different characteristic and a good coach could tap into all of them. But unfortunately we don't have individual, individual, individual trainings. We train in a group setting in an individual sport. So I do believe there is a method. I mean, there is a, a peak brand of fighting. You know, it's kind of changed a little bit.
Speaker 3:I found a Coaches like Terrence and coaches like Boyd. I was watching Coach Lee yesterday and he was doing a drill.
Speaker 1:We literally did the same drill and then he had another little thing in his own movie. I'm like we literally been.
Speaker 3:I was like look at how our philosophies are very, very similar.
Speaker 4:Even though we're outside.
Speaker 3:We have a brand we have a style of the way we do things, and that's how we go about coaching.
Speaker 5:So I know you can look at one coach and say, man Ramos is a fiery coach.
Speaker 3:I'm dragging is a fiery coach.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:You look at some.
Speaker 5:Tony, he's kind of quiet until he has to bark. I think the styles in the area can change depending on the situation, but I do believe that there's different methodologies to getting the job done in a coaching format. Listen, I've seen a lot of what I thought were good coaches, and then, when I see the methodology, Anyway, I apologize for the language, but that is one of my favorite videos.
Speaker 3:That's actually a guy who was on an Olympic pathway, and then his eye got dislodged and ended up coaching in Wall Street and that video goes around the internet and my favorite quote for him is, he goes.
Speaker 5:Not everything is for everybody he goes. Some people are made of leather, some people are not.
Speaker 1:Sorry to say that, but and I, uh, that's the truth. You know, if you ever want to, you ever want to have 10 seconds of fun.
Speaker 3:Listen to. You got to watch that whole video.
Speaker 2:But uh, anyway, go ahead, I love the one, you know. Yeah, I've seen that one before well, that's because that was a good one, the thing in Waddle cultural memories.
Speaker 1:So the one thing that you can say for certain, at least in the older style of fighting, maybe not in the newer style was a thin weight and a heavy weight, that's a different game. A fin weight and a feather weight, that's a different game. Feather and light, you can kind of lump together and maybe put a welter in light, or feather and bantam. But fin and fly, that's a different game. And heavy and middle, even between heavy and middle, is a different game.
Speaker 2:One so do you think that I guess I would understand when we talk about individuals, yeah like I said I know it's funny you brought up the boxing thing.
Speaker 2:I think that's how boxing is. I think that if the fighters fall, they fall with someone that knows how to like make their attributes come out, obviously, and that's what that's what we do. You know what I mean. That's what I think that's what you're supposed to do as a coach. I know we tend to work in group settings from a developmental standpoint, but once you hit the national team levels and everything like that, like I think that's definitely should be some kind of like specialization. I think everybody can do everything, or should be forced to do everything in the same way. You know, I think that's the part where it gets a little chunky for me, and I think some of the success pockets for these other countries are because I think they've understood how to like specialize for certain athletes in certain situations.
Speaker 5:But I think that's interesting because we all train. I mean it's funny, I'm going to go back to Korea, I'll go back to us and I think we trained in a group setting and then we did our specialization later on. So I I agree you can't train everybody the same way, and I think you're right, tj, as you get to the top right, once you have these fundamentals, you're a you're a good. You're good at Taekwondo. Fundamentally, you're good at physical shape, and then you start to specialize in your style and your unique ability. I think certain times I was going to transition to it.
Speaker 5:It's taboo for an athlete to be with one instructor and then change with somebody else. Sometimes they change for the wrong reason, because they think the grass is greener on the other side, because some coach sweet talks them and says come over here, we're really good, and the people they drink the juice. That's happened for many, many years. But I think a smart athlete and a smart parent, maybe even a smart coach, would find somebody and say you know what that style or that person would work with my athlete? Because that's what they do.
Speaker 5:A football player, if I'm a quarterback, I'm not going to a running school, I'm going to a coach that's going to air the ball out. Right, if I'm a running back, I'm not going to a program that's going to throw the ball 40 times a game. I want them to hand the ball off 30 times and it's the same thing. Tj, you know you've had athletes, I've had athletes that work with you and you were able to get their skill set. You've pinpointed a unique skill set mentally, emotionally, technically and then you were able to maximize their ability and the results. If they jump to another program, for some reason that person doesn't get it. Also, that same athlete looks average at best. So I think it's interesting like, do you jump to a successful program or do you find a coach that works uniquely with your, with your style?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know I I've again. I was in a situation I left um coach remark school and came to miami, florida. You know what I mean. I'm looking at the, the guy who gave me like the best of what I had growing up in my whole base set and and coach salim as well.
