Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
The Ingredients of a World-Class Taekwondo Program Revealed
What separates momentary success from sustained dominance in athletic programs? In this thought-provoking episode, we dig deep into the architecture of championship development systems with insights from coaches who've produced world-class athletes.
Strong leadership emerges as the cornerstone of excellence. "The team takes on the identity of the coach," Coach Moreno explains, highlighting how programs with clear philosophical approaches create consistency that weathers competitive storms. While flashy techniques and scientific measurement tools have their place, mastery of fundamentals remains the bedrock of long-term excellence. Programs that maintain focus on core skills adapt better when competition formats evolve, demonstrating greater longevity.
We explore the delicate ecosystem of team composition – why the most successful training environments aren't simply collections of champions but diverse communities where different strengths complement each other. As Coach Moreno puts it, "You don't just build a room with a bunch of champions. You need tough guys, energy guys, developing guys."
The conversation tackles the tension between immediate results and developmental patience, warning against the "short-term mentality" that rushes athletes prematurely. Looking at successful sporting nations, we examine how investment in youth development creates sustained excellence through structured pathways for advancement.
Whether you're an athlete, coach, or program builder, this episode provides a blueprint for creating not just individual champions but generations of successful competitors who carry forward standards of excellence. Join us for insights that transcend any single sport and reveal the universal principles behind athletic greatness.
Welcome to the Warehouse 15. Today we are coming to you remote from my son's training facility. I won't let you see it because it's Secret Ops. You know, they're playing Seattle this weekend. So but uh I'd like to today we got a special second part of our episode where we were talking last week about athletic excellence, and we're talking about the tools for that. So I've got with us today, as usual, the master of all things silver. Coach Moreno, how are you doing today, sir?
SPEAKER_01:I am doing good. There's a lot of things I'm gonna throw at you real quick. Number one, Florida is now an open carry state. Before you could conceal, now you can open carry for those of you that carry. Number two.
SPEAKER_02:Is that uh is that alcohol? Open container carry?
SPEAKER_01:Open container, baby. Pow pow.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, oh, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:The New York Mets are about to have one of the biggest collapses in not history, but the big payroll, and they might not make the playoffs because yesterday the Miami Marlins beat them to knock them almost into third wild cart. Horrible. Something big I gotta talk about is Coach Jennings was named as the the senior national team coaching director for the AAU Taekwondo. So and last but not least, we'll get to that in a second. My hot topic, and I don't know if we go somewhere with this. Today it was reported that US in soccer, said you like soccer, is voting is voting to remove Israel from World Cup qualifying. Similar to how Russia was removed for their aggressions in Ukraine. Fair is fair. Fair is fair. Fair might be fair, but it's really controversial. But I'm not getting into it, but I think it's pretty big news, to be honest with you, because we're starting to get in. Um maybe you're just right, young. Fair might be fair. So I thought that was pretty interesting news for me.
SPEAKER_02:You know, it's uh we have a cultural thing that we do. Somebody bothers me or my family, then uh I deal with that reality in a very real sense. And so I get it. But then there comes a point where enough is enough. But I wanted to talk a little bit about what a beautiful blue shirt you have on today, coach. And I want to congratulate you on your new coaching position. Were you the minority higher, though? Because I noticed that the entire coaching staff was Korean and you were the pretty much the only non-Korean. What what was going on? Do you have a secret that we don't know? Are you married to a Korean? Did you take a do you have a Korean name? Uh what's going on with the AAU? Is there no diversity there? Where's my Puerto Rican brothers? We left, I think they left the Portuguese. They were looking for you, but they said they called your phone a couple times and you didn't answer. Too much. Too much. I'm too expensive. I cost too much money. I cost way too much money.
SPEAKER_03:I'm super excited to be a part of the team. I know you saw the makeup of the team. I have a lot of a lot of the coaches on the team I've you know had the pleasure of working with before and being a part and kind of being on a team with them. So I'm excited for this trip to Croatia and um definitely excited for the opportunity to kind of lead the senior team and you know, hopefully have a good trip.
SPEAKER_01:So some of these people won't know. I think Grandmaster of Disaster Perez will know this, and you know this, TJ. And I'm gonna make you mad right now, TJ. I'm gonna east of Croqueta.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I love Croquet. Oh, that's nothing, nothing, right? And I'm hungry because I tried to be on time today. So I would usually, while I'm watching my son practice, I usually go get a uh a bagel and I get uh and I get a Starbucks, but today I forwent far gone, the bagel and and the Starbucks. And I gotta be honest, the blue shirt just ain't enough for me to do that. So next time I'm getting my bagel.
SPEAKER_03:Uh famous Lacaletta. I think I'm moving back to Miami every week just for the coquetas and coffee, man. I swear it's not it's not the same nowhere else.
SPEAKER_01:It's from Lacaletta. Anywhere else.
SPEAKER_03:Anywhere else.
SPEAKER_01:Westchester, Bird Road. Anywhere. Hey, before we start, guys, I want to give a shout out. Young, you might know this guy. He's he's uh he's my age, maybe a little younger, I don't know, but um his name is Gary Martin Um from the West Coast, and um he developed this pro this uh this piece of equipment. It's called a uh score pad. It's pretty cool. It's uh it looks like a a circle, but it's kind of shaped like a chest protector. It's got a target in the middle, it's got handles here, here, and then on the back. And it's a power measure. It it's it's unbelievable. No wires, no nothing. You tap it, you can hit it, it displays power, it can show you speed, um, it can go you uh symmetry where you kick kick, they can tell you you gotta be within 85%. He has a really big track background because of his daughters. They ran track, so he believes in everything being measurable. Check this thing out, it's called a score pad. It's really cool. I TJ, I think you would actually like it.
SPEAKER_02:Who's selling it? Who's selling it?
SPEAKER_01:The cup, I don't know. I think the company's called Score Scorepad Productions, whatever.
SPEAKER_02:But can I can I ask a question? This is this is your guy, this is your boy. Yeah, why hasn't it been sent to the holy trio? That's what I'm wondering.
SPEAKER_01:To be honest with you, it's it's it was uh I think he's been developing for like seven years, and he's just getting it out right now. He brought it to my school the other day. I'll send you guys some videos. Pretty cool Gary Martin score pad. You guys gonna like it?
SPEAKER_03:But is it built like you it's like for kicking, I'm I'm assuming, right? So it's like a chest.
SPEAKER_01:Kicking. It looks it's imagine a big circle, a circle shield, circle shield, but it's it's thick, it's pretty thick, and then it's kind of curved. You know what I'm saying? It's not it's very rounded, and then it has you put forward things like this to hold it so you can hold any angles, and then it's got a shield. Like, so I was just holding in the back, kicking, and they were counterattacking. I was trying to find the you know practical application, but the science behind it is pretty cool. They have like a game, like a race car game. So two people could be kicking a target, two kids. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And the harder you kick and the faster you kick, your car goes faster. So there's a really cool traditional martial art uh aspect to it. He built a whole curriculum on this shield for his students so they can measure as they're getting better, as they're progressing.