Speaker 2:I got to work with him as well and you know, making those decisions and moving around it had to. Always it was based off of it was based, it was based off the coach and for me, the environment and the environment in which the coach developed, the environment in which the coach pushed, were the important things. You know, it's hard to say successful, successful, coach in a sense, because I mean I'm not sure what we view as success anymore. How about that? Yeah, how about that? I'm not sure where the line of what's successful and what's not successful lies. So it would have to be for me, if I was making a decision, it would be the room, obviously with the people, but also how the coach interacts with those people in the room. How does he get the best out of those people in the room? How does he get the best out of those people in a room? That's gonna, in return, make me better. You know what I mean, um, but definitely probably looking for it at this day and age, for and I hate to say it, probably looking for it's got to be a coaching situation, because I think when I say winning, I mean I think win consistently, like that's.
Speaker 2:That was always a difference between, I think, before the ranking points and now with the ranking points, like you wanted wanted to. The only thing you had was I got to win this tournament and I got to go in the next tournament. I got to win the next tournament. You weren't worried about getting eight points here, seven points here, falling in a pocket. You wanted to to win every single time you were out, and I think that kind of changed a little bit. So for me it would have to be being with a coach that can understand you, develop you and get you to a point where you can win consistently. In this arena of some of the programs being higher level programs or having more funding or having a better situation in general, I like that a lot because you say define winning and stuff like that, you know, and consistency.
Speaker 5:I like to use the word performing because sometimes you fight well and you don't get a medal. You know what I'm saying. And so when I look at these athletes that are hot and cold, hot and cold, hot and cold, I see these programs that have a bunch of athletes and no athletes in there, a couple of good athletes and results, and then nothing, like I don't value them. I don't value them at all. You know, I think that a room is important, but I think it's more how the conducts the room. You know, I mean we are specializing more and more and more and it is difficult to get 15, you know I'm going to use a bad word killers in the room. You know, like, where you got. You know 20, 30 people. We always talk about that all the time. I mean right, yeah, I mean I was. You know I'm looking at this. You know I'm in Peru and I'm watching the whole Brazil team and then some other people, and I'm looking, I'm going and we have 25 quality people on this mat right now and even if we were all together, holy cow, and it's hard. We don't have a centralized training and that's not the method over there. But I think the room is important, but how the person conducts the room, because you could put a bunch of good people in there.
Speaker 5:Put the wrong coach that doesn't know how to relate, like you said, individually, that doesn't know how to motivate, discipline, inspire, then you got a problem Because you know you run in there. What creates longevity? That's what creates longevity the coach's ability to motivate, teach and inspire, to, to discipline all in the right balance. You could be the greatest technician in the world, but if you don't know how to inspire or discipline, how are you going to keep the room under control If all you do is discipline? You know and rah, rah, rah, but you don't have the technical expertise.
Speaker 5:That's why I mean, again, I'm going to throw some shade at some people, but I see some people that they're good for the moment and then you don't see. So I have to question how thorough are they as a coach? You know what? Again, I'm using sports. Look at the NFL. Right here in Miami you got this head coach that has lost his team. Then you got a guy like Ed Reed. I'm sorry, ed Reed. Andy Reed, sorry from the Kansas City Chiefs Old cat, how is he able to do it? His method, his ability to reach those guys? You know what I'm saying. So you can use the old and, just because you have the new cool talk and the cool, jump on the box and jump off the box and, you know, do some crazy drill.
Speaker 3:It doesn't make it right.
Speaker 1:It doesn't make it consistent. And that's what I've seen. I mean, I look at even around the world. I see hot teams come and go. I see hot coaches come and go.
Speaker 5:And I almost have to say, are they?
Speaker 4:running an athlete or two or three, and they got a couple of good athletes and people gravitate towards them. So what do they do with their money? For me, that's the site of a good program.
Speaker 5:In.
Speaker 4:America I see some really good cadet programs.
Speaker 1:I know we've been talking a lot about Charlie Schnee and that's a real program.
Speaker 4:That guy, that girl. He does a good job with these.