SPEAKER_02:I like it. Yeah. Yeah, I had a long, I had a long talk with Sentry about this because they have that, you know, as you know, Sentry just purchased um 2020 armor, and I was trying to talk to them a little bit about um how they should use it to make it work.
SPEAKER_01:It reminded me a little bit of that. Like, for example, like every time you kick it, all you gotta do is just the holder just goes like touches it, and it just it resets for the next person to go. The difference between this and well, there's a lot of differences. The 2020 armor shit breaks. No offense. That's um, I got I got four of them, and none of them work. So this thing is pretty cool. But anyway, I digress.
SPEAKER_03:Let's get into our that's interesting though, like just the the scientific part of it. Like, I think that's kind of always always go back and forth. I think we talk about a lot about how how I think even our sport has gotten to the point of everything being measured super scientific. The strength of conditioning side has gone through the roof compared to I would say before, you know, it was more about fighting skills, more about, I mean, you know, if you were fast, strong, and explosive, but it wasn't so much on the strength of conditioning and measurement side. I think a lot of teams or a lot of our sport has kind of put a lot of weight in that stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Listen, I I mean, I wasn't talking to him about that because he was saying, you got to hit with your heel. I'm like, well, we actually hit with the flat foot because the sensors is over here. He's like, oh my gosh. And I was telling him, like, the Brazilian athletes, you know, they wear their heart monitors. They, the sport science people, they have all the graphs and they can see when you're in the red, when you have a high potential for injury. So they'll talk to the coach, hey, TJ's got to sit out and practice, or TJ's got to do a light practice because he's in the zone right now. Yeah, so you're right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think those are the days that I feel like I I don't know. I think you can see when someone's being sluggish and when they're not being sluggish, and as a coach, you kind of dictate and change the training a little bit. But it's hard to like picture me when I was kind of competing and everything, say someone, oh, you're in a danger zone of training. And I'm like, in my brain, I felt like sometimes we were all three days we're in a danger zone if that's the case, because it was a hard week, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I yeah, there's a balance to it. I mean, I think there's sometimes if you know I'm in the danger zone, maybe you don't practice hard, maybe you don't fight well. Maybe what if for some reason you're off in your in your build-up and you're in the danger zone during your competition? You're gonna know that, and you're gonna maybe give in to doubt, you know? So anyway, let's go.
SPEAKER_02:Um Well, TJ, TJ is gonna be TJ is gonna be leading us off today, and more importantly, he's gonna be um taking care of us throughout this podcast. And he'll be bringing up the topics, and then of course, I will be speaking too much about each, and then Coach Morano will be giving most of the great content. I'm gonna be slightly distracted during the blue period, is I'll call it TJ, but I'll do my best to stay here.
SPEAKER_03:You love my outfits. I'm gonna I'm just thought I'm gonna start dressing up for you every week to just see what comments should come up with at this point.
SPEAKER_02:Don't don't tease, don't tease me, big boy.
SPEAKER_03:Don't tease me when I come back next week. A three-piece suit. What do you think? Full blow three-piece suit, Steve Harvey said.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I got I got some nice suits. Hey, but y'all, you're talking about big boy. He watched that Charlie Sheen thing too much, and he got really hooked on the end of it. He got really hooked.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, no. Menu, baby. Flip the menu. That's my new thing. Flip the menu.
SPEAKER_03:I think last time we stopped or we stopped at um just talking about like uh different programs and like strengths and weaknesses, and not necessarily about the program and specifically, but more about um what are the signs or like things you think that go into having a successful program that has longevity and those things? Yo, I think we can hear a lot of your background noise.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, a lot. Many? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold on a second. Let me see what I can do about that.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if you turn on mute.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm gonna mute. Give me a second.
SPEAKER_03:But do you do you think there is something that um I guess if you had to pick out one thing that you look at different programs? I know you've been around for a long time and been able to work with a lot of different countries, a lot of different programs, and been in a lot of cool rooms and just watch training. We talk about that a lot, just watching the flow of training and everything. Do you think there's one specific thing that stands out about a dominant team? I saw something the other day about it. It was Korea, Iran, I think maybe Russia was on the list. Um a bunch of the the higher the top teams that what they consider the top teams. Do you think there's any consistencies between having that? Those those being at that level.
SPEAKER_01:Young, go young. I mean I yeah, it's a it's such a loaded question, and we can go so many different things. But if I had to do if I had to give you know something that uh that makes a team consistent and not just consistent for a short time, consistent for a long jet long time, longevity, I would say the leadership has to be very, very strong. I think the leader has to have uh a big personality and uh be very committed to their philosophical approach because the team will take the identity of the of the coach. I really believe that again. When I I love sports, when I love football, basketball. All great coaches have a big personality. Even if that big personality is Drive, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid, they're still big, big, big personalities. They may not be talkative personalities, but they're uh very big. And the team takes on the culture, the mindset of the philosophical approach of that coach. So I think that is really important. The leader has to be somebody um strong. And secondly, I think those leaders know better than anybody that the basics and fundamentals and and and and and simple things are not simple. They're very, very important. They're not flashy, they can be flashy, they can throw the bomb, they can throw the fancy kick, but they're their base, their defense, their offensive line, their their their movement, their guard, their distance control, these are things that go on overlooked for jumping off a pad, double kicking in the air, flipping and flopping, and it looks awesome. Maybe even scientific things, put a strap around me, do all this stuff. Resist, resist. I'm not saying that those aren't good, those are great, but the core fundamentals of basics strong leadership, basics. Now you can you can have some longevity. You have these highs and these lows, you have these little kind of um ebb and flows a little bit. So I I joke somebody was asking me about pink performance, you know, the other day. Actually, it was a kung fu stylist. I had a kung fu world champion contact me and we were talking about it, and he asked me about pink performance, and we were talking about it. And I said, you know, there's been so many hot coaches and hot programs and hot teams, and they come and they go. And for that little, you know, minute of fame, you know, people gravitate towards that coach or they gravitate towards that athlete. As soon as that athlete goes, that coach is irrelevant, you know, irrelevant. They're not they're not around anymore. And you see that a lot, a lot. There's some political things with that as well. But when it comes just to meat and potatoes of coaching and athlete development, you know, sometimes the uh the flash and the sauce looks really good right now, but maybe not for the long run.
SPEAKER_03:That's my that's thinking that's a good point. Like I think from the the teaching and developing side of it too, is we've kind of lost a little bit of that because I always think it's funny. I think about some kids these days are starting their first competition on electronics. Think about that. Their first technical competitions on electronics. So what they're being taught and what they're being shown, I think it's to is it is it to prepare them for the electronic? And like you said, uh, I think when we do it that way, the longevity shrinks. Like we go way, way, way short. You see some kids that are taller, longer, can do some weird things with their body. And as they progress to the older stages, whether it be juniors or seniors, you you see the fizzle, you see the change because now it requires more of the stuff you're talking about, like basics and uh the development and real understanding.
SPEAKER_01:You know, TJ, I do a lot of presentations, a lot of coaching, a lot of seminars and camps and things like that. And one of the things I say for years, for decades, not if when they change the rules, not if when they changed the system. It's been that's one thing that if I had to say hate, and I don't like to use the word hate, if there's one thing I hate is the inconsistencies and the changing over and over of our sport. Young, we talk about it all the time. That's why we're here where we're at right now, because they keep changing. They don't fix, they change. And so um you're right. If if you're built to fight this style right now, when they change it, and you can't kick with your back leg, you can't spin, you can't guard, you can't move, you're obsolete. And we've seen a lot of people like that, you know? So not if when they change the rules. So if you're not well rounded, you won't be able to adapt. And maybe you don't care. Maybe that all you want to do it is for this short period, get on you, mate. But if you want to have longevity, you uh you have a lot of this basic groundwork stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so the success of the success of any system um comes from its leadership and the culture well designs and develops. So with historical success in outs, for example, Spain or Mexico, that they made the earlier colonial. It means they developed a culture that was prevalent throughout everything they did. And so that it was known by the people that tried to do it, it was known by the people that practiced it. And as they did it, they then became symbols of excellence. So if you wanted to do that and you became you dressed like that. You know, I remember we went out and tried to find those warm-ups, those gold warmups. We tried to act like that, we tried to run like that. And I still watch guys now, I was watching my coach still doing the warmups that he was taught from 20 years ago. Now, the warm-ups are, in my opinion, not great, but it's a culture, right? When you build a culture, you build a culture, and that culture was based on success. So I think there is something to be said for building a culture. So when you eliminate aspects of the culture, which in some times are um physical, sometimes they're intellectual, sometimes they're philosophical, sometimes they're unspoken, then you dilute the sport. And when those people are looking for leadership or guidance or mentorship, they have nothing to look at and look for. And that's one of the downfalls of it.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, I'll add this real fast, TJ. I make no mistakes about it. Like, listen, a great coach without great athletes is going to be very hard to excel. You might be able to bring them up a little bit, but you probably need both, right? You need a good athlete with a good coach, and then you can have some great things because I see it all the time in sports, or vice versa. Sometimes you see a great athlete and a bad coach, and they can make them look better or they can go down. There's the argument with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, right? When Tom Brady and Bill Belichick were together, they won Super Bowls. When Tom Brady left, everyone had considered Bill Belichick the cream of the crop. He hasn't fared so well without Tom Brady.
SPEAKER_03:So it's uh I think that's the dynamic of two leaders because I, you know, you look at Tom Brady and go, he's the leader. He he kind of you know led the team and was that's like a second-tier leader or like the the enforcer of rules, uh you know, enforcer of the culture, I would say. Um yeah, you know, I think that's all you know, we've we talk about that a lot about having alphas in the training room, and and and those people are really important. I we I remember when I first came to Miami to train there, and I remember Tony Graff was for me the alpha in the room, and you knew that, and you kind of I think it's totally normal. You kind of follow suit, you kind of, you know, you watch what's right, you watch what's wrong. Obviously, he's getting his cues from the coach, you, but like he was the enforcer in the in the situation and like you knew what was right and wrong. I guess the next question, like speaking about that, is what is I guess we talked about the program as a whole, but as far as like the makeup of the room, do you think there is there there needs to be different levels and different tiers and different I guess levels of athlete in the room to to even sustain what we're talking about longevity? So we're building from the bottom all the way through.
SPEAKER_01:Young, you want to go on you wanna take that one? What do you think?
SPEAKER_02:So, so you know, I keep going back to my experience on the in the Olympic Committee and when I was developing the programs, not for our sport, but for other sports. I was looking at their high performance plans. They realized early on that you have to create a pipeline, and that pipeline has to be not just in the country, around the country, you're going to develop a pipeline of developing athletes, and you're going to build coaching and opportunities to coaching and opportunities to competition that sustains that pipeline. Well, then you also have to take it and then integrate it into your national team program. So, you know, I'm sitting here today at my son's soccer thing, and it's the U18s, which is the last group before the pro game, right? They're taking kids from this group and they're moving them up into the second team, which is the professional team, right onto the first team. Well, on this team, even though they're U18s, they have kids who are not U18. They bring them up from the lesser group, the younger group, and they do that throughout. So they start at probably 12 to 13, and those kids play up if they're capable, willing, andor able. And by doing that, the kids see what excellence looks like. Like yesterday we were here and the second team was practicing, which was their professional team. And on the way out, every guy on that second team walked through the guys as they're walking in for their practice, gave them a high five, said hi to the ones they knew, introduced himself to the ones, because that's the culture they're building. They train, they train in proximity. If they're good, they move up in proximity. If they're not, they move down in proximity. But they're still in the environment that's competitive. So I absolutely believe that you have to have a multi-tiered approach, multi-tiered approach to the athletes that are in the room. And then they have to be able to be to move up. You've got to understand the differences between flowers and weeds. But that's really the key to sustain competitive excellence.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, TJ, for me, if I could jump in, like I um listen, when I built my first thing in Miami, I was like, put as many people in the room as possible. If you can keep up, you're welcome. If you can't keep up, get out. And I didn't care if you're a greenbelt, a 12-year-old, a 15-year-old, a 25-year-old. Everybody was treated the same across the board. And of course, over time, everybody just there's a natural positioning of people because some people are gonna be bigger and better, and some people are gonna be trying to learn and catch them. So there's gonna, there's always gonna be a natural kind of leadership flow when it comes to ability. Um, but I believe when you build a room, you don't just build a room with a bunch of champions. You need some a tough guy, you need some energy guys, you need some developing guys. I mean, it it just I think there's a role for everybody. Um, and for me, I've always I I believe that. You know, I think you put, you know, but you know, the eight best guys in the room, are are you guys gonna prove? Absolutely. But you might need some bodies too. You might need some hungry scrapper guy that's willing to be rougher than the top guy just because he's still trying to make his his mark. You might need some green guy that doesn't know anything that says, you know what, I'm willing to try anything. And and there's something that adds you might need that raw, raw guy. I mean, you remember TJ, we had George Badaona. George Badaona was uh he trained with us for a year and a half and he made the national team. A year and a half and he made the national team, and he was Tony Graff 2.0, like just as big, actually bigger, stronger, about 10 times meaner. This kid doesn't need he's like he doesn't need any kind of martial arts to survive in any part of the world. This dude is the real deal when it comes to fighting. That dude came in two two years and he was already a very important person in the room. He knew how to bow, he knew how to get out of the way of the of the seniors, but when it came to energy and attitude and keeping the culture, he was very important. I'm just talking about when he first came there. So I think you need a diverse room. I think you need a diverse room of of different people, as long as they all have the same mindset and they're not pulling anybody down. So, like what you're talking about, young, is very very structured, you know. So you probably wouldn't put uh uh an MLS player with an under-13 player because there's certain things that this person can't do, doesn't understand, and you're slowing the pack down. So as long as in martial arts, as long as people can get through the trainings and understand the trainings and not mess up my flow as a coach, like, hey, we gotta stand like no, no, no, no, no. That that then they're not ready for that rule yet. My opinion.