Speaker 5:It's pretty funny but you know there's something to be said in a weird way, which is so.
Speaker 1:It's a I think it's a little controversial in our country, you know. But when I look at other countries, I always say one of the most underrated coaches in the world is Tony from Croatia. That dude has been around for a long time you know, social media stuff, as we thought about those things all the coaches you're talking about probably you look at the Thai coach, the Thai coach, the Korean guy Choi, because you can't develop sustained competitive excellence without having a performance first culture, so you may not get the result you want but how did?
Speaker 1:you perform right the kids I go back to my son's soccer thing, which I don't know anything about, but they played during academy. They played a very good academy team, lafc, from Los Angeles, and they're going down to play LA Galaxy this weekend. So they played a good game. It was 2-2. And then at the last second second, a guy scores a goal on the other team, right, and it was almost an own goal, right. So when you look at that game as a whole, the game was a great performance game two great teams playing each other, great, great. You look at the result, you could yell it yeah, they lost. And so what was the outcome? Well, their coach who was, by the way, the olympic coach, coach covello, for the earthquakes, he was an olympic coach, assistant coach at the last olympics he said great performance. He said unfortunate outcome, but we, we, we dominated the ball, we, and so he had exactly the right mentality, right, and I look even we've always talked about this. So you want to know a trait that an athlete should have An athlete should be able to schedule and review.
Speaker 1:So, immediately after a match, they should ask themselves those five questions that we developed and at the end of that they should review what went well, what went less well and then think about that in the terms of that. They should review what went well, what went less well and then think about that in the terms of performance, whether they won or lost. And if you have that ability to remember, self-reflect and then make solutions for the outcomes, then you will be a great athlete, not a good athlete. You'll become a great athlete. The difference between good and bad athletes is their ability to absent the outliers, their ability to intellectualize the sport, in other words, understand the playing environment. Sport, it's called sport IQ now. Their ability to understand the playing environment, what's necessary to succeed in it, how they performed in that environment, and make corrective actions to win. That's it Right. And by bipolar, no, by winning. Anyway, thank you.
Speaker 5:Thank you, I don't know, tj, like do you have like a mantra for your, your school, like I mean, maybe it's not a one that you post or something like that, but like if you, if you close your eyes and stuff like that and you say you know, especially cause you know you've been, I feel weird with for you because I know you've been coaching for a long time and I mean you've coached the damn Olympic games, you coached the world's amateurs, grand Prix's, you know everywhere, and then. But now you have your own, like I said, a inside your brain or a written like kind of philosophy that you say this is how I envision everything.
Speaker 2:I think for me and like kind of like the it's, it's, it's happened to all of us, I mean.
Speaker 1:I, you know, I go back to 1991, right.
Speaker 2:And I'm fighting Korea the semifinals and I fought a great match.
Speaker 3:right Score wasn't score was even, even, even, even, and the last round, they gave the match, they gave the superiority career and so.
Speaker 2:I fought a great match. I mean unbelievable match, so the performance was amazing. The outcome wasn't what I wanted, nor was it fair. That's a different story but it is what it is.
Speaker 1:So when I walked away from that match. I had a reflection, because there's first the initial anger whether you're a coach or an athlete?
Speaker 3:and then there's a second one, which is okay. Let me look at this on balance.
Speaker 1:How did I really do it?
Speaker 2:And I've had my share of matches where I probably should have lost and I won, and I wasn't happy with that either. I think that the winner should win and the loser should lose, but again you've got
Speaker 3:to go back to performance first, winning second, and I think that's a great coach.
Speaker 5:And that's a conversation for another day.
Speaker 4:I think there's going to be a part B on this.
Speaker 5:You know what you got?
Speaker 4:unlucky to the ball, bounce and win the goal. You know what I'm saying it was a great game.
Speaker 3:You got unlucky. You kicked the spot you're supposed to. You set the trap like you're supposed to. You did a move that you're supposed to and the electronic didn't go off what is necessary?
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, it's a lot yeah.
Speaker 5:I mean I have same question.
Speaker 5:I have a couple different things, but let's just say I have a couple different how we compete, how we train. One of my personal coaching philosophy is old school work ethic with a new school motivation. You know me, I'm an old school guy, I'm a no frills guy. You come to my gym. It's not pretty, there's no air conditioning, blah, blah, blah. I don't put up with bullshit. You don't like it, you can leave. I mean very simple in my gym I don't care if it's a mom, dad, athlete, it's my way or no way, that's just only way the. You know I'm not gonna let the athletes or the you know convicts run the asylum. You know the inmates run the asylum. So I'm a very old school like that. I talked about it earlier.