SPEAKER_03:I I agree. I agree. I think I think that's it's just interesting to me because I think when you're building, I think this thing you have a privilege of building a room at the national team level. And I'm just I wonder if like a lot of other countries or people that set up these, you know, rooms and the people they do take for long trips take this stuff into consideration. I I'm on your side when it comes to just because you put I hear it all the time. I need to train with better people, I need to train with this many people. And it's like it's the cliche thing to say. It's like scapegoaters cliche things. It's so it's like to me, it's almost it's it's mockery of what you are are doing at home and the things that you're getting at home. Because just because you're in the best, just because you're in a room with a lot of good athletes doesn't make it a great team. I mean, you you know high-level athletes, you know the winners in the room, the the the killers in the room. Sometimes you can't put too many of them in one place because you get the the negative effect of that. You get the the the not, like you said, not working so hard because they are preparing for things, or you get the the weird atmosphere of having those people in close proximity to each other constantly, you know? Um but and think about this.
SPEAKER_01:You can even go like those people are so selfish that they can't give themselves for you. Where you go to your gym and somebody's like, I'm like, hey, go with so and so. They're they're ready and willing to give up their body and give up their time for his or her advancement. When you get too many top dogs, they're like, I'm tired, I'm waiting for my drill. I'm not gonna go over there and be a body for you. So there's it it's that's a really good point, cliche. That's why I have so much respect for, for example, current event Bud Crawford, Teres Crawford, stays in Omaha with his trainers, that his first trainer, his people. He's like, I don't need to go to New York, I don't need to go to Chicago, I don't need to go to Detroit, I do it right here. So Alvarez, same thing. He had his same that guy's got more money than anybody. He could have got the hottest, the biggest, the best coach in the world, but he's been with his same coaching staff for his whole life. And so I think it is cliche that I gotta be with a bunch of other people, I gotta, I gotta have all these people that are at the same level as me. I'm not saying it's not good, but it's not it's the 100% truth.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think a responsible coach always puts you in the situation you need to be put in for those moments to go, let's go get in front of some bigger people, let's go get in front of some better people, let's invite some bigger, better people in. But I think when I think we're talking about the theme is longevity. I think to have someone progress long, you got to know where they started. I think that's the biggest thing for me when it comes to the changeover of the national team system now and everything. There was a when I was competing, there was a huge factor in that. You know what I mean? The the coaches did kind of interlock. I mean, you know what, you knew where I came from. You were at some of my black belt tests at time. Nothing to do with us training together or working together. But so you, you know, it's I think that's a a big thing that we miss. We talk about winning for a long time, you know. Um, just having that consistently, having those building points, and knowing knowing that the guy behind you saw where you started, and you're not just a shell to them, and you're trying to, they're trying to figure you out or give you something that maybe doesn't fit your scheme.
SPEAKER_01:I remember young, you you and Kevin Padilla were like perfect segue into this because you guys trained by yourselves. You guys had a couple green belts or blue belts that you kicked around or that used as bodies. You went to see Fu Vizio to get some detailed stuff, and then you would show up and you make the national team, and then you would integrate with us, you know, from time to time. So you didn't have 10 Herb Perez's and 10 Kevin Padillaz in your room. You know, I'm talking when you guys were coming up. I mean, I know you built a room later on in life, you know, with Peter and Sean Burke and these guys, but for years you didn't have that.
SPEAKER_02:No, because the reality was that I, in my opinion, you need one good partner. If you have one decent partner, the rest works itself out. And so what happened with us was C for Physio, I would tell him these stories. I said, Nobody in my gym wants to train with me. And he's like, Okay, line up your students. I'm like, what? He goes, line up your students. He says, line up green belts, white belts. He says, and fight them until they quit and then bring the next one in. And that was his solution. So I would literally, unfortunately, if you were my student back then, I'd line up my white belts to the black belts, and I'd fight until um the guy was couldn't fight anymore or got, you know, dropped with a body kick because I wouldn't kick the white belts in the head. Um, and then I'd move on to the next one. And then, you know, they kind of figured out if they acted like they were hurt, they could get out, so I'd keep them up a little while longer. But that was my mentality. I needed people to hold targets, and I needed people to hold shields, and then I did people to do partner drills with. And none of those people have to be that great. They just have to be willing and able. Uh, the higher level stuff I did with Kevin, but Kevin was lighter than me by you know 40 pounds. And when he was going to ban, I weighed 60 pounds. So I had to make do with that. Um, would you consider higher level stuff? Higher level stuff is when you're fighting. Like, you can drill any, any, anybody can hold a target. Anybody can hold a shield. Anyone can do a body drill. Anybody can do a strategy drill. When you're doing what I what I call strategic offensive drills and strategic defensive drills, where you need the partner to be at least fast enough to execute and understanding it, that's important. When you're doing variable drills, and those are offensive and strategic drills where the guys have has to make options based on your attack or your defense, then you need somebody at your level. Um, but when it comes to just working on stuff, and to be honest, at that point there was something to be said for. Because of the format, working with people who weren't that good, because half the fights at a national championship were of guys with guys who shouldn't be there. Half the fights at a world championship were the same. Back then, you know, you had a hundred plus countries showing up, and they got the right to come because they showed up at their national championship with two other guys. So you, if you fought a country like that, you had to know how to fight that guy because he didn't know taekwondo. And so if you couldn't fight guys who sucked at taekwondo, then you know you would lose those matches. And I saw my friends lose those matches all the time to guys who weren't good. Let me ask you something, TJ.
SPEAKER_01:If you had to, if you had to choose, like because I think you've been around maybe both. Like, for example, in your heyday when with you, we had a bunch of young kids. I used to young, I used to joke all the time because TJ would go and win something, he'd come home, and like all these teenagers would just line up, like they just line up in front of him. They always wanted to fight him. I was like, yo, man, TJ, you'd have smacked a couple of these kids out. So like, but it was good because they wanted to test themselves, to be honest with you. But my question was, we had some things like that where there was just a bunch, and then for example, I mean, when when Paige was towards her head, you know, I had this boy would fight her, and I would say, there's nobody longer than him. And then this girl was he, there's nobody heavier than this. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, we almost professionalized it where we pieced together a team versus a room of go get anybody. Like, if you had your it's a hard question to answer, but if you had your choice, the crazy room or a specific team.
SPEAKER_03:I think there's ties for both, and I think that's the one thing you you probably did well. We had specialized trainings, you know. I mean, we had some where the the room was smaller on purpose to kind of focus on the things we need to do where you could put the taller guy in front of in front of Paige and make him do some weird, crazy things, and then you could tell someone, hey, be stronger and tougher than her. I think I think all those things are important. Um I had a training partner, me and uh so most of the time I was there, I spent training with uh a lot of time with James Howe. And when it came to what you're talking about, like holding targets and everything, we had a very good vibe with our the tempo, the tempo of the training, like you know, what you know, he worked hard, I worked hard, he knew where to put the targets, he knew how to push me, knew how to motivate me, and he was a strong guy in general. So, and he never got tired. So it was good for me because no matter what we did, James was never tired. You know what I mean? Everybody else could be tired, James had really good cardio, so it worked out. Um, and he was lighter than me. Like that was my point I was trying to make. He was uh 58 and I was fighting 68, so there was a difference in weight. But I think when it comes to training partners, that's that type of important, but also having that room of different levels, I think it keeps you on your toes because if we go back to that culture building thing, regardless of whether we know it or not, when you're at that level where you reach certain heights, you become a role model for those people in the room, you know, and it kind of keeps you on your toes. You know, you can't walk into the room and be lazy because then everybody's gonna be lazy. You can't walk into the room and play tired because everyone's gonna play tired. So I think it offers a unique situation for even the alpha in the room to have those people, I wouldn't even per se chasing them, but I would say developing underneath them. And I think that's the thing that we when we talk about culture that we've kind of lost a little bit. I remember when I started Taekwondo, we had a lot of different belt levels in the room and different ages, and you you got someone to look at. You know, even when I started making the junior national teams, we had opportunities to train at the same time, uh, let's say within the same week as the uh the Olympic Training Center team or the senior national team. So we got to interact with those guys and say, okay, I'm a junior, there's a senior 58, there's a senior 68, and now I kind of know what it looks like and feels like. And then for me, it's cool because you get to see their strengths and weaknesses in training, and all of a sudden these people you thought were maybe superheroes become a little bit not so scary anymore, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I like it, I like it. It's uh you know, it's funny because when you oh, sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, no, you're fine, go ahead. I I was gonna ask about that. Go ahead, coach. No, go ahead. I'm sorry, it's uh I was gonna I was gonna just ask about do you think the with that do you think that's a when we talk about long-term or short term, is is that a big factor in it? Like you say, I know you mentioned the culture and everything to have it more long term. Do you think that is we talk about the two-year cycle now, the the turnover and how fast maybe people are cycling through athlete, is that necessarily a strategy for success, or is it just it benefits the bigger countries?
SPEAKER_01:So again, I'm gonna go back to a personality, a philosophical approach. I mean, every I can't say every what who's right or who's wrong. Something for me, I'm not gonna waver for it. I believe in I believe in hard work, I believe in basics, I believe in making sure that you can train and commit a certain way. And if you're gonna be good, you're gonna be good for the long term. I'm not looking for the the flash in the pan. I'm not looking for the mom or dad that wants their kid to be the superstar right now and gone. Some people do that, and some people like that, but I don't think that sustains success. And you could have the next person come up and do it, come up and do it, come up and do it. But what does that say about your program? What does it say that you're you could do this for a year or two years and then they're gone? I heard one person say, Oh, all my people go away to college. I'm like, you know, I've got doctors and lawyers and accountants and judges that went through my program with you. I'm like, that's just such a cop out. That's just such a cop out. Because in most cities in the world, there's some form of you know higher education that you can go to, whether it's a uh community college. I had people go to University of Miami, university, FIU, like literally get their MBAs while they're while they're practicing Taekwondo, while they're on the national team. So I think that for me, I'm not gonna waver. I believe in these certain things, and that's my long-term thing. And again, I'll see people come and go, and I'll pat you on the back. I'll be like, awesome, congratulations, you're the best. We'll see where you are in five years or three years, or to end uh I moved on, uh, my team got smaller. Oh, this, this, and this. I I mean, dude, if I had a nickel for every time someone told me that I'd be rich, I'd be Grandmaster Perez, man, I'd be like living the life in California, you know. But for real. I mean, I'm being facetious here, but I I just believe in taking step by step, and you know, you're gonna have your uh unique kid every once in a while, you know, that that shines bright for a short period of time, but consistency. I mean, that's it's a it's a little bit of a brag, you know, flex, as some people say, but that's the reason why I've been able to do this for 20 20 plus years, both here and abroad, you know, with you know, with other programs.
SPEAKER_03:So I think I think it's the like you said, I think it's the belief system because like I I know people, I know exactly who you're talking about that went to school and and trained and made the national team and had deep runs at world championships and at the Olympic trials and and and we're doing other things. I think it's the belief system. I think that's that's gotta be in place. Uh you you gotta have the people in your room believe that they can actually go win, you know, and actually compete with us. I think the scene has changed a little bit and it's it's frustrating to me. So I tend to take every person that walks into the room seriously. If you say you want to come train, they were like you just said, we're gonna train. There's really no like, ah, I'm doing this casually, or ah, hey coach, I just want to do twice a week. Then you're just wasting your time. You're just wasting your time, you're wasting wasting your energy, and it's not something that I I see you you staying around for. You know what I mean? But I I didn't I didn't feel that too much when we when I was in Miami training. I don't care who it was from the like you said, from the little kids all the way up to the the big dogs, they felt like everyone had the same goal, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, they're all in. They're all in. Right, last year.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, I just keep turning off the audio, which is making you guys happy. But the um the reality is the culture, you can decide what you want your culture to be, and then you can enforce your culture. But you're much more generous. I'm generous in my school and the people I take, but I'm actually less generous these days. I'm more selective about who I take and what game work is I expect from them. And I don't, quite frankly, I don't even learn their names until they've been there for a bit and a minute. Um, and that's because the level of of athleticism and determination and discipline that's needed can only be demonstrated through action after just showing up. So showing up's a start, right? It's it's what you do once you're in the room. Um, and I think that that's you know, one of the things that Coach Moretto and I, you know, can are consistent on. We we have that ability to, and you two, to create an environment that we want and how we see that environment working. And and if you create that environment, then it will work. And this, you know, I'm and I laugh because as I'm sitting here, I'm watching, you know, 30 young men that are in that environment and the ones that aren't working aren't in the room. They're sitting on the side of home and they create the environment. It's very positive and it's all that. I think you have to have the people that are aspiring to that environment, but you got to know that it's got the right formula. And what I mean by that is the coach lays out what's required, whether it's spoken or unspoken. If you're making a cake, you need flour and eggs. If they don't have flour and they don't have eggs, it doesn't matter how much you think about them and what you want from them, but they need flour and eggs. Um, you can't put the kids in the room without the ingredients and then hope they're gonna rise to the occasion because it doesn't occur. And that's where a good coach's eye comes in. And I and the last thing I'll say on it is I just don't, I don't have conversations about the status quo because I don't really care. I think that the current group of athletes in the room are good. I don't think they're good enough. I think that they are mediocre at best, and you still have the outliers that anybody points to and says, Yeah, but what about this one? That's been the history of time. But the better question is how many of these kids really, as you didn't have to worry about them, how many of these kids really could stand up? And I'm not sure how many of them could. They're dancers and prancers and cave poopers. So they wouldn't even be in my room as I look at half of the guys that I see. Anybody that gets kicked in the face and it swipes by their face and they sit on the floor and cry, you know, I wouldn't have them in the balloon. But that's just my that's my mentality.