Speaker 1:I like to work hard. I think we've only scratched the surface, so I think we need to. You have to lose weight. We lost more weight than me, so that's your problem, your choice.
Speaker 3:You know I can help you get to help.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, if you choose to fight a certain way, don't complain about it. So I too easy to take shots at organizations and individuals and performances, I think at the end of the day, the intellectual capacity of this group and the people that listen and interact
Speaker 3:with us deserves more.
Speaker 1:We're going to do this again and I want to pick up where we left off.
Speaker 5:I want to think about it, because I think you said a, even though I'm 54 years old. I've been able to keep that modernization.
Speaker 3:So old school work ethic old school mentality, new school and then adapting to the athletes, as you find them, because there's no doubt that we have a different generation of people, that think
Speaker 5:differently and they couldn't flourish in a different environment.
Speaker 1:So how do you?
Speaker 5:get the best gym ten years late and act like you're on a freaking vacation.
Speaker 1:And they couldn't. The next minute I could be like you ought to be out of your damn mind. They wouldn't flourish in a different environment.
Speaker 3:So how do you get the best? It doesn't matter. How do you get the most out of them, because that's what you have and I'm not talking about.
Speaker 5:Taekwondo in general. I'm just talking about people in general. For me it's a little bit of a balance. It served me well. So this is kind of a philosophical debate, you know. I mean, like you said, young, I think we could get into maybe something even more detailed and more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure I like the ER thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, I watch my son's practice every day, and then the ride home.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Dude, I don't interact, but when he gets in the car I'm like all right, yeah.
Speaker 5:How was?
Speaker 1:that touch. How was this? Because that's you know, I want him to be successful. And then I realized it may not be the, it's an old school mentality, but you know it's, it is what it is. You know I had, I was, I was self-modulating.
Speaker 5:I mean, I think that we were harder on ourselves than any coach or pop really.
Speaker 1:So the new?
Speaker 4:you know, I had a kid, I have a kid in my class my regular taekwondo class and I I had a kid in my class, my regular taekwondo class and I say okay, come on this side room.
Speaker 5:He goes. Why I go? Why I go? Do I look like your mother or your father? I'm not your mother. I'm not your father. I'm not your friend. I'm not your teacher in school.
Speaker 3:You shouldn't say to them either, but that's on them.
Speaker 5:Here. We don't have a why.
Speaker 1:Why? Because I told you to do it, but nowadays that's another factor. You've got the parents that are so involved Every day, in practice, every competition.
Speaker 3:I mean watching videos. I saw one of my parents the other day.
Speaker 5:I was like hey, look at Coach. He's out there talking to another dad. You're a servant, You're a servant. This is a kingdom and I'm in charge. I am the king.
Speaker 3:That's a real thing. I'm the king, and so you need to learn that in life, because you're going to have to actually enter the real world, and the real world doesn't care how you feel they don't care, you can't go to HR and I know you guys have seen that video.
Speaker 1:Do you ever see that video of the HR girl? Oh, you want to see it, I'll send it to you privately, it's oh, you want to see it, I'll send it to you privately.
Speaker 5:Yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, which is which is okay, which is okay, right. But I mean, listen, if you want to put up with um, you want to put up with that, that's up to you. In other words, if you want to, if you, as an individual want to put up with it, I don't think it's okay. In other words, I think that in life, you know and I've talked about this before you have a perform, you're, I have a professor, but the professor was two years older than me, but he was my professor in law school. Right Went to Harvard. I see him to this day. I call him professor. I have a professor. I have a dean. I call him dean. I have an instructor. I call him grandma, whatever that's me, I'm just old school that way.
Speaker 2:Once you have that relationship, I don't want you to violate that relationship and violate that relationship and I don't want you to don't call me, don't, we're not gonna hang out. Um, let me tell you, I feel like I've been check window and much our schools was. I mean, we talk about old school, new school but like I feel like I figured that out really early, really fast, without being like part that you know. I guess I mean that the whole rest of the room was in order, so you knew that you just did what you were told.