SPEAKER_03:I think the I'll say this, and I'll maybe a little opposite. And I totally understand where you're coming from. I think the the talent is there. I think the willingness to take it.
SPEAKER_02:Let me put a finer point on it. No, let me let me just put a finer point on it. You can't talk about the current group of athletes because people were in the room, let in the room that should have never been in the book. You can't talk about the current crop of athletes. You can talk about 10% of them, 20% of them, whatever percent you want to come up with, but you can't talk about them in mass because they wouldn't have survived a room where Taekwondo is being done, full contact taekwondo. That's all I'm talking about. And the scoring system has diluted the pool to such a degree that it's not fair to talk about the current group of athletes because they're not the current group of athletes, they're not the group of athletes you would have if you had the sport being done at a full contact level. That's all I'm saying. What do you think, coach?
SPEAKER_01:No, uh Glaive, do you go start with your thing?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I was oh I was gonna say, no, I was I was gonna say, um, I think the talent, I think the I think we did the opposite. I think the talent is there in most cases, it's just the the ability to or the willingness to develop and be a part of the ones that aren't winning currently. That's that's always my biggest issue. Like how how much are we willing to really invest in getting those second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, tenth tier people? And and like you said, at the at what point are we realizing that maybe they're not ready for the national team though? And maybe maybe they're better off at home for a while and better off developing a little bit further before you interject and per personally change what they're doing or change the. I mean, up mostly like most of these kids in most of these situations have never lived away from home, they've never done their own laundry. They they they barely pay for their own gas, and all of a sudden you you change the system in which and I know I know we can make reasons that like yes, yada yada yada yes.
SPEAKER_02:I agree, I agree, boom, boom, boom, boom, I agree, but it's the it's it's where we stand.
SPEAKER_03:I think all those things have to be taken into consideration when making the decision on who goes into the room and dude.
SPEAKER_02:I was cooking, I was I was cooking breakfast for my sister at five and six years old, walking her to school in the snow, coming home, cooking lunch for her, and watching her till my mother came home after working in a in a uh spray paint factory for plastic or an ornaments. Boo boo. I could care less about these little sissified, you know, guys that can't be you're not wrong.
SPEAKER_01:So let me go back to TJ. I think that we are in a culture of appeasement, right? Everyone appeases their their students, we appease our athletes, the the results are appeased to hey, you fought wasn't the the performance I wanted, but I still learned. That's such a it's correct, but it's such a cliche and people use it as an excuse. Hey, I didn't get the gold, but I got the bronze, and I'm super happy and proud of myself. Okay, okay, okay, okay. It's in this this era of appeasement. And um I think that that has created a short-term mentality. And you kind of were onto something where you said, you know, some people aren't ready for the national team, or aren't ready to to relocate, or ready to be put in the big room. Just because their ability looks like it, just because their results happen to look like it, some people are better off where they came from for their time being. Maybe forever. You know, maybe that's not a good fit, but sometimes we're too quick to throw them up. And what that has created was oh my gosh, you can't do it. They quit and they go away. So it's that short-term mentality. We're gonna ride with this superstar or this crazy idea, uh this crazy um athletic, unique person, and we're not taking care of what you said. I'm gonna use that middle group. These they're not bad, they're just not ready to shine up there, but they need another year, another two years, another, they need something else. You can't just throw them in the room because they're gonna get alpha or big dog and they're gonna have some defeats, they're gonna get frustrated, their their production's gonna fall off, they're gonna quit or get kicked out, and we say they didn't have it. It's not that they didn't have it, it was a short-term and listen performance versus results. I get it. Some people in certain situations, it's all about their results. Okay, I get it. But if you're trying to build a program, you're trying to build a federation. Listen, right now I have nobody on the senior national team. Well, actually, that's not sure how I want. But but I have a bunch of kids that if they're gonna be good, they'll be good in the long run. And I'm sticking to, I can put my ego aside and just say, you know what? I'll I'll take a little back step right now. There might be some more high-profile coaches. I'll take a little back step. It doesn't change the quality of what we're doing, and I think that's what people do. Their philosophical approach is wrong, they put people in bad situations, and those people fail more times.
SPEAKER_02:We we weed weeds weeds and flowers, and there's a history of coaches in the U.S. that were not run by um good mentors on top of them or not part of the system that abused the flowers, and they used them for fodder for their brothers and sisters, so that their brothers and sisters could become national team members, and then those kids got mentally abused, physically abused, and left the program.
SPEAKER_01:You know, you know, nobody does that now, but nobody does that now, but with the who they're gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02:You don't know if anybody you don't know you don't you don't know if anybody does that.
SPEAKER_01:What I'm talking about, like it there's still that going on, but it's shifted. It's shifted into putting people in positions to lead, but they're not capable of leading just based on their experience, just based on their their skill set. You know, they seem because they're a little bit hot, and they seem to be able to get the biggest thing.
SPEAKER_02:When you get on when you when you get on a plane, when you get on a plane, what you want to see in the plane is a guy or a woman with white hair that's carrying the bag that's been worn, it's dirty, it's got the edges, because you want the guy flying your plane to have the capacity and the knowledge and the experience. When you watch top-level soccer, every top-level soccer coach here is older for a reason. And and that's why when you what you're saying now is true. You can develop coaches, but you got to develop coaches the same way you develop athletes. You put them, you get them to carry the bags, they're bad boys in the beginning. And in the beginning, that's how they get their experience. They watch the senior coach. You know, my son's coaches, they all came from this one coach who's apparently a great coach, and he created a coach. And now those coaches are the head of San Jose State, headers of um Cornell, head of Stanford University. Three of the best programs in the country. And they came from this one coach who coached them when they were players and coaches in a small university. Excellence breeds excellence, other than out there outliers. Excellence breeds excellence.
SPEAKER_01:You do why we can move on to this building blocks.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think we've Tancher, why are you here? Why am I why are you here? Yeah, I'm here because I had How did you get here?
SPEAKER_02:How did you get here by yourself?
SPEAKER_03:Nah, definitely not zero percent chance. I had a lot of guidance and a lot of support from the beginning. I had a lot of know-how around me. I had a lot of people saying yes and saying no, and I was willing to go athlete to that's it, to allow myself to be guided and pushed through. I think just real quick before we change to like the um the what we were just talking about. I think, especially in this generation, now we've disguised that development that you're talking about behind the word funding. I'm gonna throw some money at you, I'm gonna send you to five, six tournaments, and look, you're the best because I'm paying you to go here. But like you said last episode or the episode before, all situations and all competition aren't good competitions. They're there sometimes some are misstimed, some are misplaced, some are just not where you should be. Some spend some more time developing, spend some more time training in a room with different people. But we everybody, I'm gonna say it, everybody runs towards funding. If you tell someone they're gonna pay for you to go here and do this and do that, it's like I know, but that's the is that not the ultimate goal of feel like the especially in the country?
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna tell you, I'll tell you right now, there's some people that has run towards funding. Mark my words, they're gonna regret it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a difficult situation. I guess we so wait, we we were funded for everything, right? So I got injured in the end of 88, and then I didn't go to the World Cup, and I was funded. I was asked to go, and I didn't go to the World Cup. Do you know why I didn't go to the World Cup? Because I knew I wouldn't win. I was coming off an injury, I could have gone, would have loved a plane ticket, but I went to tournaments to win tournaments. I didn't go to tournaments to get travel and get and get uh knickknacks. So that's a mentality difference, right? And so yeah, people will always run towards money and warm-ups, right? Because they always get warm-ups and they get money. But the reality is that when this mentality, you don't go to events that you don't think you can win. And in 80, whenever it was, Sarie, I don't remember where it was, like Yugoslavia somewhere. And I didn't go because I was like, I'm injured and I and I'm not gonna, I was in coming off an injury, I wasn't injured anymore, but I wasn't gonna win.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I uh the the question was um, I guess you know, you'll like this question, Grandmaster. This is kind of like you've always implored us to answer this question maybe once every week. Um, how do if you started from scratch today and you had to, I guess, like he was saying, the building blocks, or what would you implement it other than firing everybody else and and you know, hiring you or letting you do the job that you know how to do other than that, other than that, other than getting rid of all that, but where would you start as part of the athletes, the team makeup, the situation, all that stuff?
SPEAKER_02:So the first thing I'd do is I'd I'd identify a group of high-tier coaches with proven success. And then I'd I'd designate and I'd have them designate lower tier coaches with a future of potential success. That group of athletes and coaches would go around the country on a uh on a whirlwind tour to hold events, training sessions, and small competitions to identify the future athletes. And this is what I did when I went when I did hold the keys to the castle. Coach was that beautiful flower. Coach Moreno and I, along with another coach and a great executive director, went around the country and did these events, and then we held them in Colorado Springs, of which one you attended. We then identified a core group of about 30 to 35 athletes, and we started with 80. Out of that group of 80, we identified a core group of about 30 to 35 athletes that we thought would make future national teams. And I'm gonna tell you that out of that group in the 80 and the 30 and the 35, that was the future of USA Taekwondo for 20 years. So that's the starting place. And that's any good program starts with a philosophy, and if they don't have one, they develop it. If they have a coaching philosophy that somebody else has developed, which we did at that point, we went out and implemented it and then we identified athletes. Because all the theory in the world doesn't matter if you don't have athletes. So that's where I would start.
SPEAKER_01:That's all pretty good. I I think I would actually expand on that in a sense of identify somebody, but not just prove the results, because sometimes, again, I think they can be skewed. I think you have to understand um the situation that you're coming to. Can they not only can they produce results, can they can they run a room? Can they inspire a room? Can they build for the future? Because I'm not looking for just the moment. You know, when I look at the great Turkish teams, they had a one figure. The great Spanish team, they had one figure, the great French, one figure. And so and the same thing would be football, basketball, baseball. There's a reason why Phil Jackson wins everywhere he goes, but I think that finding the right leadership and letting that leadership person find his team. I think that's really, really um important. Um because that team, I think you mentioned something about this in one of our notes, TJ, mentorship. This is how we if you're gonna create your athletes create, I'm sorry, coaches create athletes. Coaches create problems. They don't it's not the other way around. It's and that comes from the top down. So if you're a great coach, you have to mentor me so that I can become good and I can mentor the next. And that's how we have some longevity. So for me, it listen, I say coaching camps and competitions. I say coaching for the a reason. And even if you're a talented athletic person, if you don't learn the the intricate intricacies of of training and competing, you can't be good. So I think finding that first leader is important. Unfortunately, I hate to go here now, but I would say if I'm building a program, a national program, funding is also a huge, huge issue. It is a huge issue to give these people opportunities to train, travel, and compete.
SPEAKER_03:And again, I'll say, and I probably have said it since the very first episode we did, I think the funding has to be across the board. I I don't care about science. In this case, I I know you can go numbers, you can go science, you can go all that stuff, but there's no way you can tell me not mentoring, not funding, not developing the the juniors and the cadet to get to that point. It has to be important. Like I can't wrap my mind around saying that we're gonna wait till they're 18, 19, 20 years old, have some level of success, and then we're gonna pull them and put them somewhere totally different. And we haven't invested in any of that in the buildup is always strange to me. I I just I don't think other countries do it like that. I I really don't. When I when I see, and again, I know we're in a different place. When I see Turkey with 300 plus people in a division, when I know you know Korea does it in uh elementary school, middle school, high school, like you can't tell me if a country like that obviously they have the infrastructure to do it because it's built into their school, but you can't tell me that developing them at the bottom isn't important. You you you just you can't sell me that idea. So for me, it would be investing in all the bottom tier people from I know we have to deal with uh you know cadets and juniors, but it would literally be getting that program thriving to the point where we have so much potential. And then, like you said, you identify your 30, 40, 50 kids, and there is funding for those guys to travel and get used to the environments and be at the tournaments and be in front of the lights because when they turn 18 shouldn't be when they start to adjust to that.