Speaker 5:That was a part of it, like it's also also a societal thing, right, you learn it from your parents. You learn in this school. Like you said, young you're, you're, you're. Analogy right there. What's is is spot on. That's how people are nowadays. They ask questions instead of being, instead of following orders. There's time to talk and time to listen, is it? Is it? I think we need to teach that. Of course, let's see, we're gonna, we're good, I think it's.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's about like you know. I think we're going to just make sure I go. People need to be robots or say, yes, there are no sort of stuff. You know, I guess the biggest thing for me, what I didn't feel a need as an athlete and I try to give my athletes the same feeling- oh, yeah, oh yeah, to have to question them because I knew, I knew I had, I had that conversation every day with a parent.
Speaker 3:I have that conversation and you guys know my new model is really simple I come in, I flip the script, I come in, I said thank you for coming in. Today is an interview and an assessment.
Speaker 5:The assessment will be of your child's physical capacities and I'm going to interview you after interviewing you today
Speaker 4:if you're a good fit for me and my program, I will take you.
Speaker 5:If you're not a good fit for me, I'll suggest other places you can go that might be a better fit for you. If I don't think you're a good fit for anyone, I won't recommend anywhere else. And they all look at me and I go I'm old, I'm a unicorn.
Speaker 3:There's only one of me in the entire world.
Speaker 4:I'm an Olympic gold medalist in a 9th degree black belt in my school. You're on a football team.
Speaker 5:You're there to be coached and I'm a role model and I don't want to waste time with people that I'm not going to be able to benefit but we've gone way past that. You're interviewing us as well. I get that. It's a good fit for you.
Speaker 4:You're proud but, by no stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 5:Because adults like us, they're too afraid to parent. We're choosing you for our community.
Speaker 4:That's what's great about.
Speaker 3:March to our schools. It's like look, I tell it all the time, I'm like here, we're the boss here. This is how we do things.
Speaker 1:This is how people perform this is how Master Merrill teaches and talks. I don't even talk to, I walk away, do their job and parent. Yesterday, which was I said I don't parent parents, but I will give you my advice. I said when, when you bring your son oh, I'm struggling to bring Johnny to Taekwondo, no, I don't struggle I say I have this conversation with my kids and you've heard this before. We're going to be doing this thing. Get ready, you can ask me one question. After you asked me that question, we're still doing it. So that's up to you. So my kids don't ask questions. They also can't make decisions, but that's a different story. But the reality is. And I tell the parents. I said, yeah, she goes, but yeah, but once I get him here I go. Yeah, I said he's a kid.
Speaker 1:And last story, because it's just a funny one, I had a long talk with this parent 20 years ago when I first opened a school in this community and a woman comes up to me and she goes oh, I had you know, master Perez, I had a long talk with my son, johnny, and Johnny I asked Johnny this and I asked Johnny that. And I asked Johnny and Johnny has decided and I go. So I look at her and I go I'm sorry. I said did you have another son? She goes no, I have one, it's my first child. I go. So you had a long talk with your three-year-old about what he'd like to do. I said, okay, watch this, johnny. How you doing today? Johnny, you love Taekwondo. Oh, yeah, yeah, you want to leave your house and move in here and teach taekwondo for me, don't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you want to come to taekwondo every day.
Speaker 1:And I look at the mom, I go what you value, johnny will value what you tell johnny, johnny, you'll like. That's reality and and that's the mentality that's been lost, because I do get those parents and those are the ones I don't take where they're like well, I talked to him and I go, and it was just the other day this was like a 12 year old, 11 or 10 year old. So I look at the mom and she tells me this and so she's going to bring the kid in for a second intro. She goes well, let me, I'm going to, I go. I said, I'm sorry, you're going to, you're the parent. No, you're not going to ask your son what he wants to do?
Speaker 1:No-transcript, I'll send you a way to spell it. But as always, you are a I like you for different reasons, but you also brought an interesting perspective because you're not as hardcore as Coach Moreno and I are in certain aspects of it, and so I kind of and haven't come up when you came up. You have an interesting blend, but as always, this has been the warehouse 15.
Speaker 1:And if we said something that offended you. We have accomplished our goal. Sorry, not sorry. We are so I think we are out. So I think.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I'll find out. Tj, that was awesome. Yeah, that was fine.
Speaker 4:Deuce.
Speaker 5:You know what I think is one of the most.