SPEAKER_01:Kazan, Tajikistan, Russia are all doing well right now. In our era young, they weren't even around. And the martial arts was there, but they didn't know what the heck they were doing when it comes to Olympic Taekwondo, and they invested in their young people, and now all of a sudden you're starting to see these Kazakhstan guy that's 18, 19. You're like, we're it's because they started working with them and investing in him or her when they were cadets, and not saying you gotta win, not not trying to make you a cadet world champion, just you know, step by step by step by step. And so you're right. I mean, everybody looks at the Olympics and everybody looks at the the best of the best. But if you're developing a program, it's the leadership, it's the mentorship, it's the building of your base coaches, and then investing in the bottom so that you can produce results. And guess what? Now you have a culture, now you don't just have an identity of one person, an individual superstar. I mean we've had the biggest superstar in the world in our country, right? The most successful winner as it comes to Olympics and world champions. And it it wasn't our he wasn't our our cultural, it was him as a unique individual, and I have the utmost respect for his performances, but it didn't do anything for our culture, it didn't do anything because the leadership didn't let that happen. I mean, there's some other there's some other things into that one too, but maybe that's not the perfect example, but you get what I'm talking about. We have to build a culture through our youth, through our good coaches, and a strong leader.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, I think you said we've always had bright lights in the country. You know what I mean? We've all we've always had people that went out and got the job done under the tough situations and all those things like that. But I guess my my goal would be that I want to I want to show up one day and be dominant. I want, I want, I want to feel like a culture. I want to feel like you have a program. You know what I mean? We have a and they they do it, and again, I will I'll switch for like two seconds. I won't go too deep, but they do it to themselves. It's the U.S. Academy team, it's the the home of the national team. Like you're already labeling and changing things that make no sense. Like either you're your own entity and you're doing your own thing, or you're supporting the country and being the national team program, and I in which I don't think those two things are connected from where I sit and look at it from the outside at all.
SPEAKER_01:So I I can listen again. I don't claim to I I didn't revolutionize Brazil. I helped with organize and structure and professionalize them, but what I do see is those guys, like you you saw TJ, when we're in Braz we're in Peru and we're in the warming up and training, the national team is there, and there's like seven, eight, they're all intertwined. They step together, they work together, they hold targets together, they help each other, they try to build a culture. And if you look at Brazil, I'm gonna say on the men's side, from top to bottom, they are solid. I'm not saying they're all world champions, that's that's that's almost impossible nowadays, but every one of them are after 54, 58, 63, 68, 74, 80, 87, plus they're all of good quality. Literally, you can take them anywhere you want, literally, anywhere in the world. And that's been by creating a culture. That one I can say that I think they had a culture, I think I organized it and professionalized it. I mean, I'm not gonna take credit for the Brazilian culture, but I definitely know that I have encouraged this interaction. I've encouraged someone that's I go, this person has a lot of ability. Um, not on our national team right now. Let's get them to a couple tournaments. No strings attached. We're not coaching them, we're not traveling with them, but we're giving this person and their coach an ability to go out there and get some things, and they're gonna flourish or they're not, but we're giving them that opportunity. We're building a culture. So, guess what? When that person is successful, God willing, they come back and they go, Thank you. You helped me get here, we've built a culture. So not perfect. I mean, I'm sorry to go off on a tangent on that because I I I really like this program building because it's a difficult thing, but for me, I wasn't even talking more on a local level culture building. Local level, I mean I I didn't even want to talk about the financial support of the federation, but you brought it up. I agree with you, TJ. You must you must invest in the cadets and juniors. And again, not invest in like we need the best ones. Yes, not the best, we need the results, but creating them, keeping them. How about that? Just keeping them because we have some good cadets going young. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, all that all of what you said is correct, right? So it starts with, you know, go back to what we did back in the day, which was identification. So, you know, America is a big country. A lot of people here, a lot of people do a lot of different sports. Um, and if you don't identify them and you don't provide them with opportunities and you don't funding's a given now, then you're going to short shrip yourself. There is no reason why. It's embarrassing, and it would be embarrassing for me if I were part of the current administration. I was fortunate enough to be part of the Olympic Committee and part of the board of directors of USA Taekwondo when we were winning. And we could go to every tournament and expect to win and win a lot of medals. I would be embarrassed, embarrassed to be part of this administration where you hope and pray to baby Jesus that one of your men, if when he's done TikToking, can get on the scoreboard. So, I mean, we have better random results with women because I don't think they pay that much attention to the women. And They do what they're going to do. And so in America, in the country of this many people, which is basically, you know, 50 small European countries wrapped into one. Most of the countries you're talking about don't have near the population nor resources we have. We should be embarrassed when we can't perform in taekwondo. In soccer, you know, because I'm here to soccer them. I asked that question of a toe. He said, be patient. We're young in soccer. And we're developing the systems, and they have like, here's the difference. You have one academy for USA Taekwondo, right? Soccer has 35 professional academies that are fully funded by professional teams where kids don't go to school, regular school, they go to online school or an academy school and they play soccer at starting at age 12. We don't have that in taekwondo. Yeah, because we don't have soccer? Yeah. Soccer's young. Soccer's young still. So that and I asked that question. And basically, soccer's young. So that that was the answer. And I got then I realized they're right. We're they're still their system's still in development. The European systems have been in for ages, right? So they were getting the athletes. We're getting athletes in our system now at 14 and 15, but they need to be in a 10 or 12, which is true. And so I think that's the difference. So yeah, give it a moment and you'll see better results.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think we can we'll we'll wrap back up rounds of like the local level stuff because I really want to talk about that too. Just real quick. Also, did you see at the world championship numbers are about to finalize? Some of those divisions are pretty big. We're looking at almost 90 people. Yeah, let me tell you real quick and then we can hop on. So we're looking at 54 has 70, 58 has 91, 63 has 85, 68 has 86, 74 has 73. Which one's small? 68 is usually the biggest. I know right now 68 sit sitting at uh 86. So it's not that much. 58's bigger is 91 for 58. And then on the the girl side, the numbers are still pretty high. I think the biggest one looks like 57 has 62. Um I think it's a I think it's a big turnover on the guy's side. I think some of those numbers in the 90s, I mean, when's the last tournament? What does that start at? Round the 120 something? Well, I think that 90s 90s is pretty big, you know.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's it's pretty consistent for like some of those bigger divisions, but I think you have a huge Asian uh in Europe population, you know. Um, I'll be curious to see how many Central, North, North, Central, and South American countries go. Yeah, we can dive into the next year a little bit. Let's talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it sounds like we sounds like we kicked this can as much as we can kick it today. And TJ, I don't know, man. It was pretty good, pretty organized. I think blue suits you. I'm gonna start calling you blue TJ instead of bronze TJ. So it's not a common common like that. But great work today, gentlemen. We'll pick this up against next week, and TJ will be the master of ceremonies. With that, this has been the warehouse 15, and we are out.
unknown:Cool.
SPEAKER_02:Good work.